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View Poll Results: For fun, let us know in the poll where you fall.
Upper Class - Elite 6 13.33%
Upper Middle Class 20 44.44%
Lower Middle Class 9 20.00%
Working Class 3 6.67%
Poor - Poverty Level 7 15.56%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-04-2019, 11:50 PM
 
2,549 posts, read 2,472,649 times
Reputation: 1607

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EA View Post
I think he's more talking about the hypocrisy of claiming to be caring about human life while killing millions of humans.

You can't pull that on me, I'm anti-human. More abortions and more plagues!!!!
I have respect for the honesty.
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Old Yesterday, 08:31 AM
 
2,344 posts, read 599,818 times
Reputation: 4088
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Insurance exists because there are rare events that overcome the financial capability of all but the very rich. So you share the risk among many so no one needs deal with the very bad outcomes.
I understand your point, but we really don't have health insurance here in the USA. We have pre-paid medical care.

We all have car insurance, but we wouldn't think of asking State Farm or Geico to pay for our oil changes and tune-ups -- but by the admittedly imperfect analogy, that's what we do with Cigna and Aetna and Blue Cross/Blue Shield and United Health.

One of the "features" of Obamacare was that it was designed to raise the price of healthcare to the end customer to discourage overuse. That causes its own set of problems, of course. And it pissed everyone off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Are physicians over paid? Do hospitals charge too much?
Oh - on your comment re: physician compensation, I happened to watch a segment on the local news about the difficulty the Las Vegas VA Hospital has hiring specialist physicians. They interviewed someone who I presume is an executive at the LV VA facility, who mentioned that by law they cannot pay a physician more than the statutory compensation of the President of the USA, currently $400K. That isn't competitive, they say, for many specialists. Just a single random data point.

And we shouldn't forget the toll fraud plays. Here's an example: a friend on Medicare will soon have eyelid surgery to correct some droopy eyelid condition, and it is fully covered by Medicare. That is, it isn't considered cosmetic surgery. She says that to get it covered by Medicare, she had to lie during a test by stating she couldn't see items above a horizontal line demarcation of sort of the "upper hemisphere" of sight. She could, but she wanted the surgery and wanted Medicare to pay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
But it would appear that the employment lost may well be made up by an increase in medical practitioners.
True in aggregate, but imagine that $150K/year employee of the hospital who works in a back office and is an expert in insurance... right now she's the breadwinner for her family, and in the ideal world she's out of a job, and at age 50 she has no chance of moving to the clinical side of health care where she would actually care for patients.

The savings to the system ONLY occur if she leaves the system entirely, which is good for us but bad for her family.

And I'm not smart enough to figure it all out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
I would like to see a lot more physician amplifiers..trained somewhere between an RN and an MD. Maybe with an eventual transition upward to an MD after some years as an understudy. Maybe fleets of them doing the front end work and saving the doctors for the real problems.
That seems to me like a stop-gap. As a patient, it pisses me off if I make an appt to see a doctor, only to be seen by a Nurse Practitioner - yet charged for a full office visit. I'd like to see more trained MDs.Let's say we flat out doubled the number of physicians in every category - such a surge in supply would have an effect on the equilibrium price, much to the dismay AMA.

In many countries around the world, a bright graduating high school senior applies directly to medical school, which is typically a 6-year program, rather than first getting a BA/BS and then applying to med school. They seem to do well with this system. Perhaps that's something we should explore.

At the end of the day, we need more medical schools. By itself, that helps, but then graduating MDs run into the next roadblock because residency slots in teaching hospitals are also constrained - so we wee need more of those as well.

Last edited by RationalExpectations; Yesterday at 08:46 AM..
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Old Yesterday, 09:03 AM
 
9,275 posts, read 9,338,645 times
Reputation: 29143
Quote:
Originally Posted by EA View Post
"Has the middle class in Las Vegas shrunk? Yes—on Pew’s definition. Noon ours."
I'm taking a wild guess you are a republican conservative?

You probably don't really care if more people are becoming poor just so the opportunity for a few people to become super wealthy remains.

This sadly is actually a fairly common attitude. Some people would love a society where 15% are wealthy, there is no middle class, and the rest are poor. The reasoning is that it increases their individual chance of becoming wealthy and sacrificing virtually every other value in society is justifiable as a result.

The rest of us should heed this. An increasingly large segment of people in this country do not mean well. If what I described above is someone's goal, I pretty much tune them out when it comes to discussing public policy. Public policy is something other than "Me first".
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Old Yesterday, 09:40 AM
 
2,344 posts, read 599,818 times
Reputation: 4088
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddrhazy View Post
And if you want to reduce government, you can start by slashing the military budget. I think the last figure I saw was 780 BILLION/year. But I haven't heard any tea partiers dismantling the military industrial complex. Nope, it's only accelerated in it's spending of useless gewgaws like the F-35 program.
Let's take Boeing as an example of a major defense contractor. Boeing has significant defense-related operations in each of the 48 contiguous states. Just try cutting Boeing's slice of the defense budget - I dare you. It is great in theory but any affected state's elected representatives would prevent you from doing so - even the most extreme progressive left-wing senators won't let them do so.

Robert Gates was Secretary of Defense under both President Bush and under President Obama. I urge you to read his excellent Duty: Memoirs of a Secretary at War. (He also spent 26 year in the CIA, and was Director of the CIA, and President of Texas A&M).

Gates goes into some detail of the difficulty he had as the Secretary of Defense attempting to cut actual programs that were designed for an enemy that no longer exits (the USSR) for a type of war that no longer exists (WWII-style war with 2 Million troops serving in the European Theater, 16 Million in total). He was desperate to reallocate scarce DOD money to things that actually mattered to the war being fought in real time in Iraq. He famously learned about a strategic flaw to MRAP armored troop carriers - they had flat bottoms, and roadside bombs were killing and crippling soldiers from below. He learned about this by reading an article in the NY Times. The NY TIMES! Not from anyone in the military or in the DOD. A partial solution, according to the NY Times article, was to outfit the underside of the MRAP with V-shaped armor which would deflect much of the blast away from the vehicle's occupants.

All he would have to do is reallocate money from things such as ICBM programs (for a type of war not being fought) or B-2 Stealth Bombers (for a type of war not being fought) to the MRAP (for a war actually being fought in real time). It was like pulling teeth with no anesthetic - elected representatives in the Senate and in Congress came unglued & publicly/privately pressured him & the President not to cut military programs that would effect the jobs of defense contractors in their districts, even though that meant MRAPs would remain highly vulnerable because of a lack of shaped armor underneath them. Eventually, Gates prevailed.

That's just a simple example of the difficulty in cutting / reallocating funds in the Department of Defense -- and an example of just how effective a leader Gates was. Few Secretaries of Defense have been so effective.

Separately, the Department of Veterans Affairs -- a separate cabinet-level organization and hence a peer of the Defense Department -- has similar such problems. The USA's inventory of VA Hospitals are designed to care for the massive number of veterans who were injured in WWII-style wars that no longer exist. Many of those hospitals were built 50 years ago or more, and have 400+ "staffed beds," most of which are never used. the largest has nearly 1000 staffed beds. The total number of beds is greater than the number of staffed beds. Many of these hospitals are exceptionally inefficient and the VA has attempted to close them/replace them with more, smaller facilities. Here's an example of just how inefficient: imagine the in-hospital laundry facility designed just to wash all the linens with massive laundry machines - but the number of beds actually used is a small fraction of the total available, so those massive laundry machines go unused (or broken & idle) and they send the laundry out for processing elsewhere, even though they keep the staff to operate them.

Any time the VA attempts to close one of these dinosaur hospitals in favor of something designed for modern conflicts, the elected politicians in that state and congressional district come unglued - even the most liberal of them.

The same was true with "The Base Realignment And Closure Commission (BRAC)." Congressman Ron Dellums (D, CA) was a career politician from Oakland, CA, and a member of the extreme progressive wing of the Democratic Party. He was a life-long critic of military spending beginning with the War in Vietnam, and everything you say above regarding the military and DOD are things he said long ago. When the USSR collapsed and the USA DOD wanted to close military bases and cut spending in response, no one was more vocal than Ron Dellums that the military MUST be cut. Then the BRAC recommended cutting an obsolete base in Oakland - and Ron Dellums nearly had a hemorrhage. How dare the DOD suggest closing the base in Oakland? That was Racist, he said. It was Political Payback for his being a lifelong critic of the military and the DOD, and the DOD must NOT be allowed to get away with closing the Oakland base.

The BRAC list drew howls of protest from every elected representative whose district would be effected, claiming the loss of payroll would cripple the communities and states. Fortunately, the BRAC was, as I recall, a complete up-or-down vote with no modifications to the list allowed. The base in Oakland, along with many others, was indeed closed.
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Old Yesterday, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
796 posts, read 1,557,893 times
Reputation: 866
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I'm taking a wild guess you are a republican conservative?

You probably don't really care if more people are becoming poor just so the opportunity for a few people to become super wealthy remains.
I'm taking a wild guess that you are an infrequent visitor here and know little about EA's background.
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Old Yesterday, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Studio City, CA 91604
2,746 posts, read 3,022,560 times
Reputation: 4945
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I'm taking a wild guess you are a republican conservative?

You probably don't really care if more people are becoming poor just so the opportunity for a few people to become super wealthy remains.

This sadly is actually a fairly common attitude. Some people would love a society where 15% are wealthy, there is no middle class, and the rest are poor. The reasoning is that it increases their individual chance of becoming wealthy and sacrificing virtually every other value in society is justifiable as a result.

The rest of us should heed this. An increasingly large segment of people in this country do not mean well. If what I described above is someone's goal, I pretty much tune them out when it comes to discussing public policy. Public policy is something other than "Me first".

I'm always amazed at the people who have these delusions of grandeur and defend lazes faire capitalism because they think that, they too, will join the ranks of the wealthy someday. You see a bunch of that on this particular thread because...well...they're all "rich" and have "connections" Oh, and, they're all "self made entrepreneurs" who never took a hand out or had a hand up in their entire lives...don't ya know?

...It would almost be humorous if that line of thinking -- and the outcome it brings -- wasn't so toxic for the rest of us.

In reality, though, they're just extending the misery for 90% of the population and keeping most of the wealth confined to the oligarchy that they dream of joining one day.
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Old Yesterday, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Studio City, CA 91604
2,746 posts, read 3,022,560 times
Reputation: 4945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trash Can View Post
I'm taking a wild guess that you are an infrequent visitor here and know little about EA's background.

It's not like they can't view posting history, "Trash Can"
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Old Yesterday, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Southern Highlands
1,388 posts, read 886,555 times
Reputation: 1186
Quote:
I'm always amazed at the people who have these delusions of grandeur and defend lazes faire capitalism

I am always amazed at the people who don't look up the spelling of a word they don't know.
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Old Yesterday, 01:26 PM
EA
 
Location: Las Vegas
6,253 posts, read 5,262,342 times
Reputation: 6909
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I'm taking a wild guess you are a republican conservative?

You probably don't really care if more people are becoming poor just so the opportunity for a few people to become super wealthy remains.

This sadly is actually a fairly common attitude. Some people would love a society where 15% are wealthy, there is no middle class, and the rest are poor. The reasoning is that it increases their individual chance of becoming wealthy and sacrificing virtually every other value in society is justifiable as a result.

The rest of us should heed this. An increasingly large segment of people in this country do not mean well. If what I described above is someone's goal, I pretty much tune them out when it comes to discussing public policy. Public policy is something other than "Me first".



I'm an anarcho capitalist if anything. Republicans and democrats work together for the same donors to screw Americans.


That's a nice twist to put yourself on the upper hand of morality aka virtue signal.

It's not that I don't care that people are poor, it's that I understand that people are poor, 9,999 times out of 10,000 because of dumb choices they make.
There's no oppression causing poverty. It's bad choices and laziness. Which is odd because the poor tend to do more work than the wealthy. But the poor work dumb and the rich work smart.

I work less than I have ever worked and make more than I have ever made now because I started making better choices. Instead of wasting money on crap that doesn't add value to my life, like TVS and name brand clothes, I'm buying tools to make money with. I'm buying wholesale products to resell on ebay.
I'm starting to learn how to trade stocks so I can day trade.
I teach weld classes where I do very little work. I basically talk a little bit, and then correct problems students make and offer advice.

I still have a long way to go to meet my financial goals, but I'm a hell of a lot closer than I was last year.


I went from rock bottom to middle class pretty quickly and I'm kissing upperclass. It's because of good choices and taking advantage of opportunity.

There's absolutely nothing stopping other poor people from making it except for their own mentality.
I'm no financial genius but give me a poor person willing to listen and I'll turn their life around.


At the end of the day we both want the same thing. People to do well. The difference is you have no faith in people and think you need to hand them everything they need.
I think people are capable of working hard, working smart, and making it on their own.
The safety nets are the biggest obstacle people face. Homeless people stay homeless because they can easily get everything they need. Poor people stay poor because the government hands them food, shelter, and money. They live a subpar life but as long as their basic needs are covered they're largely content to stay that way.
But worse than that, the way the programs work you're actively deincintivized to progress yourself. And the left is doing all they can to make that worse so they can virtue signal to their voters.
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Old Yesterday, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Studio City, CA 91604
2,746 posts, read 3,022,560 times
Reputation: 4945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
I am always amazed at the people who don't look up the spelling of a word they don't know.
Like the people who are still fighting "the Cold War" in their heads?
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