[RCCCB]

Originally Posted by RandalR

That's the best capsule description of Downtown Las Vegas that I've ever seen.

Sounds llike lots of state's politicians as well. :-)

[jrice]

Originally Posted by gulfer

While Macau maybe a draw for gamblers that enjoy the higher stakes and the few billion people that live in Eastern Asia, but I would think that Las Vegas is still a bigger draw for US, European, and Asian gamblers that enjoy the freedoms that comes with traveling to the USA.

The asians and europeans will be drawn here more so than Americans and Canadians. With more and more states legalizing gaming or atleast allowing the indians to do so, and companies like MGM building Vegas like casinos in those states (PA comes to mind) there is less incentive for the average american to travel to Vegas-especially with recent higher prices for everything. Sure those casinos dont have as many ammenities--like umpteen cirque shows but they are coming real close

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by jrice

The asians and europeans will be drawn here more so than Americans and Canadians. With more and more states legalizing gaming or atleast allowing the indians to do so, and companies like MGM building Vegas like casinos in those states (PA comes to mind) there is less incentive for the average american to travel to Vegas-especially with recent higher prices for everything. Sure those casinos dont have as many ammenities--like umpteen cirque shows but they are coming real close

No they are not. For food, lodging and entertainment Las Vegas reigns supreme by a huge margin. For some forms of gambling it is still the top.

The Mon and Pop stuff will be local. But even Foxwood can't approach Las Vegas.

It is of a Seven Wonders of the World class. These are of the top twenty in the Northeast.

[jrice]

Originally Posted by olecapt

No they are not. For food, lodging and entertainment Las Vegas reigns supreme by a huge margin. For some forms of gambling it is still the top.

The Mon and Pop stuff will be local. But even Foxwood can't approach Las Vegas.

It is of a Seven Wonders of the World class. These are of the top twenty in the Northeast.

MGM is not mom and pop. As far as food and lodging--they are right up there with Vegas. Not saying that Vegas isnt better in one aspect or another as far as gaming goes but the days of dominance are over. The more money the states need for their budgets the more and more casinos will be opening up. Vegas was built in a time when gaming was frowned upon and those days are gone Vegas. And the regional casinos have an edge in that they can see all of the mistakes the casinos in Vegas have made and avoid those, and see what works and improve upon them. Will we see a Wynn in NJ or Idaho? I doubt it but on a smaller scale that casino in Idaho can do it just as good as Vegas and the person traveling can do it cheaper, and is generally treated better--like people used to be treated in Vegas

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by jrice

MGM is not mom and pop. As far as food and lodging--they are right up there with Vegas. Not saying that Vegas isnt better in one aspect or another as far as gaming goes but the days of dominance are over. The more money the states need for their budgets the more and more casinos will be opening up. Vegas was built in a time when gaming was frowned upon and those days are gone Vegas. And the regional casinos have an edge in that they can see all of the mistakes the casinos in Vegas have made and avoid those, and see what works and improve upon them. Will we see a Wynn in NJ or Idaho? I doubt it but on a smaller scale that casino in Idaho can do it just as good as Vegas and the person traveling can do it cheaper, and is generally treated better--like people used to be treated in Vegas

What you have wrong is you can't do Las Vegas on a smaller scale. You can reproduce any one facility...but there are a few hundred.

You have to be able to walk from City Center to Bellagio to Caesars to MGM to Flamingo to Mirage to Circus Circus to The Stratosphere to the Sahara to Harrahs to Imperial Palace to TI to Tropicana to New York New York to Mandalay Bay to Luzor to the other 25.

YOu need the 25 shows that run each night.

You need the 50 first class restaurants. And the 200 other bars and such.

You need the 1000 places to shop.

Simply not locally duplicatable.

[jrice]

Originally Posted by olecapt

What you have wrong is you can't do Las Vegas on a smaller scale. You can reproduce any one facility...but there are a few hundred.

You have to be able to walk from City Center to Bellagio to Caesars to MGM to Flamingo to Mirage to Circus Circus to The Stratosphere to the Sahara to Harrahs to Imperial Palace to TI to Tropicana to New York New York to Mandalay Bay to Luzor to the other 25.

YOu need the 25 shows that run each night.

You need the 50 first class restaurants. And the 200 other bars and such.

You need the 1000 places to shop.

Simply not locally duplicatable.

That may be true but in the days of old Vegas it was a recession proof town--impervious to nationwide economic downturn (to a degree). Not so much anymore. And the person that the regional casinos are going after--the kind that is willing to drop $200 at a blackjack table, doesnt care about the 3rd version of cirque to run, etc. And as far as the 1000 places to shop--how many of those are the same stores? And first time tourists go from casino to casino just to see the sites, again the people that drop money tend to stick to one or two places.

I am not saying that Vegas is going to dry up and disappear, far from it, all I am saying is that demographics have changed and its once lofty position as the "only place in America" is gone forever. And knowing alot of old timers that live outside of Nevada, alot of them detest was Vegas has become compared to what it was in the 80's and even the early 90's (before the family friendly Vegas concept was tried). What I hear from the majority of these guys is that Vegas used to be the classiest place in the world--a world of glitz and glamor that has become a playground for the Paris Hilton/50 cent type person--garish and classless. A place where you were treated special--now unless you are a whale you are treated like a number going through the turnstile. That is what the regionals offer--the class and that personal touch that the mega corporations lack. And as long as those corporations continue to cater to the 20 something that thinks dropping 300 is the end of the world and most likely wont visit again for years then those regionals are going to continue to build up their client base. Thinking along the lines that "we are the best and noone can top us" is the same type of thinking that kills empires and businesses

Moderator cut: Please continue all chats about Las Vegas foreclosures in the Real Estate Market Thread...All chats about casinos and where they should be located is off-topic to the forum and belongs in one of the other many forums of http://city-data.com/forum...If you want to compare the Las Vegas Strip to Anytown with a casino, USA, please use the City vs. City subforum