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Old 07-02-2019, 11:37 AM
 
2,136 posts, read 524,377 times
Reputation: 3724

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EA View Post
Wonder post, Rational. I need to spread rep before I can rep you again though
Right back at you, EA.
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Old 07-02-2019, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
352 posts, read 248,679 times
Reputation: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by EA View Post
They're broke because they don't understand economics, budgeting, or capitalism.

Want to make a lot of money? Learn how to do something people value and need.

It's really pretty simple.

Want to not be broke? Pay attention to what you spend and live within your means.
If you make 8 bucks an hour maybe don't buy a 7 dollar coffee every day along with $300 outfits.
This is such a ignorant thing to say. Let me do some basic math for you since you clearly cannot do it yourself:

Let's say you make a decent wage of $15/hr. You work full-time, 40 hours a week for all 52 weeks since you don't accrue paid vacation time thanks to being hourly. That's 2080 hours a year. So after taxes, you're making about 2,200/mo. Let's break down standard bills for regular people:
Car Payment: $150
Car Insurance: $60
Car Gas: $80
Car Maintenance/Registration: $75
Cable/Internet: $75
Cell Phone: $75
Water: $40
Garbage: $45
Gas: $20
Electric: $100
Doctor's Visits/Copays: $30
Personal Grooming: $25
Gym Membership: $35

So after just those things, we're down to $1,500 already with no food, rent, entertainment or savings. Plus, we are also excluding medical insurance.
Let's assume cheap rent: $1,000
That leaves $500 for food, entertainment, savings and medical insurance.
Let's assume a really light diet of only $10/day
That leaves $200 for insurance, entertainment and savings. But since average cost of premiums is well over $400/mo, this person is under water, can't save and ends up in the debt cycle by having to charge to credit cards just to get by. How can they move up the career ladder if they literally cannot afford to live? They can't take on debt for college if they can't even get by as it is.
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Old 07-02-2019, 11:47 AM
 
2,136 posts, read 524,377 times
Reputation: 3724
Getting back to the topic of the thread...

Perhaps it would help if resorts -- up front during the reservation process -- if resorts disclosed in big, capital letters "you will also be responsible for paying $XX for parking a car if you have one, $YY as a 'resort fee', and $ZZ for other stuff" or words to that effect.

Most people are interested in the projected total cost of their stay. The following website has some data that may prove useful:

https://www.lasvegasjaunt.com/resort-fees/
As of January 2019, the following resorts/hotels in Las Vegas do not charge a resort fee:

Americas Best Value Inn
Casino Royale Best Western Plus
Desert Rose Resort
Four Queens
Lucky club
Marriott Las Vegas
La Quinta Inn & Suites
Residence Inn
Red Roof Inn
Royal Resort
Travelodge Center Strip
WorldMark Las Vegas Blvd
WorldMark Tropicana
Wyndham Desert Blue
Wyndham Grand Desert
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Old 07-02-2019, 11:52 AM
 
10,907 posts, read 9,316,798 times
Reputation: 6591
Get rid of the cable/internet. Shop down the cell to minimum. Get a $6-700 apartment, with some of the utilities (gas, garbage,water) included. The car payment is either too little (get a beater for cash) of you'd have to pay more to get something worth a loan for.

Your numbers have some squeeze in them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HedgeYourInvestments View Post
This is such a ignorant thing to say. Let me do some basic math for you since you clearly cannot do it yourself:

Let's say you make a decent wage of $15/hr. You work full-time, 40 hours a week for all 52 weeks since you don't accrue paid vacation time thanks to being hourly. That's 2080 hours a year. So after taxes, you're making about 2,200/mo. Let's break down standard bills for regular people:
Car Payment: $150
Car Insurance: $60
Car Gas: $80
Car Maintenance/Registration: $75
Cable/Internet: $75
Cell Phone: $75
Water: $40
Garbage: $45
Gas: $20
Electric: $100
Doctor's Visits/Copays: $30
Personal Grooming: $25
Gym Membership: $35

So after just those things, we're down to $1,500 already with no food, rent, entertainment or savings. Plus, we are also excluding medical insurance.
Let's assume cheap rent: $1,000
That leaves $500 for food, entertainment, savings and medical insurance.
Let's assume a really light diet of only $10/day
That leaves $200 for insurance, entertainment and savings. But since average cost of premiums is well over $400/mo, this person is under water, can't save and ends up in the debt cycle by having to charge to credit cards just to get by. How can they move up the career ladder if they literally cannot afford to live? They can't take on debt for college if they can't even get by as it is.
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Old 07-02-2019, 12:00 PM
EA
 
Location: Las Vegas
6,178 posts, read 5,200,969 times
Reputation: 6844
Quote:
Originally Posted by HedgeYourInvestments View Post
This is such a ignorant thing to say. Let me do some basic math for you since you clearly cannot do it yourself:

Let's say you make a decent wage of $15/hr. You work full-time, 40 hours a week for all 52 weeks since you don't accrue paid vacation time thanks to being hourly. That's 2080 hours a year. So after taxes, you're making about 2,200/mo. Let's break down standard bills for regular people:
Car Payment: $150
Car Insurance: $60
Car Gas: $80
Car Maintenance/Registration: $75
Cable/Internet: $75
Cell Phone: $75
Water: $40
Garbage: $45
Gas: $20
Electric: $100
Doctor's Visits/Copays: $30
Personal Grooming: $25
Gym Membership: $35

So after just those things, we're down to $1,500 already with no food, rent, entertainment or savings. Plus, we are also excluding medical insurance.
Let's assume cheap rent: $1,000
That leaves $500 for food, entertainment, savings and medical insurance.
Let's assume a really light diet of only $10/day
That leaves $200 for insurance, entertainment and savings. But since average cost of premiums is well over $400/mo, this person is under water, can't save and ends up in the debt cycle by having to charge to credit cards just to get by. How can they move up the career ladder if they literally cannot afford to live? They can't take on debt for college if they can't even get by as it is.

Well, number one, 15 isn't a decent wage. Number 2 why are you financing a car with 15 an hour?
Cricket has cellphones for 30 a month.
You don't need cable or internet. You have a phone.
Why are you living on your own at 15 an hour? Get a roommate.
My personal grooming costs me about 10 bucks a month. Deodorant, shampoo, toothpaste. I cut my own hair.
Why do you have a gym membership at 15 an hour?
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Old 07-02-2019, 12:09 PM
 
484 posts, read 120,910 times
Reputation: 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalExpectations View Post
Merry Lee, with all respect, what is the point of your post? Is it that some are doing well while others are not? Something else?

I wasn't going to respond, thinking you're just posting hyperbole for effect. Then I realized you actually believe much of the hyperbole. (Much? Most? All???)

Let's look at some actual, you know, data, shall we? Just for fun?

Here we go:



Incorrect. The actual, you know, data show otherwise. It's not even close.

Actual Hours Worked Per Worker, OECD

China 2392
Singapore 2296
Mexico 2250
S. Korea 2070
Greece 2035
India 1974
Chile 1970
Russia 1974
Poland 1928
Latvia 1910
Israel 1889
Iceland 1883
Ireland 1879
Estonia 1855
Portugal 1842
United States 1781
Czech Republic 1770
… …
OECD Average 1763

Here's a different OECD source which ranks countries slightly differently:

Actual Hours Worked Per Worker, OECD

Mexico 2255
Costa Rica 2212
S. Korea 2069
Greece 2035
Chile 1974
Russia 1974
Poland 1928
Latvia 1910
Israel 1889
Lithuania 1885
Iceland 1883
Ireland 1879
Estonia 1855
Portugal 1842
United States 1783
Czech Republic 1770
… …
OECD Average 1763




Incorrect.

Per Capita GDP (PPP) Per Hour Worked

Norway 75.08
Luxembourg 73.22
United States 67.32
Belgium 60.98



Hmmm. Nope.

Percentage of workers who take all/almost all of their holiday & vacation leave

UK 75%
Germany 71%
France 62%
China 61%
Thailand 61%
Indonesia 54%
Singapore 49%
Sweden 46%
USA 44%
Australia 43%

… the rest of the world is below 43%




Incorrect. Not even close.

GNP is not the best measure of national wealth. GDP is better. GDP per Capita is much better. Even better still is GDP per capita PPP, where PPP stands for Purchasing Power Parity. Purchasing power parity (PPP) is a way of measuring economic variables in different countries so that irrelevant exchange rate variations do not distort comparisons.

Let's look at this several ways:

Median wealth per adult, in US dollars.

Iceland $203,847
Australia $191,453
Switzerland $183,339
Luxembourg $164,284
Belgium $163,429
Netherlands $114,935
France $106,827
Canada $106,342
Japan $103,861
New Zealand $98,613
UK $97,169
Singapore $91,656
Spain $87,188
Norway $80,054
Italy $79,239
Taiwan $78,177
Malta $76,116
Ireland $72,473
Australia $70,074
South Korea $65,463
United States $61,667
Denmark $60,999

Mean wealth per adult, in US dollars.

Iceland $555,726
Switzerland $530,244
Luxembourg $412,127
Australia $411,060
United States $403,974
Belgium $313,045

List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita (IMF data)

Qatar $130,475
Macau $116,808
Luxembourg $106,705
Singapore $100,345
Brunei $79,530
Ireland $78,785
Norway $74,356
UAE $69,382
Kuwait $67,000
Switzerland $64,649
Hong Kong $64,216
United States $62,606
San Marino $60,313

List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita (World Bank data)

Qatar $128,378
Macau $115,123
Luxembourg $103,662
Singapore $98,905
Brunei $78,836
Ireland $76,305
UAE $73,879
Kuwait $71,943
Switzerland $65,006
San Marino $62,425
Hong Kong $61,540
Norway $60,978
United States $59,532
Saudi Arabia $53,845



Incorrect. Not even close.

Ratio of Average Income of the richest 10% to the poorest 10%

Namibia 106.6
Bolivia 93.9
Sierra Leone 87.2
Central African Republic 69.2
Colombia 60.4
Honduras 59.4
Haiti 54.4
Panama 49.9
Niger 46
Botswana 43
Paraguay 43
El Salvador 39.8
Ecuador 38.8
Guatemala 38.6
South Africa 35.2
Argentina 33.9
Nicaragua 33.1
Chile 31.6
Peru 31
Dominican Rep. 26.2
Eswatini 25.1
Papua New Guinea 23.8
Costa Rica 23.4
Malaysia 22.1
China 21.6
Mexico 21.6
Gambia 20.2
Burundi 19.3
Madagascar 19.2
Guinea-Bissau 19
Mozambique 18.8
Venezuela 18.8
Rwanda 18.6
United States 18.5
Hong Kong 17.8




The recession sucked. No doubt about it. But you are incorrect in your assertion. The Great Depression was worse - much, much, worse.



The highest rate of U.S. unemployment was 24.9% in 1933, during the Great Depression. Unemployment was more than 14% from 1931 to 1940. In contrast, during the last recession, the unemployment rate started out at 5.0%, peaked at 10.0% and was 9.5% at the official end of the recession.

The key takeaway is to figure out what went wrong so we don't repeat the mistakes the led up to the Great Recession. The root cause of the most recent Great Recession goes back to the First Clinton administration, which we can discuss if you are interested.



Yes, the middle class has been shrinking. But for the best of all possible reasons:






There is no such thing as "exploit" in economics. It doesn't exist.




Wow. Such hostility. Such anger. Such rage.

Be careful or you're going to have a hemorrhage. Well, either that or get a job offer from MSNBC.


My personal guess is 40 years from today, in 2059, everyone will look back at 2019 as "The Good Old Days."



Jobless Rate Falls to Lowest in Nearly 50 Years as Employers Ramp Up Hiring
The U.S. labor market showed historic strength in April, with employers hiring at a faster pace and the unemployment rate falling to a half-century low. The latest numbers, however, also raise the question of whether enough workers can be drawn into the labor market to sustain the momentum of a nearly decade-long expansion.
Hardly Anyone Wants to Admit America Is Beating Poverty
Poverty has declined significantly over the past 50 years. It doesn't register in the "Official Poverty Measure" because that metric misses the following:
  • The official income measure does not count in-kind benefits, like the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (food stamps) and housing benefits. It also misses tax benefits, like the earned-income tax credit, which allocated $65 billion to low income workers last year.
  • The official poverty measure relies on incomplete survey data. For example, in recent years the official poverty survey registered only half of the cash welfare the government paid out.
  • The official measure uses the flawed Consumer Price Index (urban); the CPI-U doesn't accurately measure the improvements in quality, or price reductions (e.g., cell phones were introduced 35 years ago, were the size of a brick, sold for $10,000 and were pretty useless. You can buy a much better phone today - a smart phone - for a hundred bucks. CPI-U does not account for such changes in quality and drops in price).
A better way is to measure poverty based on consumption: what food, housing, transportation and other goods and services people are able to purchase. This approach, which captures the effect of noncash programs and accounts for the known bias in the CPI-U, demonstrates clearly that across the board, everything is much, much better than it was decades ago.

Other indicators support this; for example the poorest 20% of Americans live as the middle class did a generation ago as measured by the square footage of their homes, the number of rooms per person, and the presence of air conditioning, dishwashers, TVs, computers, and other amenities.

Employers Eager to Hire Try a New Policy: ‘No Experience Necessary’

Employers say they are abandoning preferences for college degrees and specific skill sets to speed up hiring and broaden the pool of job candidates. Many companies had added requirements to job postings after the recession, when millions were out of work and human-resources departments were stacked with résumés. Across the nation, employers are removing those requirements as they search for employees - even the unskilled and inexperienced.
The Canard About Falling Incomes
“In 1973, the inflation-adjusted median income of men working full time was $54,030. In 2016, it was $51,640,” the New York Times breathlessly reported last year. Sounds awful. Except it’s nonsense. The offender is the manufacturer of inflation data, the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS).
As consumer items get more feature-rich and complex, the BLS simply can’t note the absolute price of, say, a microwave oven. So the bureau came up with the indulgently named "hedonic quality adjustment," defined as “decomposing an item into its constituent characteristics, obtaining estimates of the value of the utility derived from each characteristic, and using those value estimates to adjust prices when the quality of a good changes.”

Here’s a thought experiment: Think about your car’s automatic emergency braking, sometimes known as precrash or collision avoidance. It has been an increasingly popular option in recent years. By 2022, it will be standard on almost all cars. Some sensors and a few pieces of code—today it costs maybe $50 to produce. But what’s it worth?

Let’s do a little hedonic decomposing of our own. Before these sensors, you would have had to hire a person to ride shotgun and constantly watch for potential collisions and slam on the brakes for you. In 2016 the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety estimated the average driver spends almost 300 hours a year in the car, logging more than 10,000 miles. Paying someone even $10 an hour to stare into traffic means that over five years, collision avoidance is worth nearly $15,000. Double if you want someone to look out the back window, too.

Does this show up anywhere in the consumer-price index? Of course not. One of the most lifesaving features has dropped in cost by three orders of magnitude in less than a decade. To the BLS, it’s practically nonexistent.

Ditto for cell phones: the first cellular telephone was sold in 1984, cost the equivalent of $10,000 in today's dollars, was the size of a brick, and was a piece of crap. Today's cellular telephone has more power than a 1980s-era IBM Mainframe computer and costs a couple hundred bucks or so. That massive price decline doesn't make it into the BLS' "market basket" of goods until almost all of the price decline has already occurred.

The list goes on and on and on...
Probably the best post ever on this site, and I've been here a long time.
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Old 07-02-2019, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
12,766 posts, read 4,830,944 times
Reputation: 5670
Quote:
Originally Posted by EA View Post
Andrew Yang wants UBI 1,000 per month per person.
The U.S. Census Bureau estimates that there are 247,813,910 adults living in the United States.

So 247,813,910 x 1,000 x 12 = 2.97 trillion

Bernie Sandersand others want universal healthcare. That is around 3 trillion per year.

Bernie Sanders and others want "free" college. Current college tuition is 70 billion.

That's over 6 trillion right there and we all know that government programs are ALWAYS a lot more than they say they will be.
So I'm rounding to 7 trillion.
The current budget is 4.84 trillion.
We all know nothing gets cut from the budget they only add to it. So 7 trillion plus 4.84 trillion is close enough to 12 trillion to call it 12 trillion.

Cory Booker wants reparations. That's estimated to be over 50 trillion.
And which of those is in control of the DNC or other major aspects of the party?

Some of it will turn out to happen. I have believed for 10 years the college loans were an immense screw up. And we knew it at the time we did it - that is why we will not allow bankruptcy removal of the debt. The result is that the cost of college has accelerated driven by the new source of revenue. There is no way back now. So over time I expect the government will end up picking up a good part of the cost of a college education. It is pretty close to inevitable.

Many years ago my mother was a very strong advocate for looking at a guaranteed income. My mother was an expert on taxation and often provided testimony to Congress. It is actually a reasonably doable scheme. You simply tax it back out of the population. You simply set it up so that the taxes of all but the bottom 20% go up more than the amount paid. And it removes virtually all other forms of welfare. It will also cause economic growth. Simply an income redistribution scheme but the poor spend a much higher percentage of their income than the wealthy.

The rest of the OECD shows that we grossly over pay for health care and get an inferior product. So it should be possible to convert to something similar and get better health care for the same cost or less.

But little if any of this is on tap in the immediate future. The democrats may support pieces but even that must be negotiated.
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Old 07-02-2019, 01:14 PM
EA
 
Location: Las Vegas
6,178 posts, read 5,200,969 times
Reputation: 6844
So take 1000 dollars from me per month to give me 1000 dollars per month and somehow that makes my life better?
Not to mention that taking money from people to give back COSTS money in administration.
So realistically they take 1300 a month from me to give me 1,000 a month and my life is supposed to be magically better.
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Old 07-02-2019, 01:19 PM
 
484 posts, read 120,910 times
Reputation: 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
And which of those is in control of the DNC or other major aspects of the party?

Some of it will turn out to happen. I have believed for 10 years the college loans were an immense screw up. And we knew it at the time we did it - that is why we will not allow bankruptcy removal of the debt. The result is that the cost of college has accelerated driven by the new source of revenue. There is no way back now. So over time I expect the government will end up picking up a good part of the cost of a college education. It is pretty close to inevitable.

Many years ago my mother was a very strong advocate for looking at a guaranteed income. My mother was an expert on taxation and often provided testimony to Congress. It is actually a reasonably doable scheme. You simply tax it back out of the population. You simply set it up so that the taxes of all but the bottom 20% go up more than the amount paid. And it removes virtually all other forms of welfare. It will also cause economic growth. Simply an income redistribution scheme but the poor spend a much higher percentage of their income than the wealthy.

The rest of the OECD shows that we grossly over pay for health care and get an inferior product. So it should be possible to convert to something similar and get better health care for the same cost or less.

But little if any of this is on tap in the immediate future. The democrats may support pieces but even that must be negotiated.
As someone who knows a tax expert you must certainly realize 44% of Americans pay NO tax. More free money = Mexican drug cartels get richer.
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Old 07-02-2019, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
107 posts, read 48,476 times
Reputation: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by EA View Post
Andrew Yang wants UBI 1,000 per month per person.
The U.S. Census Bureau estimates that there are 247,813,910 adults living in the United States.

So 247,813,910 x 1,000 x 12 = 2.97 trillion

Bernie Sandersand others want universal healthcare. That is around 3 trillion per year.

Bernie Sanders and others want "free" college. Current college tuition is 70 billion.

That's over 6 trillion right there and we all know that government programs are ALWAYS a lot more than they say they will be.
So I'm rounding to 7 trillion.
The current budget is 4.84 trillion.
We all know nothing gets cut from the budget they only add to it. So 7 trillion plus 4.84 trillion is close enough to 12 trillion to call it 12 trillion.

Cory Booker wants reparations. That's estimated to be over 50 trillion.
Since I know you value accuracy, your Bernie Sanders college statement is factually incorrect.

His statement was for 4-year public colleges and I believe that number was 47 billion/year, not the 70 billion that included privates. Still a big number but that also meant 100% participation which I imagine wouldn't ever happen because there were restrictions in place on what the money could be used for and it required schools to quit relying on adjunct staff.

Schools in the college sports arms race probably wouldn't want to comply unless forced since they've got their cash cow media deals.
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