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Old 02-13-2007, 07:26 PM
 
32 posts, read 521,221 times
Reputation: 65

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If you put 2+2 together you would know I want in-ground pool with nice landscaping. How could you tell? Just look at the picture in my original post. I said I want a pool and backyard that looks like this.

New houses seem to be a really good deals but even if they offer you front landscaping and upgrades inside the house, you still have to consider between $70k-$100k for the backyard with an inground pool.

I have looked at about 25 houses with pools and I say 10 of them have $100k backyards. I could be wrong but it does not seem you get the money for the pool back when you sell your house. Hence I think I am gonna go the used house route (with pool already built).
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Old 02-13-2007, 07:55 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 21,039,425 times
Reputation: 2661
In Las Vegas reasonable pool and landscaping will return 50 cents on the dollar. $250K backyards tend to take a much worse beating. But at 100K you will get back at least half...maybe a little more. Pool homes also sell quicker and easier.

I would not live in Vegas without one.

The "ceramic" pools that are hoisted into place are a way to save some money. I believe they cost about 75% of a gunnite pool. Limitations though on shape and size. Result is very nice when well done. I don't know how well the hold up...but after 6 or 7 years they look OK.

Ohh and big boulders are not inexpensive. In place a large boulder may well cost $1000. Takes big equipment to move those things.
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Old 03-03-2007, 05:27 AM
 
23 posts, read 617,833 times
Reputation: 75
Default Ceramic Fiberglass Pool Info

Ok, So I think I am the perfect guy to post some light on an inexpensive good pool solution. My pool was finished yesterday. I spent around $23,120 total and I got a very elegant looking small pool area that doesn't look cheap (I am very concerned with asthetics) AND it is the MOST energy efficient solution I found.

I bought a 9'x16' (4' deep) kidney shaped ceramic core fiberglass Viking pool, the "Maui". Viking Pools are the best fiberglass pools out hands down in my opinion and Renaissance Pools of NV is the biggest most experienced installer. I did my homework before walking into their Blue Diamond location.

http://www.vikingpools.net/designs_kidney.htm (broken link)
http://renaissancepools.com/pages/pooldesigns.html

I walked in day after July 4th, '06 and told the rep. Mike I was interested in a pool called the "Clear Water" 10'x20' or comparable. As easily noted by this thread people just don't know much about pools and they aren't gonna say ooh, you gotta cookie cutter fiberglass pool. Nobody notices and I just explain how energy efficient they are compared to cement pools and anyone cost/energy conscience such as myself would not be well served by a cement pool anyway. These are the latest greatest technology in pools and I'm proud to have made a smart choice especially after seeing the pool completed. Viking has the largest selection of styles and sizes for fiberglass anyway and I easily found many I liked.

__________
MAINTENANCE COSTS COMPARISON*
Below are the approximate costs for maintaining a
concrete/gunite pool vs. a fiberglass pool for 10 years.

CONCRETE/GUNITE POOLS
Acid bath - at least 3 ($200/each) $600.00
Remarciting - once (average lifetime for plaster is about 7-8 years) $2,500.00
Tile replacement (with Remarciting) $650.00
Chemicals - $40.00/month for 10 yrs. $4,800.00
Electricity - $20.00/month for 10 yrs. $2,400.00
Pool Service -$30.00/month for 10 yrs. $3,600.00
Estimated Maintenance Costs for 10 years $ 14,550.00

FIBERGLASS POOLS
Acid bath - not required $0.00
Remarciting - not required $0.00
Tile replacement - not required $0.00
Chemicals - $15.00/month for 10 yrs. 1,800.00
Electricity - $12.00/month for 10 yrs. 1,440.00
Pool Service -(it takes you 3 hrs a month to maintain the fiberglass pool) $0.00
Estimated Maintenance Costs for 10 years $3,240.00
ESTIMATED CONCRETE MAINTENANCE COSTS FOR 10 YEARS $14,550.00
ESTIMATED FIBERGLASS MAINTENANCE COSTS FOR 10 YEARS $-3,240.00

YOUR SAVINGS $ 11,310.00
___________


Anyway, Mike soon realized I didn't want to pay $30k for a pool. I asked average pricing and he said $50k as people just finance it and get what they want. I wanted to pay under $15 but I soon realized that was impossible to do with any sort of quality.

Yea, I looked into above ground, diggin my own hole, inground liners, etc... it ain't worth it and it's a can of worms. $500 or less gets you an above ground pool at Target. I have a buddy that buys one every year they work great but look funny, literally funny. I almost enjoy chillin in it more cuz it's so classically funny, hah.

Mike then mentioned they had this 4th of July special offering the small size Viking pools for like a $7k discount on a complete package. I hung out for over an hour and did some calculations and although I wasn't exactly ready to buy I really knew the cost of these things and I knew the deal was good. After Mike helped me pick out the silver package which has everything I wanted minus a pool heater which I wasn't sure which one I wanted anyway I was ready to give a deposit for $1k right then and there and sign up for the Maui. I ended up cozying up to the idea of a smaller pool as they look normal in small yards, my yard is 20'x40' with a 12'x13' L piece bending around the corner of the house and are also less $ to heat and maintain. I chose the Maui out of the 3 choices cuz it looks the biggest being oval instead of square-ish.

I chose one up from Standard package but I’ll list both as this is the basics:

3' feet perimeter of Kool Deck (this stuff is killer it doesn’t get hot):
http://www.mortex.com/products/kd.html
100’ electrical, 25’ plumbing, manual vacuum, brush, skimmer net, thermometer, solar blanket, hose & pole, test kit.
Standard dig (6’ of access or larger)
Pump & Filter
Everything above $18k

Additional upgrade from Standard to Silver which I got was addition of fiber optic color wheel light (yea it’s cool looking and has 4 colors), salt water chlorinator, and auto vacuum.
Everything above $21k

I chose white instead of pale blue because although Viking claims to resist fading they don’t warranty it for good reason so I figured white wouldn’t fade. If you want a really nice finish they have gold or platinum packages with additional finishes that resist fading, water features, and pretty mosaic art work. I was going for basic and cost effective so I wasn’t game. The deal was actually supposed to include the nicer finish but since the place was closing in 30 min and it takes an hour to do the paper work Mike suggested the last 2 pools on special wouldn’t sell and I should come back in the AM. I made him reiterate that and said ok. Well of course the last 2 sold and we had some interesting conversations all next day but in the end all I lost out of the deal was the prettier finish I was supposed to get which I am ok with cuz I would rather get the deal I got than none at all. Seriously I saw spas go out of there for $18k. I kept my mouth shut about my pricing on my pool when I saw that. I did check out Hawaiian Pools after the fact and they were about the same pricing but I like the Viking pools a lot better.

Anyway the install was painless, super fast and professional. Renaissance’s building coordinator Viki is AMAZING. Talk about getting stuff done she was way more than helpful as I tried to coordinate the build from out of town in Santa Barbara where I live most of the time.

Couple things to remember when the pool goes in:

1. Design your placement with a pro or spend way too much time on it. I had Mike help and I couldn’t have put the pool in a better place. I feel it made a huge difference in my yard.
2. Be there when they place pool into the hole. I had to make ‘em come back and center it the way I wanted. That woulda been bad had I not caught the discrepancy.
3. I knew I needed to be there to design additional decking for the very affordable cost of $6.75 a sq ft or so and to also choose my deck color on site. I ended up taking some of the allocated 3’ perimeter that snugged up against my wall and moving it over to the stairs area. This gave me a 1 foot space off the wall to run my drip line and to walk around the pool during deck construction. For a bargain of $1000 more I added just over 150 sq ft and with the help of the decking guy Liko, we created the perfect deck pattern. He was a pro and spent some serious time helping me out. One thing I noticed about Renaissance is all their people are pros. It’s was nice to deal with people that know their trade well.
4. Quick note – I ended up choosing the deck color that closest matched my wall and I wouldn’t have had known that that’s what I wanted without being there to match it.

After construction I noticed my white pool matched well with the white flex joints and white drain in the Deck and since the deck kinda goes with my cement wall everything looked planned as if it was designed by an architect or something which is what I was goin for.
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Old 03-03-2007, 05:29 AM
 
23 posts, read 617,833 times
Reputation: 75
LANDSCAPE INFO:

Prior to the pool install I had grabbed over a dozen huge rocks (biggest I could carry) and thrown them over the wall into my yard to get some free décor. Last Oct I had gone to Target and bought the last 2 $100+ 8-10 ft Queen Palms for $30 each due to cold season comin on and the sales guy just bro-ing me out with a killer deal. I put the two trees, with help from 3 target employees, out the back of my pathfinder and watched the tips of the trees drag down the road behind me as I drove down Warm Springs to my house. A little cardboard laid down in back and I made my SUV into pick-up truck with a camper shell for hauling trees.

I then spent 3 days (15+ hours on site at Home Depot & Star Nursery) learning everything about palms and desert plants I could and how to pick what would grow in my area, how to plant them and also… how to install my auto drip system. No, I hadn’t planted a damn thing in my life so this was a huge leap away from my area of expertice.

First thing first, I had to plant the Queens. Next time I would just rent roto-tiller but let’s just say by the time I was done planting the 2 trees I realized I might just not need to buy gravel cuz of the amount of rock I raked out in 2 holes alone. After learning about invasive and uninvasive roots and essentially trees are bad next to pools (although Queens have uninvasive roots they will drop fruit in time), I decided on the perfect placement of the palms.

Next I picked out 2 Desert Spoons ($1.88 each on sale at Star Nursery) and a red Mexican Bird of Paradise ($18) for in between the two palms which now graced the other side of the yard nicely. Two red yuccas ($5 each) went in the corner of the yard behind/next to the pool. I filled in the last open space with 2 3-4 ft California Fan Palms ($18 each! Home Depot) placed leaning every so slightly away from each other in true oasis fashion.

Next came placing and installing the drip system. Just go to Star Nursery with your garden layout (I drew everything out) and everyone there is an expert, seriously. I think I could be a landscaper now cuz of the employees there. I used bender board to partition a gravel walkway used from gravel taken out after moving my fence to make the additional L shaped yard I have.

I placed my big rocks around in a nice display and spread out all the raked up rocks I had left over from digging the 9 holes needed for my plants in a presentable manner. Lastly I had a perfect 13’x 13’ S shaped space for grass (maybe artificial) or more deck if and when I could afford it. So rather then leave it rocky dirt. I raked the dirt clean of rocks as possible and used the left over sand from my pool as a filler and watered and raked it compact and even. Eventually I will put in more bender board to distinctly separate this area from the rest.

$21,300k pool package and water fountain spigot
$420 NV pool code gate
$1000 additional Kool Deck
$150 plants and fertilizer
$70 tools (pick, shovel, rake, pipe cutters, pipe glue)
$100 or so for drip system
$50 edging & stakes (I bought some flimsy stuff that I couldn’t get the weak stakes into my rocky soil so I upgraded)

All in all I spent 10 days and probably around $23,120 and I have a very presentable energy efficient practically zero maintenance pool-scaped yard.

Things I saved money on and/or can upgrade later:

•I did all the landscape labor myself with no prior knowledge.
•Free big natural style river rocks as decor.
•Instead of paying for gravel & weed cloth around my planter areas I just used my natural rocks I rake out from plantingwhich of course matched the big ones I already had. You’ll notice the bigger rocks rake closer to the edges so it actually starts looking pretty nice if you rake it right.
•I used 15 wheel barrels of free sand from pool install on top the dirt that I was gonna deck over or put grass on. This made the space usable as I compacted it and raked it smooth and I can always put something over it later.
•I re-used gravel after moving my fence and made a matching path to the front yard.
•I got almost every plant at a steal by shopping around and I saved time by learning that Palms grow better if you plant them in their pots.
•Instead of building some sort of expensive time consuming wall as I originally planned I used $20 of sunken matching bender board to edge my planter area and I can always put in the wall if I want.
•I had a water fountain spigot put in with a footing in case I want to install a huge water fountain in the future but for now I don’t want to spend the money. This cost like $200-$300 more but is smart in case I want to upgrade w/o having to dig up past work.

Overall I am more than happy with the look and feel of my pool. Please keep in mind the cost of just my pool was $7000 less than normal and prices are only going up. I got very lucky with my plant prices and landscape materials as well. Feel free to e-mail me questions. I’ll answer when I get a sec. If you end up wanting to bargain on of these e-mail me first and I’ll give you some more info.

-Ryan
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Old 03-03-2007, 09:31 AM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 21,039,425 times
Reputation: 2661
Hey congratulations...that was a really neat adventure. And I suspect you may actually get your money back out...or very close.

A variant on the theme for small lots is a spool. Basically two adjoining pools one hot and one cold. You have the cool pool for summer cooling and the hot pool for winter spaing. Probably cost 10 or 15 grand more than your minimalist solution.

The numbers on expenses are overstated on the Renaissance analysis. My 20x40 pool runs well less than half that. I have never acid washed it for instance. It needs it now and some plaster repair in one spot...but it has been in for 14 years. I don't spend $150 a year on chemicals. My pool does have an automatic cover. That cuts way down on chemicals and electric...it does however require a new cover every four years at about $2200.
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Old 03-03-2007, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
8,409 posts, read 14,337,714 times
Reputation: 10613
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryancomp View Post
LANDSCAPE INFO:

Prior to the pool install I had grabbed over a dozen huge rocks (biggest I could carry) and thrown them over the wall into my yard to get some free décor. Last Oct I had gone to Target and bought the last 2 $100+ 8-10 ft Queen Palms for $30 each due to cold season comin on and the sales guy just bro-ing me out with a killer deal. I put the two trees, with help from 3 target employees, out the back of my pathfinder and watched the tips of the trees drag down the road behind me as I drove down Warm Springs to my house. A little cardboard laid down in back and I made my SUV into pick-up truck with a camper shell for hauling trees.

I then spent 3 days (15+ hours on site at Home Depot & Star Nursery) learning everything about palms and desert plants I could and how to pick what would grow in my area, how to plant them and also… how to install my auto drip system. No, I hadn’t planted a damn thing in my life so this was a huge leap away from my area of expertice.

First thing first, I had to plant the Queens. Next time I would just rent roto-tiller but let’s just say by the time I was done planting the 2 trees I realized I might just not need to buy gravel cuz of the amount of rock I raked out in 2 holes alone. After learning about invasive and uninvasive roots and essentially trees are bad next to pools (although Queens have uninvasive roots they will drop fruit in time), I decided on the perfect placement of the palms.

Next I picked out 2 Desert Spoons ($1.88 each on sale at Star Nursery) and a red Mexican Bird of Paradise ($18) for in between the two palms which now graced the other side of the yard nicely. Two red yuccas ($5 each) went in the corner of the yard behind/next to the pool. I filled in the last open space with 2 3-4 ft California Fan Palms ($18 each! Home Depot) placed leaning every so slightly away from each other in true oasis fashion.

Next came placing and installing the drip system. Just go to Star Nursery with your garden layout (I drew everything out) and everyone there is an expert, seriously. I think I could be a landscaper now cuz of the employees there. I used bender board to partition a gravel walkway used from gravel taken out after moving my fence to make the additional L shaped yard I have.

I placed my big rocks around in a nice display and spread out all the raked up rocks I had left over from digging the 9 holes needed for my plants in a presentable manner. Lastly I had a perfect 13’x 13’ S shaped space for grass (maybe artificial) or more deck if and when I could afford it. So rather then leave it rocky dirt. I raked the dirt clean of rocks as possible and used the left over sand from my pool as a filler and watered and raked it compact and even. Eventually I will put in more bender board to distinctly separate this area from the rest.

$21,300k pool package and water fountain spigot
$420 NV pool code gate
$1000 additional Kool Deck
$150 plants and fertilizer
$70 tools (pick, shovel, rake, pipe cutters, pipe glue)
$100 or so for drip system
$50 edging & stakes (I bought some flimsy stuff that I couldn’t get the weak stakes into my rocky soil so I upgraded)

All in all I spent 10 days and probably around $23,120 and I have a very presentable energy efficient practically zero maintenance pool-scaped yard.

Things I saved money on and/or can upgrade later:

•I did all the landscape labor myself with no prior knowledge.
•Free big natural style river rocks as decor.
•Instead of paying for gravel & weed cloth around my planter areas I just used my natural rocks I rake out from plantingwhich of course matched the big ones I already had. You’ll notice the bigger rocks rake closer to the edges so it actually starts looking pretty nice if you rake it right.
•I used 15 wheel barrels of free sand from pool install on top the dirt that I was gonna deck over or put grass on. This made the space usable as I compacted it and raked it smooth and I can always put something over it later.
•I re-used gravel after moving my fence and made a matching path to the front yard.
•I got almost every plant at a steal by shopping around and I saved time by learning that Palms grow better if you plant them in their pots.
•Instead of building some sort of expensive time consuming wall as I originally planned I used $20 of sunken matching bender board to edge my planter area and I can always put in the wall if I want.
•I had a water fountain spigot put in with a footing in case I want to install a huge water fountain in the future but for now I don’t want to spend the money. This cost like $200-$300 more but is smart in case I want to upgrade w/o having to dig up past work.

Overall I am more than happy with the look and feel of my pool. Please keep in mind the cost of just my pool was $7000 less than normal and prices are only going up. I got very lucky with my plant prices and landscape materials as well. Feel free to e-mail me questions. I’ll answer when I get a sec. If you end up wanting to bargain on of these e-mail me first and I’ll give you some more info.

-Ryan
Ryan, I am impressed. I guess pools are like everything else. Learn as much as you can in advance and shop hard. You did a good job for your money. One of the nicest things is you know how everything was done. If you have a problem down the road, you'll know how to fix it.

I've never owned a pool but I'm studying it! How did you learn to do the chemicals? I've asked before if there was a pool school somewhere but no luck. I've read a lot about the fiberglass pools being less expensive to maintain and cheaper on chemicals. What's the downside of fiberglass? I always look at those stacks of pools off Boulder Highway in Henderson. I watched an installation video with the pool and the big crane!

One more question. How did you learn to do the bubbler watering system? How do you know if you are watering too much or not enough?

Your pool sounds lovely! You should post a picture!
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Old 03-03-2007, 02:37 PM
 
23 posts, read 617,833 times
Reputation: 75
Olecapt, thanks for balancing my post with real world data. I heard the fiberglass pools were not to hot 14 yrs ago Got any info on pool heaters? My pool is 2300 gallons and I can't decide the cheapest way to heat it. It's 52degrees now, ouch.

Yellowsnow, Renaissance has pool school! Naw, but they have this really nice guy Jose come teach you how to maintain your pool. It's easy especially if you get the auto salt water chlorinating system I did.

I learned how much to water my plants from Ron in garden at Home Depot on decatur and Tropicana. He's there 2-7 usually and he spent a lot of time helping me pick out plants and telling me how much water to give off the drip line.

I will post a pic when I get back to Vegas with my camera. I actually live in Santa Barbara and rent out rooms in Vegas so I opted for the zero maintainance solution whenever I could.
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Old 03-03-2007, 03:22 PM
 
23 posts, read 617,833 times
Reputation: 75
Oops, forgot to address the downside of fiberglass question - Let's see...
You get a cookie cutter style pool meaning it isn't an original design. The color can fade. I surf, so I am familiar with pigment fading on fiberglass surfboards. Um, you don't have the traditional tile feel with a fiberglass pool that you get with cement pools. I like the feel of the fibgerglass and you can get custom mosiac tile put on the fiberglass pools anyway. You can see how it looks at a Renaissance store. If you don't get a Viking pool you might have strength issues or blistering problems. From what I have seen Viking pools don't do this and they back it up with an incredible lifetime warranty. The only other thing I can think of... is... have you seen the movie Dog Town Boys? Well, I wouldn't want to skate on my empty fiberglass pool, hahah. Good luck.
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Old 03-03-2007, 04:05 PM
 
13 posts, read 151,430 times
Reputation: 22
I loved your info on the fiberglass pool. I would very much want to see the picture of your pool. Do you think you could post it soon? Thanks again and I think I will have questions for you after I see your pic.
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Old 03-03-2007, 04:48 PM
 
23 posts, read 617,833 times
Reputation: 75
Default pics

I am planning to be back in vegas by March 8-10 or so. House is in Blue Diamond / Decatur area and you can see it or take pics yourself if you want, hah. I have tenants so I'd have to talk to them but otherwise I'll shoot some when I am back out there. I worked 8-14 hour days on this for 10 days straight until the last second I was there and it still needs some edging put in so I didn't get to pics yet. If you're dying to see it I'll give ya address to peak over the wall. I'm on a corner so you can.
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