[Golfinnova]

Originally Posted by CityWatcher

I swore I had an account here once, but I seemed to have registered it over an old email address I never have. *grumble, grumble*

This thread has had a lot of negativity by some people about unemployment. If you look at that 7% unemployment figure and then remove the construction jobs, we're doing pretty well. If you don't believe me, let's compare Vegas of the past year or so to America's most tourism-dominated city, Orlando FL:

* Vegas' corporate fathers are a fivesome or so of different companies, some public and some private. Orlando has a few resort operators but one very big publicly-traded mouse house who the others mostly react to.

* Vegas saw the economic turmoil and the disinterest in property fast enough that construction has been halted on condos at projects like Palazzo and Trump. Disney is still building timeshares in Orlando even though they can't put anyone in all the ones they already have.

* I would also argue that our best examples of corporate discipline are better than theirs. Yeah, some companies have spent themselves into a hole, but the Wynn is doing pretty well and just opened up Encore, and Treasure Island just got purchased by a guy who has no debts he needs to pay off and no shareholders he has cut jobs and service to please. Competition is good and creates jobs because there's more people to work for! From 2003 onwards Vegas was becoming a monopoly.

...So, I would argue that if Las Vegas is doomed, Orlando is double-triple doomed.

The MGM is basically focused on CityCenter, and seems willing to sell things to get it done. A company in Pennsylvania is strongly interested in buying a casino, it is said they want Bellagio but they'll probably have to do a bidding war with Steve Wynn for it sometime this year. Boyd actually saved themselves by stopping Echelon, and will probably start up again with a new plan later this year. Fontainebleau and CityCenter open this year, CityCenter starts taking applications in the next few weeks.

Harrah's is probably going to have to wait this out until people want to own casinos and then sell a casino or two (probably Bally's and Paris together) to pull themselves out of the hole. Another monopoly slightly broken, another competitor.

But overall, most of the Strip is making money. There have always been a few places doing very badly. A decade ago it used to be the Stratosphere everyone said was going to die, but it recovered and makes profits now, and now it's probably the Venetian who looks a bit unhealthy. In time, it's fortunes may change too.

I do think though that our skyline looks about as developed as it's going to be for the next five years. We're going to be using our hotel buildings longer and not blowing them up as quickly as we used to. This means stuff like Mirage, Bally's, and Excalibur aren't going to be imploded for a huge shiny new thing anytime soon. We just have to make the best we can renovating the buildings we already have.

The big losses are in construction, and that should not be any surprise that growth could not be sustained at 2004 rates. If you build things, you might want to go to another city, because we've got enough buildings for a while.

Welcome back CityWatcher

Pretty much a spot on post from my perspective, I have gotten plenty a chuckle from those who think Vegas is doomed and will become a ghost town because of the recession. If anything, it just meant that certain projects had to be put on hold until the economy righted itself again. For the hotels, restaurants, live shows, and golf courses it meant that they weren't in a position to dictate rates anymore and all have had to scale back.

Actually the ones rumored to be next on the implosion list are Tropicana and Imperial Palace though it probably will be a while before we see another implosion as you correctly state.

I wouldn't be naive to say that Vegas is not feeling the pinch of the recession; however, things are still pretty good here compared to other cities in the U.S.

[AA702]

From What I saw on New Years eve.. there was a heck of a lot of people here in the valley. I was at Primm New Years day and it was a mad house of traffic going West Bound mostly CA plates. Even with this economy, people still want to have some fun and forget their problems.

[lvkewlkid]

Originally Posted by Golfinnova

Welcome back CityWatcher

Pretty much a spot on post from my perspective, I have gotten plenty a chuckle from those who think Vegas is doomed and will become a ghost town because of the recession. If anything, it just meant that certain projects had to be put on hold until the economy righted itself again. For the hotels, restaurants, live shows, and golf courses it meant that they weren't in a position to dictate rates anymore and all have had to scale back.

Actually the ones rumored to be next on the implosion list are Tropicana and Imperial Palace though it probably will be a while before we see another implosion as you correctly state.

I wouldn't be naive to say that Vegas is not feeling the pinch of the recession; however, things are still pretty good here compared to other cities in the U.S.

tropicana was taken off the implosion list a while ago, it is still a nice casino, there are just going to redevelop it, i believe by demolishing the garden rooms and building a couple more towers...

[CityWatcher]

The company that currently owns Tropicana is probably the height of incompetence. They overspent like mad to buy in and are now running a skeleton crew, getting into fights with unions, etc. They are in such bad straights that New Jersey took revoked their privileges to run the Atlantic City Tropicana, which is a much nicer hotel and the one that pulled in all the money (yes, Trop is unique in that the AC sibling supports it and not the other way around.)

I suspect there will be no redevelopment and it will sputter along until it finds a new owner who isn't content with with e.coli outbreaks, bed bug scandals, eternally broken escalators, and an overworked staff that couldn't give a hoot.

[dynimagelv]

you are exactly right City......but I don't think the Trop will be imploded......it will collapse by itself long before the 'brain children" can raise the $$$ to implode it....