[desertsun41]

Originally Posted by BobKovacs

If he plans on doing residential new construction, he's going to get paid piece-work, not hourly. If he hustles and has a good helper, he can make $1,000 a week- if he drags his butt, he'll be lucky to make 1/2 that. IMO, the best place for an electrician is in the commercial field- it's much more technically challenging, and the companies are generally larger/more professional. He'll also get paid hourly, which is probably what he's accustomed to. As far as rates go, the local union rate was in the low $20/hour range last time I checked, so he can probably get a gauge on what the non-union wages will be by comparing the two rates where you are now. In general, I'd say you'll probably find that most guys are probably +/- $20/hour.

Bob the majority of trades are seeing less and less of the piece work thing. Companies are learning how much they can save by paying the ol scab by the hour wage and may the quality of work be damned. The home buyers could care less about quality so why should the builder offer it at greater cost to him?

As for Electricians, I dont think I ever saw a piece worker Rough-in Electrician. As for finish Electricians yes, in fact most are. Rough-in's are those who do the skill minded part like run the wires and hook up the service panels. The finish Electiicans are many times not even Electricians. All they do is put on the outlets, switches, covers, lights and so on. They are supposed to be supervised by licensed Electricans but almost never are.

I have yet to bump into an Electician on any tract making $20/hr. The highest I ever met anyone making was $15/hr. Union Electicians make pretty much what you said in the neighborhood of $35-38/hr and are one of the few tradesmen Union workers who work year round. I know Union Carpenters that make that kind of money but only work 7 months of the year.

I know a whole lot of tradesmen that I been working side by side with for years. $15 is just about top pay for any tradesmen non union. It is very very hard to get into the union unless you are an Electrician because they are desperate for skilled Electricians. You will find it almost impossible to find a young person working on the strip projects. That may suggest it takes years and years to find your way and build your own reputation.

[BobKovacs]

Originally Posted by desertsun41

As for Electricians, I dont think I ever saw a piece worker Rough-in Electrician. As for finish Electricians yes, in fact most are. Rough-in's are those who do the skill minded part like run the wires and hook up the service panels. The finish Electiicans are many times not even Electricians. All they do is put on the outlets, switches, covers, lights and so on. They are supposed to be supervised by licensed Electricans but almost never are.

I saw it every day when I was building homes there. Normally, the same crew came back to trim out the houses they roughed, and there was a separate "ring out" guy who came through after the power was on to fix everything that was mis-wired. I had one two-man piece-work crew that would rough a 2,800 sf house in less than a day, trim it in a day, and have zero repairs/problems at ring-out. The same company had another crew with 3 guys, and they'd take 2-3 days to rough the same house, 2 days to trim it, and have the ring-out guy there making holes everywhere to fix everything they messed up. Guess who was making better $$???

[desertsun41]

Originally Posted by BobKovacs

I saw it every day when I was building homes there. Normally, the same crew came back to trim out the houses they roughed, and there was a separate "ring out" guy who came through after the power was on to fix everything that was mis-wired. I had one two-man piece-work crew that would rough a 2,800 sf house in less than a day, trim it in a day, and have zero repairs/problems at ring-out. The same company had another crew with 3 guys, and they'd take 2-3 days to rough the same house, 2 days to trim it, and have the ring-out guy there making holes everywhere to fix everything they messed up. Guess who was making better $$???

To fix everything that was miswired? That made me giggle. If the people who bought these homes knew just how many mistakes they just bought that either were fixed somewhat or not fixed at all..........

You know during the boom times a few years ago these homes were not even inspected. I personally knew some of the building inspectors as you probably did too. They were there every day, same guy. More often then not they did their inspections from their little pick up truck out in the street. They simply did not have enough time to walk every home.

Luckly there are very very few mishaps due to mis or non inspected homes. There are more plumbing problems after the homeowner moves in then electrical problems.

I dont know how long you been gone but piece work is almost all gone. Even Cox Cable did away with all the service people which were self employed and contracted with Cox. Cox figured out they can hire their own schleps at $8/hr rather then pay the self employed line men 2/5 times that.

I predict in just a couple years piece workers will die with the Dinosaur. And that is too bad for those who can work fast and make good money.

[BobKovacs]

Originally Posted by desertsun41

You know during the boom times a few years ago these homes were not even inspected. I personally knew some of the building inspectors as you probably did too. They were there every day, same guy. More often then not they did their inspections from their little pick up truck out in the street. They simply did not have enough time to walk every home.

Yup- once my inspector and I developed a rapport and he knew that we were building everything per code, he didn't even visit the houses. He'd hang in the trailer and talk about fishing, and 20 minutes later be like "oh, I've gotta run- what did we have scheduled today anyway? Is everything complete?", and he'd sign my inspection cards. Every six months or so the county would rotate inspectors, and you'd have to prove yourself again, but within a month or so it was the same routine with the new inspector.

There were two guys who worked for the City of LV who were true ball-busters though- they'd pull nails to make sure they were long enough, unbolt hold-downs to see if the holes were over-drilled, etc.- it'd take 4 hours to get a framing inspection on one 4,000 sf house, and you rarely passed on the first try. That was the worst subdivision I ever built out in Summerlin.

[desertsun41]

Originally Posted by BobKovacs

Yup- once my inspector and I developed a rapport and he knew that we were building everything per code, he didn't even visit the houses. He'd hang in the trailer and talk about fishing, and 20 minutes later be like "oh, I've gotta run- what did we have scheduled today anyway? Is everything complete?", and he'd sign my inspection cards. Every six months or so the county would rotate inspectors, and you'd have to prove yourself again, but within a month or so it was the same routine with the new inspector.

There were two guys who worked for the City of LV who were true ball-busters though- they'd pull nails to make sure they were long enough, unbolt hold-downs to see if the holes were over-drilled, etc.- it'd take 4 hours to get a framing inspection on one 4,000 sf house, and you rarely passed on the first try. That was the worst subdivision I ever built out in Summerlin.

I met a few of those guys. Those ball-busters were almost always rookies. Greenies, brand new hires who were trying to prove themselves. Kinda like a new boss in the office. They have to be mean and strong quickly so everyone would be scared of them and follow the rules.

I too saw what you saw. The inspector would drive up the the construction trailer, go inside and just sign all the cards without ever even seeing the house.

Funny looking back. The few who tried to be a hero. Now they are out of work. Almost no building going on at all. How many inspectors were layed off? Im still laughing at them. Power corrups. And those inspectors some times thought they were real cops.

For those of you wondering. While I am sure payoffs still happen in exchange for a green tag, I have never seen a payoff in more then 15 years. And that was back in Bob and I's home town. I never seen it in Las Vegas.

[mommyjnny]

Thanks - this really helped!

Originally Posted by desertsun41

Here is some info that might help you. Just this morning on the news they listed the top 5 worse economies in America.

#1 Las Vegas
#2 Pheonix
#3 Miami
#4 San Diego

The #1 strongest economy in America is Texas.

Among your 3 choices listed above........does this information help you?

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by desertsun41

Here is some info that might help you. Just this morning on the news they listed the top 5 worse economies in America.

#1 Las Vegas
#2 Pheonix
#3 Miami
#4 San Diego

The #1 strongest economy in America is Texas.

Among your 3 choices listed above........does this information help you?

That is housing not economy. Phoenix and Las Vegas are actually doing very well on the economic side. There are dozens of places in the midwest that are really hurting. Try Detroit....

The housing is in the pits relative to year over year price decline. If however you go back to current year over 2003 it is not half bad. Name your poison.

I would agree that it is a terrible place for residental construction at this point. TX is much better.

[mommyjnny]

Thanks....that is what I figured. I know here in Illinois where I am it is bad. The housing crisis has gotten so bad that builders that we know are foreclosing on what they have built because they cannot sell. Some builders have built..... the outside is gorgeous and the inside is studs only because they cannot afford to do anymore........ We are trying to leave this mess.

Originally Posted by olecapt

That is housing not economy. Phoenix and Las Vegas are actually doing very well on the economic side. There are dozens of places in the midwest that are really hurting. Try Detroit....

The housing is in the pits relative to year over year price decline. If however you go back to current year over 2003 it is not half bad. Name your poison.

I would agree that it is a terrible place for residental construction at this point. TX is much better.

[desertsun41]

Originally Posted by olecapt

Name your poison.

I would agree that it is a terrible place for residental construction at this point. TX is much better.

Name your poison. Doesn't that just about tell the tale. It really sucks too.

[desertsun41]

Originally Posted by mommyjnny

Thanks....that is what I figured. I know here in Illinois where I am it is bad. The housing crisis has gotten so bad that builders that we know are foreclosing on what they have built because they cannot sell. Some builders have built..... the outside is gorgeous and the inside is studs only because they cannot afford to do anymore........ We are trying to leave this mess.

I dont think I have heard of any builders here in Vegas selling at auctions or foreclosing on anything. Most of them are much too big and strong. But make no mistake, even the big boys are hurting real bad.

I hear more offerings of free full appliance packages or landscaping upgrades. Toll was offering a $40,000 built in pool for free.

I was just at a customers home in Anthem today and they had an incredable view. I was looking down on quite a few abandaned tracks that was just a bunch of sub divided parcels by one layer of cinder block. Pulte even pulled out the construction trailers. It is kinda sad. Not that I have any sympathy for the Pultes and Tolls and KBs and so on. I would sleep better if they all bit the dust and was burried 6' under with all the banks. Bring back the small builders like Coleman before Toll gobbled them up.