[guinnessjim]

Originally Posted by redwhale

Again, in keeping with the thread I have no beef with your food for thought AA. All I gotta say is that it smacks of the same resistance to learning that was proudly proclaimed when school districts wanted to ban the works of Kurt Vonnegut. I've lost the book, but in the intro to Slaughterhouse Five, a school official loudly exclaims that he does not read books. You don't want to learn another language, so be it. You realize your argument is that, ultimately, you don't want to better yourself and expand your knowledge base. You don't want to open avenues to more clientele with your pool service because learning is hard.

It's all your call but it's still the weakest of arguments I always hear on this matter. And btw, I did clearly write SPEAK and not comprehensively understand multiple languages. I understand literacy isn't equal across the world, but functional literacy is still valuable.

personally, i don't think AA's msg was as you present (aka learning is hard). there are many ways to better oneself....just because a person doesn't choose learning a second language as one of them doesn't mean they don't strive to learn.

and although you make an great argument for learning multiple languages, i still personally believe that it is important to have a common language. even if you don't speak it remotely well, we all need to be able to communicate w/ each other. and for better or worse, that language should be english (esp. in this country). again, i am not saying that we shouldn't strive for speaking multiple languages. i am always taken aback at how well many of the asian or european or latin americans i have worked with can speak a non-native tongue.

now, i have a slight bias here being in the scientific community. for us to cohesively share ideas and techniques etc. english is the common language. manuscripts are still obviously published in other languages, but in the end, for the good of all researchers, english is the common language and any paper of merit will end up published in english so that we can all access it. it is too confusing to do this any other way....and maybe that makes my view of the bigger picture skewed...but it does work.

but i would rather talk about food....and now that i think about it, i believe the shawarma at Paymon's is pretty freakin' tasty!

[BUGBULLY]

Caspian Market?

[redwhale]

GJ,

I'm glad you put it in scientific terms because I bet you had to learn C or C++ at some point or just Matlab to put calculations into a readable format at some time or another. Let's stick with just a monopoly theory and say that Microsoft made everything better. For awhile, that would be correct but down deep you know that Unix and Linux are most robust tools to get the job done. We have a dominant format in Windows but we both know there are other means out there to accomplish the same goals. Same with all languages, programming or linguistics. Even on a more superficial level, just metric vs. English scale. Everything is done on a metric level scientifically but we cling to the English standard because of nationalism. What use is that other than just to beat our chests and try to proclaim our outdated way is better?

All in all, I think we'd be better off having this convo over a beer. Might I again suggest that the Crowne and Anchor be the best pub for you, in respect to the thread.

[guinnessjim]

the metric argument illustrates my point beautifully. really, the entire world should be metric.

look at what happens when there isn't a universal language....good example is the NASA mars climate orbiter....that was a $125million dollar loss because part of the team used the english system (lockheed martin) while the rest of the NASA team used the metric system...the result...years of hard work lost because of a unit mismatch (i did my 1st postdoc at JPL...they are still a bit sore about it...not about me working there...well maybe; but also about the whole metric thing).

unfortunately i don't fully get your initial reference...i am a biologist. but i agree that an open source code is better, as it allows everyone to play, not just the proprietary people...but that is talking about a universal language again isn't it?


and i am always up for a beer, and the crowne's guinness is delicious

[redwhale]

I guess my point could be lost in that you feel that the metric system should be the universal standard (which I agree with despite the fact it counters my argument somewhat) and I feel that there are multiple ways to get an answer, an analogy for our differences in viewing language. My cohorts and I still laugh about the very incident you talk about because we ran into the same problems in the nuclear realm. The Navy taught us to use English units but when it came down to it, we always used metric to split the atom. We still got by in the end by recognizing that there is no universal language, just the ones we choose to adhere to. Same with our current debate.

I guess coming from different scientific realms will temper what I was trying to put out but it ultimately aids what I have been trying to say. We may all have different ways of vocalizing our views, in the end we'll have to try to understand what the other side is saying before true understanding emerges.

[AA702]

Originally Posted by redwhale

Again, in keeping with the thread I have no beef with your food for thought AA. All I gotta say is that it smacks of the same resistance to learning that was proudly proclaimed when school districts wanted to ban the works of Kurt Vonnegut. I've lost the book, but in the intro to Slaughterhouse Five, a school official loudly exclaims that he does not read books. You don't want to learn another language, so be it. You realize your argument is that, ultimately, you don't want to better yourself and expand your knowledge base. You don't want to open avenues to more clientele with your pool service because learning is hard.

It's all your call but it's still the weakest of arguments I always hear on this matter. And btw, I did clearly write SPEAK and not comprehensively understand multiple languages. I understand literacy isn't equal across the world, but functional literacy is still valuable.

I personally speak more than one language, but my Spanish if very broken. I really have no desire to learn another language since I do not think I have to, since we are in America and English is the official language. I do not want to expand my customer base to another group of people that do not speak English just for profits sake. I find that my Spanish speaking customer base that I have, does speak enough English that I can do business with them. Anyway.. this is getting way to much off topic.

[desertsun41]

Originally Posted by Desert Palm

When?.... When everyone here started piling on Deserst sun on every thread hanging on his every word. I have seen it repeatedly here and find it all offiensive! You can say what you want, but I see all the things said to him/here about anything remotely unPC he/she says!

All I am saying .. is don't be so touchy here!
Thank you BB. Spanish is my second language. My BIL is Mexican. My dentist is Mexican. So I dare anyone here to call me racist!

Well said DesertPalm and with precision accuracy too. The very few who question why this was turned into a racist thing are the ones who did.

You can dump me in the middle of Thailand and I would never miss American food because I am so crazy about Thai food. I wonder if that would make me a traitor though. A Benedict Arnold of sorts.

[desertsun41]

Originally Posted by redwhale

Oh, I don't know, President Palm. Maybe when DS41 dug him/herself deeper by saying
I belong to a variety of groups but the one where everyone complains about Mexicans, not so much. I'm sure everyone complains about Mexicans as DS41 said because it just makes sense. There's so much to complain about, I think I saw a Mexican flag flying on St. Patrick's Day amongst all the Irish Flags. Why can't these people just give up their culture and adapt already? You know they speak multiple languages, unlike most Americans who proudly display their ignorance at knowing only 1. Who do these people think they are making us look dumb?

EVERYONE complains about Mexicans because that's who we are. We ALL pick a race and just complain because that's the type of person you are, after all you are part of the collective everyone, are you not?

Remember, the next time you eat a delicious shawarma, which is a middle eastern food, I hope you feed that 2nd face too because you are supporting terrorism. If you go to the Red Square in Mandalay Bay or, let's say any Chinese place, well you're obviously a communist. Put that nacho down, you unpatriotic fool! Support the EVERYONE!

Very very very good post Redwhale. You said it better then all of us. I give you 3 REP stars for that one.

I have a cast iron stomach but it does not agree with Chinese or Mexican. I dont even like the way it looks. But I am quite the connoisseur of a wide varity of ethinic foods from all over the world. In my mind I do not link a food to it's country of origin but link it to my taste buds only.

My comment about how so many people bad mouth Mexicans but support them by eating their food I still see as wrong. But I will not put anyone down for it. Never.

[guinnessjim]

Originally Posted by desertsun41

Well said DesertPalm and with precision accuracy too. The very few who question why this was turned into a racist thing are the ones who did.

You can dump me in the middle of Thailand and I would never miss American food because I am so crazy about Thai food. I wonder if that would make me a traitor though. A Benedict Arnold of sorts.

what are you talking about, man? i was the one who asked when it became a race thing....it was my post desertpalm was responding to? what did i say (or anybody else for that matter) that could have possibly turned the conversation?

i am beginning to think that your stomach isn't the only thing that is sensitive.

[aqualung8705]

Originally Posted by redwhale

If you go to the Red Square in Mandalay Bay or, let's say any Chinese place, well you're obviously a communist.

Russia is no longer communist, the Soviet Union broke a long time ago. Besides, the food at the Red Square is not any where near being authentic Russian food. I should know, I'm Russian/Ukrainian on my mother's side of the family, and grew up eating my grandmother's wonderful cooking. The only authentic Russian restaurant here in Vegas is Artem over on Flamingo & Decatur.