[Bruff]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior

This explains many of your posts.

Glad you agree.

[Bruff]

Originally Posted by lvmensch

There is a mid 200X report that Ivanpah would cost 7 billion. I would also observe that none of the reports on Ivanpah considered it a replacement for McCarran. All see it as an extension. Long haul charters and freight. Never growing even to the present McCarran volume.

Mensh, you're right, Ivanpah was only considered for long-haul charters and freight. But why stop there when it provides an opportunity to do things right.
Why not do your own SWOT (Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, Threats) Analysis and see what you come up with.

Heres mine:
Strengths
Remove threat of major incident
Remove noise and air pollution
Site already acquired - 6,000 acres w/ 17,000 in reserve from BLM
Will effect nearly every property and add billions to LV's bottom line
Adjacent to both highway and rail
15 miles from Cal state line -- close enough to serve the vast Southern California market while offering Nevada's more business-friendly tax and environmental laws.
Can build longer (15,000-feet) runways for largest aircraft
Demographics: skilled local workforce.
Local workforce also appropriately skilled for distribution / manual jobs.
Transport Infrastructure: existing transport infrastructure (1-15) speeds delivery and reduces cost.
Proximity to established centers: located in proximity to LV market. Established land values: high-value area compared with current developments
Existing utility network available: reduction in cost.
EIA nearly completed
60 miles (30 x 2) of prime, undeveloped land on both sides of the road.
Incentive for third lane on 1-15 and high-speed rail connector

Weaknesses
Time to build (7 yrs?)

Opportunities
Learn from mistakes: do it right
Create new area southwest of Vegas – support housing growth and job creation. Sustainability: opportunity to make this an exemplary development across all sectors. Public sector support and investment: potential for private ownership.
Rebuild Las Vegas. UNLV expansion, central park
Size: potential for world-class design.
Ownership: Clark County paid $21 million for the 6,000-acre Ivanpah site in 2002.
The BLM set aside another 17,000 acres for compatible development

Threats
Global economic conditions: private investor demand may be impacted.
LV may not grow at the rate predicted.
Environmental: potential threat to vegetation and wildlife, but the risk is not considered to be high.

What would you add (or take away)?

[OmegaSupreme]

Ivanpah won't replace LAS

It is designed to alleviate some of the traffic

LAS is unique as it is essentially part of the heart of the city, but I don't see it moving

[Bruff]

Originally Posted by OmegaSupreme

Ivanpah won't replace LAS

Sure will!

It is designed to alleviate some of the traffic

It isn't even 'designed'. It will be designed to do whatever 'we' want (hopefully, replace LAS).

LAS is unique as it is essentially part of the heart of the city, but I don't see it moving

It's an airport that, like Stapleton, has had its day. It needs to take a hike (to Ivanpah).

[BBMW]

You forgot a HUGE weakness, cost which would likely be around $20 billion.

And a lot of what your are calling strengths are irrelevant, spurious or both. There's no shortage of land to build in Vegas, even on or around the strip. A whole flight of new resorts were planned pre-2008 crash, without getting rid of McCarren, that never got built. There are still missing teeth on the strip itself. The Fontainebleau site, the old Frontier site, the former Rock in Rio site. At least Resorts World seems to be firing up again. And there are other underutilized sites on the strip that could be recycled. In point of fact, all that land hitting the market simultaneously would probably depress the LV real estate market (a fact with current property owners know, and would have them blocking the project.)

Originally Posted by Bruff

Mensh, you're right, Ivanpah was only considered for long-haul charters and freight. But why stop there when it provides an opportunity to do things right.
Why not do your own SWOT (Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, Threats) Analysis and see what you come up with.

Heres mine:
Strengths
Remove threat of major incident
Remove noise and air pollution
Site already acquired - 6,000 acres w/ 17,000 in reserve from BLM
Will effect nearly every property and add billions to LV's bottom line
Adjacent to both highway and rail
15 miles from Cal state line -- close enough to serve the vast Southern California market while offering Nevada's more business-friendly tax and environmental laws.
Can build longer (15,000-feet) runways for largest aircraft
Demographics: skilled local workforce.
Local workforce also appropriately skilled for distribution / manual jobs.
Transport Infrastructure: existing transport infrastructure (1-15) speeds delivery and reduces cost.
Proximity to established centers: located in proximity to LV market. Established land values: high-value area compared with current developments
Existing utility network available: reduction in cost.
EIA nearly completed
60 miles (30 x 2) of prime, undeveloped land on both sides of the road.
Incentive for third lane on 1-15 and high-speed rail connector

Weaknesses
Time to build (7 yrs?)

Opportunities
Learn from mistakes: do it right
Create new area southwest of Vegas – support housing growth and job creation. Sustainability: opportunity to make this an exemplary development across all sectors. Public sector support and investment: potential for private ownership.
Rebuild Las Vegas. UNLV expansion, central park
Size: potential for world-class design.
Ownership: Clark County paid $21 million for the 6,000-acre Ivanpah site in 2002.
The BLM set aside another 17,000 acres for compatible development

Threats
Global economic conditions: private investor demand may be impacted.
LV may not grow at the rate predicted.
Environmental: potential threat to vegetation and wildlife, but the risk is not considered to be high.

What would you add (or take away)?

[Bruff]

Originally Posted by BBMW

You forgot a HUGE weakness, cost which would likely be around $20 billion.

DIA cost $4.8B in 1995. That's $7.5B today. Even adding the $1B for high-speed maglev, you're still a little off.

@And a lot of what your are calling strengths are irrelevant, spurious or both.

Such as...?

@There's no shortage of land to build in Vegas, even on or around the strip.

"Virgin Heavy, cleared to land in the Fountainbleu parking lot". I don't think so. Try to remember, the point of the exercise is not to build in or even around Vegas. Outside Vegas like, say, Ivanpah?

@A whole flight of new resorts were planned pre-2008 crash, without getting rid of McCarren, that never got built.

Completely irrelevant.

@All that land hitting the market simultaneously would probably depress the LV real estate market (a fact with current property owners know, and would have them blocking the project.)

Markets have a way of working things out. Sounds like a gold rush to me.

[Willy702]

Originally Posted by Bruff

Mensh, you're right, Ivanpah was only considered for long-haul charters and freight. But why stop there when it provides an opportunity to do things right.
Why not do your own SWOT (Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, Threats) Analysis and see what you come up with.

Heres mine:
Strengths
Remove threat of major incident
Remove noise and air pollution
Site already acquired - 6,000 acres w/ 17,000 in reserve from BLM
Will effect nearly every property and add billions to LV's bottom line
Adjacent to both highway and rail
15 miles from Cal state line -- close enough to serve the vast Southern California market while offering Nevada's more business-friendly tax and environmental laws.
Can build longer (15,000-feet) runways for largest aircraft
Demographics: skilled local workforce.
Local workforce also appropriately skilled for distribution / manual jobs.
Transport Infrastructure: existing transport infrastructure (1-15) speeds delivery and reduces cost.
Proximity to established centers: located in proximity to LV market. Established land values: high-value area compared with current developments
Existing utility network available: reduction in cost.
EIA nearly completed
60 miles (30 x 2) of prime, undeveloped land on both sides of the road.
Incentive for third lane on 1-15 and high-speed rail connector

Weaknesses
Time to build (7 yrs?)

Opportunities
Learn from mistakes: do it right
Create new area southwest of Vegas – support housing growth and job creation. Sustainability: opportunity to make this an exemplary development across all sectors. Public sector support and investment: potential for private ownership.
Rebuild Las Vegas. UNLV expansion, central park
Size: potential for world-class design.
Ownership: Clark County paid $21 million for the 6,000-acre Ivanpah site in 2002.
The BLM set aside another 17,000 acres for compatible development

Threats
Global economic conditions: private investor demand may be impacted.
LV may not grow at the rate predicted.
Environmental: potential threat to vegetation and wildlife, but the risk is not considered to be high.

What would you add (or take away)?

What about millions of fewer visits to Vegas if they have to go to Ivanpah first? Where does that one fit in your handy SWOT chart?

[Cold Warrior]

15 miles from Cal state line -- close enough to serve the vast Southern California market

Do you mean the VAST Barstow market? I don't think so.

Driving time:

Barstow to Ontario California International Airport ONT 1hr 20 min 79 mi

Barstow to Ivanpah 2 hr 18 min 158 mi

Perhaps you mean the VAST Baker market.

[Bruff]

Willy, c'mon.
Why would there be "millions of fewer visits?" I say there will be millions more.
If your argument is 'proximity' (distance), you're out of date. Time is the new dimension. And aggravation.
Have you ever been stuck navigating that can of worms getting into McCarran?
Like, who hasn't? Everyone spends their first few attempts on a merry-go-round that consumes time and increases aggravation.
Starting anew will give us a chance to get it right.
As for getting to and from, the Shanghai Maglev takes 8 minutes for 20 miles. The New McCarran will be that same 20 miles.
All aboard!

[lvmensch]

Originally Posted by Bruff

Willy, c'mon.
Why would there be "millions of fewer visits?" I say there will be millions more.
If your argument is 'proximity' (distance), you're out of date. Time is the new dimension. And aggravation.
Have you ever been stuck navigating that can of worms getting into McCarran?
Like, who hasn't? Everyone spends their first few attempts on a merry-go-round that consumes time and increases aggravation.
Starting anew will give us a chance to get it right.
As for getting to and from, the Shanghai Maglev takes 8 minutes for 20 miles. The New McCarran will be that same 20 miles.
All aboard!

Actually I would think it would have a negative impact. McCarran is simply very convenient. And most tourists don't have any problems except the queue for cabs. And that is very likely to be replicated if you move the airport. In fact likely to happen twice. In fact that would be the problem with any remote airport...you end up with a new piece of transportation between the airport and the strip.

The impact may be small...but you will not really find out until you build it and they don't come.

You aware of anyone who has replicated the Shanghai Maglev? Been around a while now and I don't know of one. I think you are also a little shy on the run to Ivanpah. More like 30 miles. If it was going to happen I would think a Maglev with a view of the city would be just the thing. You could even feature it as a wonder of Las Vegas.