[Steve-o]

Originally Posted by Buzz123

You don't even live here and you're an expert. Go figure. I think you've been watching too many scary movies. What a creep.

First off, dont call me a creep. Secondly, your logic is as retarded as, well.... nevermind. So, tell me, Mr. Expert, are you not entitled to know about, say, NYC's architecture since you dont live there? Sounds ridiculous, right? Unless you have something to donate to this thread, that isnt completely groundless/useless, I suggest shutting up.

[Buzz123]

Only 8 to 10 deaths in the US per year by snakebite and most of those are young males that are drunk and mess with the snake.

KTNV ABC,Channel 13,Las Vegas,Nevada,News,Weather,Sports,Entertainment,KTN V.com,Action News .:. With Summer Comes Snake Bites (http://www.ktnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8444462 - broken link)

Look at these stats. 18,000 snake bites are drunks, and if I read it correctly, 18,000 are people playing with snakes such as snake handlers and certain religions. That's a lot of people messing with snakes. Other sites that look more "official" say 6,000 to 8,000 total bites per year in the U.S. (few of which are in Nevada), and approximately 1 in 1,000 is ever fatal.

GORP Health - Snake Bite FAQ - Epidemiology & The Risk of Snakebite

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/org_nws/NW...0%20Minton.PDF

First aid for snake bites.

First aid for snake bites - by Marie Gerber - Helium

Nevada State Museum Newsletter - May/June 2002

[dynimagelv]

I been told that when ya get snakebit in the arse ya REALLY know who your friends are......

[Buzz123]

Originally Posted by Steve-o

I research and study venomous critters, including keeping many as pets. Wildlife in NV is 100 times more dangerous than wildlife in IL.

That's not a creep?

BTW: I grew up in the east. You have more creepy crawly things there and in your neck of the woods in Illinois than you'll ever find in Nevada. But so what? Scaring people with things that they don't need to fear is not only creepy, it shows nothing but evil intention on your part. Go away. Bother the people in IL.

[Steve-o]

Originally Posted by guinnessjim

hate to bust your bubble here steve-o...but you are mistaken. and for some one who claims to research these things, you present some dubious claims.

first off, i don't know that i ever heard of someone dying from a black widow bite or a bark scorpion sting in NV (yes, i know the bark scorpion does carry a punch and is responsible for some deaths, but i don't recall hearing of any here). in fact, near as i could tell, almost no deaths from bark scorpion stings (aside from anaphylactic shock) have been reported in US since the late 60s eMedicine - Scorpion Envenomation : Article Excerpt by Sean P Bush.

Yes, this is true. However, many near deaths have occurred, and lives only saved thanks to anti-venin. Like I asked OleCapt, why would there be the need for anti-venin if the scorpion wasnt dangerous? W/o anti-venin, there would have been untold dozens (maybe hundreds) of deaths in the US from a bark scorpion sting, especially children/elderly who were stung. In fact, a few years ago in AZ I grabbed a newspaper and an infant from Tramanto had to be rushed to the hospital with life-threatening symptoms. Had there not been anti-venin available, he might have died.

Originally Posted by guinnessjim

and as for the widow, while definitely poisonous, they are not aggressive, rarely inject more than a small amount of venom, and have very few deaths associated w/ them (basing this on the fact that i have spent most of my life in widow country and have never heard of a death).

Yes, youre correct again. I never claimed that they kill people all the time... did you miss my "POTENTIALLY LETHAL" statement? And yes, they can kill you. Its been debated, but many believe widows have the most toxic venom of any critter in North America last I read. And theyre not poisonous, theyre venomous. BIG difference. Ive kept many species of widows (L. variolus, L. mactans, L. hesperus) and I can concur theyre not very DEFENSIVE, not aggressive.

Originally Posted by guinnessjim

now, lets talk about what could be hiding up north:

the brown recluse has been found as for north as north eastern IL and southern WI. while there is debate about its frequency and if the organisms found represent an expanded range or just 'travelers' the fact remains they are there Monmouth College - Biology Department - Dr. Cramer - Brown Recluse Spider Project...and people are getting bit Brown Recluse spider bite. Increasing incidents in...[IMJ Ill Med J. 1974] - PubMed Result. personally, i wouldn't worry about them, but to say they are not there is inaccurate.

Ive searched hi and lo for the Brown Recluse in northern IL and havent found a dang thing. If you want to find tons of recluses, head to TX, KS, AR, MO, etc. Their numbers up here (if any at all) are sooooooo miniscule that its not even worth talking about. And theyre not deadly (they carry cytotoxic venom), but if youre allergic, you can develop severe lesions, yes. I had a 4 year old nephew in Manhattan, KS, get bit by a recluse, he was completely fine. It all depends on the individual's reaction to their venom.

Originally Posted by guinnessjim

just as it is inaccurate to dismiss the incident of mosquito or tick born pathogens such as WNV or lyme disease (among others) between the two regions. long story short, incidence of either is an order of magnitude higher in your neck of the woods.

Yes, this is true. The occurance of ticks and mosquitos is higher in my part of the country, but cmon. How many millions are bit by mosquitos and ticks every single day and how many develop problems? Compare those odds against rattlesnake bites, scorpion stings, etc. And WNV has many reported cases in the SW, in case you wanted to know.

My whole point was that if a bug-o-phobe in MI has issues, then the critters that call the desert home will strike a lot more fear into their hearts, were they to see them. Thats all. I think most would rather deal with mosquitos
and the occasional tick rather than scorpions, giant centipedes, etc. Agreed?

[Steve-o]

Originally Posted by Buzz123

That's not a creep?

BTW: I grew up in the east. You have more creepy crawly things there and in your neck of the woods in Illinois than you'll ever find in Nevada. But so what? Scaring people with things that they don't need to fear is not only creepy, it shows nothing but evil intention on your part. Go away. Bother the people in IL.

Studying venomous critters is not "creepy". Why dont you call Greg Fry or Dr. Sean Bush "creepy" while youre at it. Such ignorance....

Yes, there might be more bugs here in IL, Im not contesting that at all. My point was that if you think the bugs in MI are creepy, the OP is in for a whole different shock when she moves to the desert. If there is ANYONE on earth who wants people to understand and not be afraid of venomous critters, its me. Dont give me that BS that Im "showing evil intentions". Speaking of creeps....

[guinnessjim]

Originally Posted by Buzz123

That's not a creep?

BTW: I grew up in the east. You have more creepy crawly things there and in your neck of the woods in Illinois than you'll ever find in Nevada. But so what? Scaring people with things that they don't need to fear is not only creepy, it shows nothing but evil intention on your part. Go away. Bother the people in IL.

hey now buzz...i used to keep several species of tarantula, scorpion and centipede as 'pets' (not that you could really pet most of them...maybe some of the Aphonopelmas, but most were for viewing...even though they spent most of their time out of site in burrows/hiding spots). i'll give you that it is an odd hobby, but creep is a bit on the harsh side.

[guinnessjim]

Originally Posted by Steve-o

Studying venomous critters is not "creepy". Why dont you call Greg Fry or Dr. Sean Bush "creepy" while youre at it. Such ignorance....

Yes, there might be more bugs here in IL, Im not contesting that at all. My point was that if you think the bugs in MI are creepy, the OP is in for a whole different shock when she moves to the desert. If there is ANYONE on earth who wants people to understand and not be afraid of venomous critters, its me. Dont give me that BS that Im "showing evil intentions". Speaking of creeps....

i will concede that if you are truly afraid of "bugs", the ones out here carry a bigger shock factor (did see some big ole' wolf spiders under bridges up in MKE, though). but in terms of numbers, humid locales will almost always have more...and since i am more fascinated than fearful, i will take the desert.

[Steve-o]

Originally Posted by guinnessjim

hey now buzz...i used to keep several species of tarantula, scorpion and centipede as 'pets' (not that you could really pet most of them...maybe some of the Aphonopelmas, but most were for viewing...even though they spent most of their time out of site in burrows/hiding spots). i'll give you that it is an odd hobby, but creep is a bit on the harsh side.

Aphonopelmas are nicer than most other animals out there. Ive kept a few as well (hentzi, etc), scooped right out of their burrows. This one here used to just sit on my lap while I watched TV, never moved at all, total sweety. Found this one in Missouri...

[guinnessjim]

Originally Posted by Steve-o

Yes, this is true. The occurance of ticks and mosquitos is higher in my part of the country, but cmon. How many millions are bit by mosquitos and ticks every single day and how many develop problems? Compare those odds against rattlesnake bites, scorpion stings, etc. And WNV has many reported cases in the SW, in case you wanted to know.

My whole point was that if a bug-o-phobe in MI has issues, then the critters that call the desert home will strike a lot more fear into their hearts, were they to see them. Thats all. I think most would rather deal with mosquitos
and the occasional tick rather than scorpions, giant centipedes, etc. Agreed?

WNV reported yes....but at an order of magnitude less frequency.

as for the need for antivenin for scorps...yeah, that is true. but it is needed for rattlers as well. and for all the years i have lived here (meaning the SW) i don't know anyone who needed to be receive treatment for either due to a bite (snake) or sting. granted, when i lived in LA my dog took a bite from a big rattler (based on the distance of the fangs) and needed a pants-load of anti-venin...but that was LA, not here.

and i would absolutely rather deal w/ 'bugs' that have no interest in me than ones that want me for a snack .

*and steve...you know the centipedes here aren't giant when compared w/ the tropical Scolopendrids (esp that peruvian beast!) but that is all relative i guess and i am sure most ppl would run from any of them. really, my Scolo's were the only thing i ever kept that i had a fear of (the arachs had my respect, not fear)...so freaking fast and seriously mean. talk about predators....