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Old 01-21-2008, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Many countries DO operate this way. I think Germany is one. Anyone in the world with a certain amount of German ancestry can apply for German citizenship. (don't know their policy on 'duals'). I believe Ireland recently did something like ths, too. Meanwhile, it's exceedingly hard even for third-generation Non-German residents to qualify--the emphasis is on "German blood" (unless this has VERY recently changed)_

At one time (maybe still) ALL Portuguese and ALL Brazilians had automatic, reciprocal dual citizenship, (or at least free rights of immigration) by virtue of their birth. China "considers" Taiwanese its citizens (though they aren't 'flattered' by this 'privilege" ).

Lots of very different 'relationships' between LOTS of "pairs" of countries, or "ethnic groups"--reflectng our very DIFFERENT concepts of "Who are 'we', and how do we differentiate 'us' from 'them' ".....The U.S. is VERY 'easy' in this regard...
Canada does not cancel citizenship. Once you are a citizen of Canada, you are always a citizen of Canada no matter what other nation you might be a citizen of or where you vote.
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Old 01-24-2008, 06:15 PM
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Old 01-26-2008, 12:50 AM
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DUAL CITIZENS IN THE US GOVERNMENT



Michael Mukasey
Recently appointed as US Attorney General. Mukasey also was the judge in the litigation between developer Larry Silverstein and several insurance companies arising from the destruction of the World Trade Center.
Michael Chertoff
Former Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division, at the Justice Department; now head of Homeland Security.
Richard Perle
One of Bush's foreign policy advisors, he is the chairman of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board. A very likely Israeli government agent, Perle was expelled from Senator Henry Jackson's office in the 1970's after the National Security Agency (NSA) caught him passing Highly-Classified (National Security) documents to the Israeli Embassy. He later worked for the Israeli weapons firm, Soltam. Perle came from one the above mentioned pro-Israel thinktanks, the AEI. Perle is one of the leading pro-Israeli fanatics leading this Iraq war mongering within the administration and now in the media. Paul Wolfowitz
Former Deputy Defense Secretary, and member of Perle's Defense Policy Board, in the Pentagon. Wolfowitz is a close associate of Perle, and reportedly has close ties to the Israeli military. His sister lives in Israel. Wolfowitz came from the above mentioned Jewish thinktank, JINSA. Wolfowitz was the number two leader within the administration behind this Iraq war mongering. He later was appointed head of the World Bank but resigned under pressure from World Bank members over a scandal involving his misuse of power.

Douglas Feith
Under Secretary of Defense and Policy Advisor at the Pentagon. He is a close associate of Perle and served as his Special Counsel. Like Perle and the others, Feith is a pro-Israel extremist, who has advocated anti-Arab policies in the past. He is closely associated with the extremist group, the Zionist Organization of America, which even attacks Jews that don't agree with its extremist views. Feith frequently speaks at ZOA conferences. Feith runs a small law firm, Feith and Zell, which only has one International office, in Israel. The majority of their legal work is representing Israeli interests. His firm's own website stated, prior to his appointment, that Feith "represents Israeli Armaments Manufacturer." Feith basically represents the Israeli War Machine. Feith also came from the Jewish thinktank JINSA. Feith, like Perle and Wolfowitz, are campaigning hard for this Israeli proxy war against Iraq.
Lawrence (Larry) Franklin
The former Defense Intelligence Agency analyst with expertise in Iranian policy issues who worked in the office of Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith and reported directly to Feith's deputy, William Luti, was sentenced January 20, 2006, "to more than 12 years in prison for giving classified information to an Israeli diplomat" and members of the pro-Israel lobbying group American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC).
Franklin will "remain free while the government continues with the wider case" and his "prison time could be sharply reduced in return for his help in prosecuting" former AIPAC members Steven J. Rosen and Keith Weissman, [who] are scheduled to go on trial in April [2006]. Franklin admitted that he met periodically with Rosen and Weissman between 2002 and 2004 and discussed classified information, including information about potential attacks on U.S. troops in Iraq. Rosen and Weissman would later share what they learned with reporters and Israeli officials." (source: sourcewatch.com).
Edward Luttwak
Member of the National Security Study Group of the Department of Defence at the Pentagon. Luttwak is reportedly an Israeli citizen and has taught in Israel. He frequently writes for Israeli and pro-Israeli newspapers and journals. Luttwak is an Israeli extremist whose main theme in many of his articles is the necessity of the U.S. waging war against Iraq and Iran.
Henry Kissinger
One of many Pentagon Advisors, Kissinger sits on the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board under Perle. For detailed information about Kissinger's evil past, read Seymour Hersch's book (Price of Power: Kissinger in the Nixon White House). Kissinger likely had a part in the Watergate crimes, Southeast Asia mass murders (Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos), Installing Chilean mass murdering dictator Pinochet, Operation Condor's mass killings in South America, and more recently served as Serbia's Ex-Dictator Slobodan Milosevic's Advisor. He consistently advocated going to war against Iraq. Kissinger is the Ariel Sharon of the U.S. Unfortunately, President Bush nominated Kissinger as chairman of the September 11 investigating commission. It's like picking a bank robber to investigate a fraud scandal. He later declined this job under enormous protests.
Dov Zakheim
Dov Zakheim is an ordained rabbi and reportedly holds Israeli citizenship. Zakheim attended Jew's College in London and became an ordained Orthodox Jewish Rabbi in 1973. He was adjunct professor at New York's Jewish Yeshiva University. Zakheim is close to the Israeli lobby.
Dov Zakheim is also a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and in 2000 a co-author of the Project for the New American Century's position paper, Rebuilding America's Defenses, advocating the necessity for a Pearl-Harbor-like incident to mobilize the country into war with its enemies, mostly Middle Eastern Muslim nations.
He was appointed by Bush as Pentagon Comptroller from May 4, 2001 to March 10, 2004. At that time he was unable to explain the disappearance of $1 trillion dollars. Actually, nearly three years earlier, Donald Rumsfeld announced on September 10, 2001 that an audit discovered $2.3 trillion was also missing from the Pentagon books. That story, as mentioned, was buried under 9-11's rubble. The two sums disappeared on Zakheim's watch. We can only guess where that cash went.
Despite these suspicions, on May 6, 2004, Zakheim took a lucrative position at Booz Allen Hamilton, one of the most prestigious strategy consulting firms in the world. One of its clients then was Blessed Relief, a charity said to be a front for Osama bin Laden. Booz, Allen & Hamilton then also worked closely with DARPA, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, which is the research arm of the Department of Defense. Judicial Inc's bio of Dov tells us Zakheim is a dual Israeli/American citizen and has been tracking the halls of US government for 25 years, casting defense policy and influence on Presidents Reagan, Clinton, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. Judicial Inc points out that most of Israel's armaments were gotten thanks to him. Squads of US F-16 and F-15 were classified military surplus and sold to Israel at a fraction of their value.
Kenneth Adelman
One of many Pentagon Advisors, Adelman also sits on the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board under Perle, and is another extremist pro-Israel advisor, who supported going to war against Iraq. Adelman frequently is a guest on Fox News, and often expresses extremist and often ridiculus anti-Arab and anti-Muslim views. Through his racism or ignorance, he actually called Arabs "anti-Semitic" on Fox News (11/28/2001), when he could have looked it up in the dictionary to find out that Arabs by definition are Semites.

I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby
Vice President Dick Cheney's ex-Chief of Staff. As chief pro-Israel Jewish advisor to Cheney, it helps explains why Cheney is so gun-ho to invade Iran. Libby is longtime associate of Wolfowitz. Libby was also a lawyer for convicted felon and Israeli spy Marc Rich, whom Clinton pardoned, in his last days as president. Libby was recently found guilty of lying to Federal investigators in the Valerie Plame affair, in which Plame, a covert CIA agent, was exposed for political revenge by the Bush administration following her husband's revelations about the lies leading to the Iraq War.
Robert Satloff
U.S. National Security Council Advisor, Satloff was the executive director of the Israeli lobby's "think tank," Washington Institute for Near East Policy. Many of the Israeli lobby's "experts" come from this front group, like Martin Indyk.
Elliott Abrams
National Security Council Advisor. He previously worked at Washington-based "Think Tank" Ethics and Public Policy Center. During the Reagan Adminstration, Abrams was the Assistant Secretary of State, handling, for the most part, Latin American affairs. He played an important role in the Iran-Contra Scandal, which involved illegally selling U.S. weapons to Iran to fight Iraq, and illegally funding the contra rebels fighting to overthrow Nicaragua's Sandinista government. He also actively deceived three congressional committees about his involvement and thereby faced felony charges based on his testimony. Abrams pled guilty in 1991 to two misdemeanors and was sentenced to a year's probation and 100 hours of community service. A year later, former President Bush (Senior) granted Abrams a full pardon. He was one of the more hawkish pro-Israel Jews in the Reagan Administration's State Department.
Marc Grossman
Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs. He was Director General of the Foreign Service and Director of Human Resources at the Department of State. Grossman is one of many of the pro-Israel Jewish officials from the Clinton Administration that Bush has promoted to higher posts.
Richard Haass
Director of Policy Planning at the State Department and Ambassador at large. He is also Director of National Security Programs and Senior Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). He was one of the more hawkish pro-Israel Jews in the first Bush (Sr) Administration who sat on the National Security Council, and who consistently advocated going to war against Iraq. Haass is also a member of the Defense Department's National Security Study Group, at the Pentagon.
Robert Zoellick
U.S. Trade Representative, a cabinet-level position. He is also one of the more hawkish pro-Israel Jews in the Bush (Jr) Administration who advocated invading Iraq and occupying a portion of the country in order to set up a Vichy-style puppet government. He consistently advocates going to war against Iran.
Ari Fleischer
Ex- White House Spokesman for the Bush (Jr) Administration. Prominent in the Jewish community, some reports state that he holds Israeli citizenship. Fleischer is closely connected to the extremist Jewish group called the Chabad Lubavitch Hasidics, who follow the Qabala, and hold very extremist and insulting views of non-Jews. Fleischer was the co-president of Chabad's Capitol Jewish Forum. He received the Young Leadership Award from the American Friends of Lubavitch in October, 2001.
James Schlesinger
One of many Pentagon Advisors, Schlesinger also sits on the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board under Perle and is another extremist pro-Israel advisor, who supported going to war against Iraq. Schlesinger is also a commissioner of the Defense Department's National Security Study Group, at the Pentagon.
David Frum
White House speechwriter behind the "Axis of Evil" label. He lumped together all the lies and accusations against Iraq for Bush to justify the war.
Joshua Bolten
White House Deputy Chief of Staff, Bolten was previously a banker, former legislative aide, and prominent in the Jewish community.
John Bolton
Former UN Representative and Under-Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security. Bolton is also a Senior Advisor to President Bush. Prior to this position, Bolton was Senior Vice President of the above mentioned pro-Israel thinktank, AEI. He recently (October 2002) accused Syria of having a nuclear program, so that they can attack Syria after Iraq. He must have forgotten that Israel has 400 nuclear warheads, some of which are thermonuclear weapons (according to a recent U.S. Air Force report).
David Wurmser
Special Assistant to John Bolton (above), the under-secretary for arms control and international security. Wurmser also worked at the AEI with Perle and Bolton. His wife, Meyrav Wurmser, along with Colonel Yigal Carmon, formerly of Israeli military intelligence, co-founded the Middle East Media Research Institute (Memri),a Washington-based Israeli outfit which distributes articles translated from Arabic newspapers portraying Arabs in a bad light.
Eliot Cohen
Member of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board under Perle and is another extremist pro-Israel advisor. Like Adelman, he often expresses extremist and often ridiculus anti-Arab and anti-Muslim views. More recently, he wrote an opinion article in the Wall Street Journal openly admitting his rascist hatred of Islam claiming that Islam should be the enemy, not terrorism.
Mel Sembler
President of the Export-Import Bank of the United States. A Prominent Jewish Republican and Former National Finance Chairman of the Republican National Committee. The Export-Import Bank facilitates trade relationships between U.S. businesses and foreign countries, specifically those with financial problems.
Steve Goldsmith
Senior Advisor to the President, and Bush's Jewish domestic policy advisor. He also served as liaison in the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives (White House OFBCI) within the Executive Office of the President. He was the former mayor of Indianapolis. He is also friends with Israeli Jerusalem Mayor Ehud Olmert and often visits Israel to coach mayors on privatization initiatives.
Adam Goldman
White House's Special Liaison to the Jewish Community.
Joseph Gildenhorn
Bush Campaign's Special Liaison to the Jewish Community. He was the DC finance chairman for the Bush campaign, as well as campaign coordinator, and former ambassador to Switzerland.
Christopher Gersten
Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families at HHS. Gersten was the former Executive Director of the Republican Jewish Coalition, Husband of Labor Secretary.
Mark Weinberger
Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs.
Samuel Bodman
Deputy Secretary of Commerce. He was the Chairman and CEO of Cabot Corporation in Boston, Massachusetts.
Bonnie Cohen
Under Secretary of State for Management.
Ruth Davis
Director of Foreign Service Institute, who reports to the Office of Under Secretary for Management. This Office is responsible for training all Department of State staff (including ambassadors).
Daniel Kurtzer
Ambassador to Israel.
Cliff Sobel
Ambassador to the Netherlands.
Stuart Bernstein
Ambassador to Denmark.
Nancy Brinker
Ambassador to Hungary
Frank Lavin</B>
Ambassador to Singapore.
Ron Weiser
Ambassador to Slovakia.
Mel Sembler
Ambassador to Italy.
Martin Silverstein
Ambassador to Uruguay.
Lincoln Bloomfield
Assistant Secretary of State for Political Military Affairs.
Jay Lefkowitz
Deputy Assistant to the President and Director of the Domestic Policy Council.
Ken Melman
White House Political Director. Brad Blakeman
White House Director of Scheduling.

How you would react to the Head of Homeland Security if he or she were a dual national with citizenship in Iran, Lebanon or Saudi Arabia?
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Old 01-26-2008, 02:03 AM
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It the person's birth country offered them dual citizenship, there's nothing we could do about that. You coulld be angry at the President who appointed that individual as the Head of Homeland Security, but that's about it. It's doubtful that would ever happen. No President in his right mind would appoint someone born in Iran to that post. Well maybe he/she would? George W nearly hired an Arab company to man our U.S. ports..remembe that fiacso?
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Old 01-26-2008, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yayoi View Post
I never understood this. If people want to remain loyal to their respective homelands, then they should have permanent resident status or something similar. Why give them citizenship when they can't make up their minds?
Well, I am a Swedish citizen and I am married to an American. Just like you I care about my family and I happened to love 2 countrys. Now, my son is born here so he is a US citizen and I have lived here for 10 years now. I have worked and paid taxes th whole time I have been here so you tell me why I shouldn't be a citizen.
I am not going to give up my swedish citizenship just because I live here right now.
So, have a nice day.
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Old 01-26-2008, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSwede View Post
Well, I am a Swedish citizen and I am married to an American. Just like you I care about my family and I happened to love 2 countrys. Now, my son is born here so he is a US citizen and I have lived here for 10 years now. I have worked and paid taxes th whole time I have been here so you tell me why I shouldn't be a citizen.
I am not going to give up my swedish citizenship just because I live here right now.
So, have a nice day.
Well put!!
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Old 01-26-2008, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSwede View Post
Well, I am a Swedish citizen and I am married to an American. Just like you I care about my family and I happened to love 2 countrys. Now, my son is born here so he is a US citizen and I have lived here for 10 years now. I have worked and paid taxes th whole time I have been here so you tell me why I shouldn't be a citizen.
I am not going to give up my swedish citizenship just because I live here right now.
So, have a nice day.
Fair enough, and, as far as it goes, you'll be able to 'get by' OK. I say this because Sweden has a long history as a neutral nation (it's never likely to have any 'conflict' with the US, or any OTHER country)....and because your 'loyalty' to the US, OR to Sweden, is unlikely to ever be challenged. It's like a polygamous marriage--it's OK, up to a point, as long as none of your spouses objects.

The problem , though, is that MOST nations do require some sort of 'loyalty' in order to qualify for citizenship....just like most corporations require 'loyalty' before hiring a job applicant. When working for the Pespi-Cola Company, it's generaly understood they wouldn't want you to work for Coca-Cola at the same time. An executive caught doing this would probably lose his job.

I cannot visualize how you can put Sweden's interests as your primary concern, and at the same time, have America's interests as your OTHER prime concern. One MUST be more important than the other. Hopefully, you will never be called to make that decision.

It may be a different story if your US citizenship was held in conjunction with Chinese citizenship---or North Korean citizenship---or Syrian citizenship. In those cases, there is great potential for having to make a decision, for or against ONE of the 'loyalties' involved.
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Old 01-26-2008, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozark-Baby
[COLOR=purple
How you would react to the Head of Homeland Security if he or she were a dual national with citizenship in Iran, Lebanon or Saudi Arabia?[/color]
I'd react by thinking to myself, "I HOPE we never have any conflict with these countries, because if we DO, we may find the Head of OUR Homeland Security is busy thinking of the security of his OTHER Homeland----the one that's currently getting ready to attack US".....sounds like it could get a little 'sticky', to me....
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Ozark-Baby View Post
I am sorry but one opens themselves up to any criticism when they carry openly a dual citizenship.
I'm sorry that I disagree with you :-)
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stockholmaren View Post
I'm sorry that I disagree with you :-)
Once again, it's your right to disagree, and apparently, dual citizenship is perfectly legal in many cases. I admit that this mystifies me. I THOUGHT the 'oath of citizenship' required some sort of pledge of loyalty, and a forsaking of past alliances. I can't imagine most countries admitting new citizens who aren't willing to "Pledge allegiance to the Flag" (as our tiny kiddies USED to do each day in school). And "Allegiance" does have some sort of connotation of loyalty.

It sounds a lot to me like a person saying "I'm black. I'm black because my parents were black, and I love them, and I'm proud to be black. But I want to join the Ku Klux Klan, because they have REALLY COOL uniforms, and really colorful "meetings". I'm not being DISLOYAL to my parents, I'm just 'broadening my horizons' by being both black, AND a KKK member. That way I get the best of TWO worlds."
Somehow, if a person said that, I'd find it insincere. I'd feel they didn't really understand what they were talking about. Just as I'd feel about a Catholic who was also a practicing Muslim....or an Amish used-car dealer....or a gang-banger who worked part-time for the police department...some things just aren't 'compatible', and one must make a choice.
To MY way of thinking, a "dual" citizen isn't FULLY a citizen of EITHER nation, for the simple reason he's unable to pledge 100% commitment to either place. It doesn't make him "bad"---it's just not possible to be "200%" ANYTHING....

Obviously, my view doesn't reflect today's reality. Apparently citizenship is now not so much a matter of commitment--it's more like shopping around for an insurance company. Nothing wrong with "double coverage", I suppose. But even insurance companies OCCASIONALLY get into squabbles--each one wanting the "other guy" to provide coverage, instead of their having to. Sounds like a 'conflict' to me...
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