U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Nevada > Las Vegas
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-15-2019, 11:10 PM
Status: "Goodbye Portland, Hello Las Vegas!" (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Henderson, NV
5,886 posts, read 6,088,245 times
Reputation: 6816

Advertisements

All due respect, what technology are you using?! I don’t know anyone who would install a crappy on / off AC system in 2019. There’s nothing fancy about it, it’s just superior technology that absolutely should be standard in any home especially in an extreme climate. My 2016 Trane model was variable to 1% - it’s not on or off, it uses the exact amount of energy needed for the task down to a 1% variable. Even a two stage system is terrible technology. At the very least you’d want one with 0-25-50-75-100 and that would be solid enough for most people. Otherwise the compressor just runs down way too fast turning on, turning off, on, off, again and again. Not good.

PS: Any modern system doesn’t have an “oversized” unit situation. They run at the power they need to do their jobs so it’s better to have more than you need rather than less. Most installers will put more than strictly necessary because the system will just run at a max of 75% capacity instead of 100%. No problems.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-15-2019, 11:22 PM
 
777 posts, read 319,404 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanLB View Post
All due respect, what technology are you using?! I donít know anyone who would install a crappy on / off AC system in 2019. Thereís nothing fancy about it, itís just superior technology that absolutely should be standard in any home especially in an extreme climate. My 2016 Trane model was variable to 1% - itís not on or off, it uses the exact amount of energy needed for the task down to a 1% variable. Even a two stage system is terrible technology. At the very least youíd want one with 0-25-50-75-100 and that would be solid enough for most people. Otherwise the compressor just runs down way too fast turning on, turning off, on, off, again and again. Not good.

PS: Any modern system doesnít have an ďoversizedĒ unit situation. They run at the power they need to do their jobs so itís better to have more than you need rather than less. Most installers will put more than strictly necessary because the system will just run at a max of 75% capacity instead of 100%. No problems.
Well, believe whatever you want. I ran a CBA before installing the new one, and saw that I would never get my money back on a variable or multi-stage over the lifetime of the unit, even if the intermediate utility costs were lower.

When I was looking at housed to move out here, and I looked at a TON of them, to the point my agent was annoyed, I didn't see a single house with a variable or multi stage unit on it.

There is no doubt a variable speed unit or a multi-stage is superior to a single stage. I have a totally variable unit in my last place back east and my utility bills were substantially lower than anywhere else I lived, despite the fact that during hot and cold seasons it ran nearly constantly. However, I did NOT pay to install it. From what I understand (my parents originally owned the unit I later bought from them) it cost them a good $16K to put that system in. It was used for both heating and cooling (heat pump).

Average lifetime of an HVAC is 13 years(even if its a heat pump) so, if you divide out $16K over 13 years, you're already at $1230/yr and you didn't pay any utilities or maintenance, yet.

So anyways, I'm not even debating you on unit sizing, I'm simply stating the economics of the situation. I'm well aware that there are several parties here who just get tickled pink to debate anything I post.

If you have a CBA showing your variable or multi-stage unit to be cheaper to run over TCO, than I'd like to see it, as well as everyone else here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2019, 11:33 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
2,220 posts, read 1,622,212 times
Reputation: 1748
Quote:
Originally Posted by equid0x View Post
The
I close vents in unused or mostly unused areas with doors that can be shut like storage, laundry, extra bedrooms, bathrooms, & closets.
All the HVAC techs I've spoken always say not to do this. Don't know how true it is, they argue it the built up pressure can cause leaks in the air ducts.

https://www.google.com/search?q=clos...an+damage+hvac
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2019, 11:44 PM
 
777 posts, read 319,404 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaSupreme View Post
All the HVAC techs I've spoken always say not to do this. Don't know how true it is, they argue it the built up pressure can cause leaks in the air ducts.

https://www.google.com/search?q=clos...an+damage+hvac
The vast majority of the rooms I've closed off are 125sqft or less. In total, maybe 500sqft. You are right, this is an issue if you close off huge areas. Its not an issue if you close off small ones.

The problem you can have if you close off too many areas is that the coil can freeze over, then the refrigerant slugs back to the compressor, and since liquid refrigerant is not compressible, damages the compressor.

This is really not an issue unless you're closing off a substantial portion of your home, like 50% or more.

Aside from that, it virtually impossible to freeze a coil here, given that the dewpoint/humidity is so low. This might be different if you lived somewhere with substantial humidity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2019, 11:48 PM
 
777 posts, read 319,404 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanLB View Post
All due respect, what technology are you using?! I donít know anyone who would install a crappy on / off AC system in 2019. Thereís nothing fancy about it, itís just superior technology that absolutely should be standard in any home especially in an extreme climate. My 2016 Trane model was variable to 1% - itís not on or off, it uses the exact amount of energy needed for the task down to a 1% variable. Even a two stage system is terrible technology. At the very least youíd want one with 0-25-50-75-100 and that would be solid enough for most people. Otherwise the compressor just runs down way too fast turning on, turning off, on, off, again and again. Not good.

PS: Any modern system doesnít have an ďoversizedĒ unit situation. They run at the power they need to do their jobs so itís better to have more than you need rather than less. Most installers will put more than strictly necessary because the system will just run at a max of 75% capacity instead of 100%. No problems.
Just for the sake of debate, I just ran an amortization in a spreadsheet on my other screen...

For a $16K, 15 SEER variable unite over 15 years, with an average utility cost of %60 of a single stage rated at $60/mth(I base this on what my smart meter says my unit costs me) leave you at $36/mth average over the year....

after 13 years of service it costs you a total of $16468.

A single stage, same rating, costing $6700 to install (thats what mine cost) with an average of $60/mth over the year(thats what mine costs)...

after 13 years of service it costs you a total of $7480.

Well, that's quite a difference.

Anyways, I'm not debating that advancement of that technology, but if it costs you more in the long run to have it, why run it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-16-2019, 12:07 AM
 
777 posts, read 319,404 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by equid0x View Post
Just for the sake of debate, I just ran an amortization in a spreadsheet on my other screen...

For a $16K, 15 SEER variable unite over 15 years, with an average utility cost of %60 of a single stage rated at $60/mth(I base this on what my smart meter says my unit costs me) leave you at $36/mth average over the year....

after 13 years of service it costs you a total of $16468.

A single stage, same rating, costing $6700 to install (thats what mine cost) with an average of $60/mth over the year(thats what mine costs)...

after 13 years of service it costs you a total of $7480.

Well, that's quite a difference.

Anyways, I'm not debating that advancement of that technology, but if it costs you more in the long run to have it, why run it?
Looking at that, I thought, there has got to be something wrong with those numbers....

There is... I forgot to multiply each year's average electrical cost by 12

So... the actuals are:

TCO Variable Speed @ Year 13: 21616
TCO Single Speed @ Year 13: 16060
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-16-2019, 12:20 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
808 posts, read 1,567,172 times
Reputation: 900
Quote:
Originally Posted by equid0x View Post
Its impossible for an AC to expend more time running to cool the place down again than it would have if it kept running the whole time, even if it ran less.

AC units do not "work harder" to cool a place down or any other such nonsense when they've been left off for an extended period of time. AC units, generally speaking unless you have some fancy variable speed or 2 stage system(never seen one here), run and remove heat at a fixed rate. They are either on or off. The only difference is how often the AC thermostat calls for the compressor to turn on and off.
Totally agree with everything you wrote. Taking it a step further, your system is under the most stress every time the compressor cycles on and off. More cycles ----> more wear and tear on your system ----> shorter lifespan.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-16-2019, 12:39 AM
 
777 posts, read 319,404 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trash Can View Post
Totally agree with everything you wrote. Taking it a step further, your system is under the most stress every time the compressor cycles on and off. More cycles ----> more wear and tear on your system ----> shorter lifespan.
Exactly... you can even extend this to taxi cabs... anyone who has been to a car auction has probably seen a thousand taxi cabs with 500,000 miles plus on them. You might think that's impossible if your neighbor owned the same crown-vic and it died at 220K.

Why? They don't start up and shut down. They leave the car running. The majority of the wear occurs when the car is being started or stopping and the oil flow to bearings and whatnot is stopped.

When you go out on the highway and see tractor-trailors..... realize that it is not uncommon for these vehicles to have over a MILLION miles on them! Sometimes several million!

What they do is get oil tests done, and when the detergent and lubricant packages start to break down, they change the oil. Often times they will run the same oil for 15 or 20,000 miles. When they establish a breakdown interval for a particular vehicle, they will change the oil at that interval.

If you're following the 3K interval on your cars you're probably a fool getting duped by the oil industry.

I had a 4 cyl honda civic changed after testing at 13K and ran it to 260K miles before I traded it in. The more you know.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-16-2019, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Southern Highlands
1,427 posts, read 908,444 times
Reputation: 1222
Quote:
If you're following the 3K interval on your cars you're probably a fool getting duped by the oil industry.

I remember the big push 20 years ago for 3k oil changes. I thought that had ended.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-16-2019, 09:44 AM
 
529 posts, read 380,681 times
Reputation: 530
When I first got to vegas I'd always turn my unit off when I left home, and over summer I'd be getting bills of 500 a month running 2 hvac units.

Now I dont do anything and just leave it running the whole time (though I am at home a fair bit daytimes anyway) and my energy bill is much lower like 300 a month.

Unscientific, and havent kept detailed notes, but it seems much better to me, plus I dont have any periods where I'm at home sweating away waiting for it to kick in.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Nevada > Las Vegas
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top