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Old 11-01-2017, 11:04 AM
 
372 posts, read 239,833 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
Do you mean the VAST Barstow market? I don't think so.
Driving time: Barstow to Ontario California International Airport ONT 1hr 20 min 79 mi
Barstow to Ivanpah 2 hr 18 min 158 mi. Perhaps you mean the VAST Baker market.
Everything is up for grabs.
You're using existing technology to relate to a future where new technology will change everything. In addition to the well-known HyperLoop (taking place in NLV's Apex Industrial Park), there are others, one a 200 mph driverless pod-car that will not only leapfrog everything else, it will reduce the need for having airports for anything but long-distance travel.
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Old 11-01-2017, 11:06 AM
 
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Here's the real reason Ivanpah was canceled.
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Old 11-01-2017, 11:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruff View Post
Simply the bust. Don't complicate things unnecessarily. Was going to be a big expenditure and they simply ducked. The suit at worst was a few million to recover costs.

I would think development of the Ivanpah Valley will be a big deal if and when it happens. But that won't happen without the airport or some transportation option. And the area really has no utilities other than electric.
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Old 11-01-2017, 12:04 PM
 
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The official reason for canceling Ivanpah was that demand had decreased because of the recession, hence no need.
Here's the real reason.
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Old 11-01-2017, 12:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruff View Post
The official reason for canceling Ivanpah was that demand had decreased because of the recession, hence no need.
Here's the real reason.
Nope. A minor problem. Not a showstopper. Almost certainly gone in a couple of years.
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Old 11-01-2017, 01:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Development of the Ivanpah Valley won't happen without the airport or some transportation option. And the area really has no utilities other than electric.
Today, airports are magnets the way ports were yesterday, so build the airport and they will come. As I mentioned earlier, there's already a major interstate and rail link and a lot of room for just about anything else, including Hyperloop (if it actually happens).

As for utilities, electricity can be manufactured, and if there's no (or not enough) water underground, Primm should be the southern terminus of that proposed northern NV pipeline.
How green is (y)our valley.
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Old 11-01-2017, 01:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruff View Post
Today, airports are magnets the way ports were yesterday, so build the airport and they will come. As I mentioned earlier, there's already a major interstate and rail link and a lot of room for just about anything else, including Hyperloop (if it actually happens).

As for utilities, electricity can be manufactured, and if there's no (or not enough) water underground, Primm should be the southern terminus of that proposed northern NV pipeline.
How green is (y)our valley.
Water will have to come from Las Vegas. There is local water but not enough to support serious development. Las Vegas has sufficient water but you need to pipe it out there. Same with gas and sewers. There is strong resistance to allowing any form of dense development without sewers. You can build low density and run off wells and septic...but as soon as you talk tract or commercial you got to do sewers.

Electricity would be readily available. Everything else will cost enough that only the airport would enable it to be run. That is why you don't see any significant tract development in the area. The land in say Sandy Valley is dirt cheap. But you cannot build at any density because of the utilities.
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Old 11-01-2017, 03:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Everything else (other than power) will cost enough that only the airport would enable it to be run. That is why you don't see any significant tract development in the area. The land in say Sandy Valley is dirt cheap. But you cannot build at any density because of the utilities.
Are you actually privy to studies and impact studies that preclude development other than the airport, or is this just hot desert air?
It's thinking like this that keeps us groveling while the rest of the world is thriving. Case in point for making the desert bloom and the economy roar: Dubai.
Relocate McCarran and it will attract money, people, and water.

Last edited by Bruff; 11-01-2017 at 03:51 PM..
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Old 11-01-2017, 03:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruff View Post
Are you actually privy to studies and impact studies that preclude development other than the airport, or is this just hot desert air?
It's thinking like this that keeps us groveling while the rest of the world is thriving. Case in point for making the desert bloom and the economy roar: Dubai.
I was a Director of the Northwest Citizens from the late 90s until 2005 or so. Attended many meeting and discussions about development of open BLM land. My personal interest were in the NW and what happened there but also got involved with some of the SW people as they tried to organize.

There are reports on the Airport Development of some substance if you dig around a bit. The general stuff on tract development on BLM land is pretty much generic. Attend a few dozen hearings on the subject of outlying development and you will get a reasonable view. You might also check some of the Clark County documents in planning which get into this stuff. I don't know if there is much active as the area out past Jean dropped from interest after stopping the airport development. I got involved a little bit recently on the selling of a property in Sandy Valley. But it was not a thing for me as I think it required someone with more local skill in the area.
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Old 11-01-2017, 04:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruff View Post
DIA cost $4.8B in 1995. That's $7.5B today. Even adding the $1B for high-speed maglev, you're still a little off.
If single 10-20 gate terminals are coming in at $2.5 billion, $7.5 billion isn't getting you an entire from scratch major international airport.

What's your scale for this airport? McCarran is has four runways in two parallel close set groups. It also has 110 gates. What's your design for the new airport. Keep in mind, the justification for Ivanpah was the McCarran is going to reach capacity. So it really can't be justified as an equal replacement, it has to be bigger. So what four parallel runways, in two pairs (a la LAX or ATL before the fifth.), with two parallel wide spaced crosswinders? 125 gates to start. I don't know if that'll fit into one terminal complex, so maybe two. A major cargo facility. All the necessary infrastructure (ATC, fuel, firefighting, water, sewer, etc.) Major ground transportation facilities, including the aforementions high speed rail into Vegas proper, car rental, parking, etc.. I'm sure I'm forgetting something. Anyone but Bruff see this as coming in less than $15 billion, maybe more like 20.

Here's a link to an article discussing the original Ivanpah plan (the two runway reliever.) It puts the cost of that at $10 billion. A full on expanded replacement could easily be double that.

http://collinkrum.kinja.com/what-hap...irp-1727901405

Quote:

@And a lot of what your are calling strengths are irrelevant, spurious or both.

Such as...?

@There's no shortage of land to build in Vegas, even on or around the strip.

"Virgin Heavy, cleared to land in the Fountainbleu parking lot". I don't think so. Try to remember, the point of the exercise is not to build in or even around Vegas. Outside Vegas like, say, Ivanpah?
Don't be stupid. I'm not talking about putting the airport there. What I'm saying is that if anyone wanted to do major resort development, there's not only land available for it, it's almost begging for it. There are a number of holes to fill, no one needs the land that McCarran sits on for new resort development (or anything else, really.)
Quote:

@A whole flight of new resorts were planned pre-2008 crash, without getting rid of McCarren, that never got built.

Completely irrelevant.
It's hugely relevant to the value of the land that closing McCarran would put on the market, which is key to the financial viability of the project.
Quote:

@All that land hitting the market simultaneously would probably depress the LV real estate market (a fact with current property owners know, and would have them blocking the project.)

Markets have a way of working things out. Sounds like a gold rush to me.
Maybe, but to everyone else, it sounds like a colossal waste of money.
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