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Old 01-13-2019, 09:24 PM
 
2,545 posts, read 2,585,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 08grad View Post
Supply and demand. Offer a higher salary and you'll find an American willing to work that position.

Instead, our government (controlled by businesses) intervenes in that free market, allowing these companies to find foreign labor to increase demand and keep wages low.

The result is a generation of people around 30 that aren't married, don't plan on having children, and cannot purchase a starter home, because the "government" killed the 60k/year job so their parents could live a marginally higher quality of life.
NOT ENOUGH GRADUATES in the Nursing field and Tech Sector here in the United States, why would a company or hospital go through all the trouble of hiring a personnel from clear across the world if they have the option to hire someone locally.

As far as wages, Nursing Unions negotiate contract, wages and benefits for ALL its member nurses. Im sure the same for the tech industry.

 
Old 01-13-2019, 09:35 PM
 
1,739 posts, read 3,104,847 times
Reputation: 1850
There are no tech unions. And yes, H1B drives down tech wages. I was at MGM Mirage's IT department for a meeting and I saw some of the legally required postings in their break room area for some of the H1B positions they were hiring. It indicated the position, experience required, and wages. The wages they were offering (and "couldn't find qualified staff", thus they needed H1B to fill the position) were around 20-25% under market for the position and experience they were requesting.

I know, because I've been involved in the hiring process for very similar positions and the salary.com data was also matching the 20-25% higher numbers.

Business as usual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarkcty View Post
As far as wages, Nursing Unions negotiate contract, wages and benefits for ALL its member nurses. Im sure the same for the tech industry.
 
Old 01-13-2019, 09:47 PM
 
2,545 posts, read 2,585,597 times
Reputation: 1372
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestieJeff View Post
There are no tech unions. And yes, H1B drives down tech wages. I was at MGM Mirage's IT department for a meeting and I saw some of the legally required postings in their break room area for some of the H1B positions they were hiring. It indicated the position, experience required, and wages. The wages they were offering (and "couldn't find qualified staff", thus they needed H1B to fill the position) were around 20-25% under market for the position and experience they were requesting.

I know, because I've been involved in the hiring process for very similar positions and the salary.com data was also matching the 20-25% higher numbers.

Business as usual.
Not enough graduates in the United States and don't blame the foreign workers for the DISCRIMINATION in Wages. That is something beyond their control.
 
Old 01-13-2019, 09:51 PM
 
454 posts, read 180,718 times
Reputation: 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarkcty View Post
NOT ENOUGH GRADUATES in the Nursing field and Tech Sector here in the United States, why would a company or hospital go through all the trouble of hiring a personnel from clear across the world if they have the option to hire someone locally.

As far as wages, Nursing Unions negotiate contract, wages and benefits for ALL its member nurses. Im sure the same for the tech industry.
Because it's cheaper to hire an H1-B long term. It is well known that H1-Bs are typically paid less than their domestic counterparts. Also, the H1-B will typically do literally anything the hosting company wants because their continued residency depends on that company's continued sponsorship. It's modern indentured servitude.

There are no unions in tech. IT is an extremely dog eat dog field - much moreso than I think that most realize. 90% of new grad IT workers quit in the first 3 years, never to return to the industry, because they realize they will never hack it in the industry.
 
Old 01-13-2019, 09:57 PM
 
2,545 posts, read 2,585,597 times
Reputation: 1372
Quote:
Originally Posted by equid0x View Post
Because it's cheaper to hire an H1-B long term. It is well known that H1-Bs are typically paid less than their domestic counterparts. Also, the H1-B will typically do literally anything the hosting company wants because their continued residency depends on that company's continued sponsorship. It's modern indentured servitude.

There are no unions in tech. IT is an extremely dog eat dog field - much moreso than I think that most realize. 90% of new grad IT workers quit in the first 3 years, never to return to the industry, because they realize they will never hack it in the industry.
Again, there are not enough citizens and legal immigrants in the United States taking up IT. The discrimination in wages is not the foreign workers fault and the lack of interest in IT here in the United States is not their fault either. So quit demonizing foreign legal workers especially if their local counterparts CANNOT do the job as you mentioned.
 
Old 01-13-2019, 09:57 PM
 
454 posts, read 180,718 times
Reputation: 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarkcty View Post
Not enough graduates in the United States and don't blame the foreign workers for the DISCRIMINATION in Wages. That is something beyond their control.
It's not discrimination. The disparity in cost of living dictates that foreign salaries will necessarily be lower than in the US. It's the same basic economics some on this board keep rambling about.

H1-Bs receive an offer prior to employment it's typically take it or leave it and very generous by foreign standards so most will take it. Keep in mind, the end goal is to get that green card and move their family to the US or to send all their earnings back home and live like Kings there. Very few of these types are interested in the US as anything more than a piggy bank.
 
Old 01-13-2019, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Henderson, NV
482 posts, read 373,140 times
Reputation: 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by EA View Post
You made my whole point right there and crap on your own argument. You can't sit here making 6 figures on the verge of early retirement with a paid off house telling us how hard it is for people these days to make 6 figures and buy a house.
I got lucky with an investment on Bitcoin in 2016 that I sold in December 2018. The average person my age hasn't see their investment portfolio go up 30x in two years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EA View Post
I personally know 4 people making 6 figures programming with no degree. Only one has college experience. She went for music engineering and dropped out 2 years in. No degree. Self taught programmer making 6 figures.

I did 80k last year so, hi. And you say you did 6 figures. If I get their permission I will gladly name several Vegas members of this site that make 60k or more. I saw one member's w2 for 2017. They made 137,000
I can name dozens of Vegas locals making 60K plus. Every journeyman in the city is making 40 an hour plus benefits.
NAXALT. For example, my salary is probably higher than 90% of teachers in America. Doesn't mean that I can't recognize that the vast majority of teachers are underpaid for the crap they have to deal with.

Tell me what profession I can advise my students to go into that pays $40/hour + benefits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EA View Post
Nope. It's like freedom. If you put limits on freedom or supply and demand, you kill it.
So any time demand is lowered, supply and demand doesn't exist anymore? Where are you getting this definition from? Since we put limits on supply of homes through zoning and expensive permits, is supply and demand "killed" for real estate? Should a government open up the market internationally if it is detrimental to the citizens of the country? The residents of the UK said "no"... but it's clear that their opinions don't matter, since we're 2.5 years since Brexit and they're not leaving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EA View Post
So what you're saying is democrats are evil and intentionally driving up housing costs for their own gain?

And good lord, the wrong that's in that second part. Can you imagine NYC or LA or San Fran if all the housing was single family homes? It would never work. You do not know what you're talking about.
It's not the "Democrats". The Democrats don't control this country. Neither do the Republicans. Political parties are just tools by those in control to keep the population mad at each other, while the rich keep getting richer.

Voting doesn't even matter. When the federal government didn't protect California's border in the 80s-90s, they voted for Proposition 187 to stop giving illegal immigrants free schools and free healthcare. After it passes by a wide margin, the government refuses to implement it. I like Twain's quote of "If voting made any difference, they wouldn't let us do it."

Quote:
Originally Posted by EA View Post
The point you seemed to miss is life got expensive not because of some daffy generation but because we're paying for all these advancements. We're paying for all these social safety nets because morons can't figure out that having in demand skills = making money.
House prices aren't going up because we're paying for handouts to Boomers and the poor. House prices are going up because we have more people here due to open immigration, while restricting the housing supply.

Salaries aren't going down because we're paying for handouts to Boomers and the poor. Salaries are going down because we have more people competing for the same jobs, allowing companies to lower salaries for their candidates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EA View Post
37% is way too high. The government has been shut down for 3 weeks and our lives haven't changed a bit. There's absolutely positively no reason for ANYONE in this country to be paying income tax. At all. Ever.

When takes were absurdly high, that is when America got all the tax loopholes because the people making that kind of money found it cheaper to bribe the government to make the loopholes than it is to pay the insane taxes.

I don't know about you, but I'm doing everything in my power to avoid paying taxes because every penny the government takes is wasted and I do not support a single thing they do just like I don't support the theft that is taxation.
The government isn't shut down. Social security checks are still being mailed out. Medicare and Medicaid coverage is still continuing. Food stamps are still being funded. The border is still being "protected". Post office is still operating. Airline travel is still operating as the FAA, TSA, and ATC are still working.

We both live in a state without income tax. Clearly it's not necessary to fund a government without income tax. However, if we don't fund our defense, we won't have a country. What other way would you suggest we fund our defense?
 
Old 01-13-2019, 10:00 PM
 
2,545 posts, read 2,585,597 times
Reputation: 1372
Quote:
Originally Posted by equid0x View Post
It's not discrimination. The disparity in cost of living dictates that foreign salaries will necessarily be lower than in the US. It's the same basic economics some on this board keep rambling about.

H1-Bs receive an offer prior to employment it's typically take it or leave it and very generous by foreign standards so most will take it. Keep in mind, the end goal is to get that green card and move their family to the US or to send all their earnings back home and live like Kings there. Very few of these types are interested in the US as anything more than a piggy bank.
It is discrimination! These foreign workers have bills to pay in US Dollars, they reside in the United States, pay the same amount for their utility bills, grocery bills. their rent......their bills here are not in the currency of their home country. What they do with what is left of their salary is none of your business!
 
Old 01-13-2019, 10:06 PM
 
454 posts, read 180,718 times
Reputation: 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarkcty View Post
Again, there are not enough citizens and legal immigrants in the United States taking up IT. The discrimination in wages is not the foreign workers fault and the lack of interest in IT here in the United States is not their fault either. So quit demonizing foreign legal workers especially if their local counterparts CANNOT do the job as you mentioned.
I would like to see anything that backs your claim that there is a lack of interest in IT in the US, and that there are not enough US citizens taking up IT. I hired for 2 separate shifts at my last gig in IT and had no problem finding applicants from the US. In fact, everyone working there was a US born citizen until we got bought out by the multinational and forced to offshore work and hire H1-Bs.
 
Old 01-13-2019, 10:12 PM
 
454 posts, read 180,718 times
Reputation: 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by 08grad View Post
Voting doesn't even matter. When the federal government didn't protect California's border in the 80s-90s, they voted for Proposition 187 to stop giving illegal immigrants free schools and free healthcare. After it passes by a wide margin, the government refuses to implement it. I like Twain's quote of "If voting made any difference, they wouldn't let us do it."
To me, this exemplifies the entire problem that has occurred since the Boomers took power. There is no longer rule of law. The people keep speaking and passing these measures to protect the interests of the US citizen, and the elected representatives simply decide they if they don't like that decision, they will pass and then ignore/refuse to enforce/refuse to fund.

Same thing going on right now with the shutdown. The bill to "build the wall" was passed in 2006, but congress refuses to fund it. Again, "we don't like it so we will just ignore it." This has become a significant trend since the turn of the century.
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