Comparisions on how to legally Immigrate to the USA and Mexico (citizens, states)

[Travelling fella]

Originally Posted by cousinsal

We take in more legal immigrants than any other country in the WORLD.

And, then, places like Mexico DARE to complain when we want to uphold our laws regarding illegals. What a bunch of low-life spongers. They just want to do it illegally so their citizens won't have to pay U.S. taxes, so they can send their money back to Mexico.

This info according to wikipedia:

Immigration to Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Canada has the highest per capita immigration rate in the world,although statistics in the CIA World Factbook show that a number of city states and small island nations, as well as some larger countries in regions with refugee movements, have higher per capita rates.


This info according to nationmaster:

NationMaster - New citizenships (per capita) (most recent) by country (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_new_cit_percap-immigration-new-citizenships-per-capita - broken link)

Showing latest available data. Rank Countries (http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph/imm_new_cit_percap-immigration-new-citizenships-per-capita&ob=ws - broken link) Amount (http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph/imm_new_cit_percap-immigration-new-citizenships-per-capita&b_desc=1 - broken link) (top to bottom)
#1 Canada: 6.54169 thousand per 1 million p
#2 Belgium: 5.9919 thousand per 1 million p
#3 Sweden: 4.83226 thousand per 1 million p
#4 Switzerland: 3.83229 thousand per 1 million p
#5 Australia: 3.52414 thousand per 1 million p
#6 Denmark: 3.46097 thousand per 1 million p
#7 Netherlands: 3.04748 thousand per 1 million p
#8 United States: 3.03651 thousand per 1 million p
#9 Austria: 3.0055 thousand per 1 million p
#10 France: 2.47296 thousand per 1 million p
#11 Germany: 2.26492 thousand per 1 million p
#12 Norway: 2.06836 thousand per 1 million p
#13 United Kingdom: 1.36 thousand per 1 million p
#14 Luxembourg: 1.28049 thousand per 1 million p
#15 Hungary: 0.749475 thousand per 1 million p
#16 Finland: 0.574383 thousand per 1 million p
#17 Spain: 0.297464 thousand per 1 million p
#18 Italy: 0.199645 thousand per 1 million p
#19 Japan: 0.117724 thousand per 1 million p
#20 Portugal: 0.0662502 thousand per 1 million p

Illegal immigrants from Mexico do pay taxes in the USA, both sales tax, and income tax, according to this article. They do send heavy amounts of money to Mexico, but that money buys american goods that are sold in Mexico via Nafta.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/immig...ntial-usa.html

[TriMT7]

Originally Posted by Travelling fella

This info according to wikipedia:

Immigration to Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Canada has the highest per capita immigration rate in the world,although statistics in the CIA World Factbook show that a number of city states and small island nations, as well as some larger countries in regions with refugee movements, have higher per capita rates.

Is that including illegal immigrants? Or only "official" immigrants?

Originally Posted by Travelling fella

Illegal immigrants from Mexico do pay taxes in the USA, both sales tax, and income tax, according to this article. They do send heavy amounts of money to Mexico, but that money buys american goods that are sold in Mexico via Nafta.

An illegal Mexican making slave wages cannot even begin to spend enough in the US to make up in sales tax what the cost to educate, feed, and provide healthcare for just one illegal child or anchor baby. Similarly, income tax paid for one underpaid illegal is less than what would be paid were that employer forced to pay a legal wage, and indeed, due to wage depression, knocks down the wages for legal workers in similar fields in an area, further reducing the total income tax collection amounts from workers.

[Bummer]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

An illegal Mexican making slave wages cannot even begin to spend enough in the US to make up in sales tax what the cost to educate, feed, and provide healthcare for just one illegal child or anchor baby. Similarly, income tax paid for one underpaid illegal is less than what would be paid were that employer forced to pay a legal wage, and indeed, due to wage depression, knocks down the wages for legal workers in similar fields in an area, further reducing the total income tax collection amounts from workers.

Great point, TriMT . . . the huge costs vs gains are staggering.

Also, the "sales tax potential" is reduced even more by the large amount of their paychecks being sent back to Mexico.

[andreabeth]

Originally Posted by Travelling fella

This info according to wikipedia:

Immigration to Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Canada has the highest per capita immigration rate in the world,although statistics in the CIA World Factbook show that a number of city states and small island nations, as well as some larger countries in regions with refugee movements, have higher per capita rates.


This info according to nationmaster:

NationMaster - New citizenships (per capita) (most recent) by country (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_new_cit_percap-immigration-new-citizenships-per-capita - broken link)

Showing latest available data. Rank Countries (http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph/imm_new_cit_percap-immigration-new-citizenships-per-capita&ob=ws - broken link) Amount (http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph/imm_new_cit_percap-immigration-new-citizenships-per-capita&b_desc=1 - broken link) (top to bottom)
#1 Canada: 6.54169 thousand per 1 million p
#2 Belgium: 5.9919 thousand per 1 million p
#3 Sweden: 4.83226 thousand per 1 million p
#4 Switzerland: 3.83229 thousand per 1 million p
#5 Australia: 3.52414 thousand per 1 million p
#6 Denmark: 3.46097 thousand per 1 million p
#7 Netherlands: 3.04748 thousand per 1 million p
#8 United States: 3.03651 thousand per 1 million p
#9 Austria: 3.0055 thousand per 1 million p
#10 France: 2.47296 thousand per 1 million p
#11 Germany: 2.26492 thousand per 1 million p
#12 Norway: 2.06836 thousand per 1 million p
#13 United Kingdom: 1.36 thousand per 1 million p
#14 Luxembourg: 1.28049 thousand per 1 million p
#15 Hungary: 0.749475 thousand per 1 million p
#16 Finland: 0.574383 thousand per 1 million p
#17 Spain: 0.297464 thousand per 1 million p
#18 Italy: 0.199645 thousand per 1 million p
#19 Japan: 0.117724 thousand per 1 million p
#20 Portugal: 0.0662502 thousand per 1 million p

Illegal immigrants from Mexico do pay taxes in the USA, both sales tax, and income tax, according to this article. They do send heavy amounts of money to Mexico, but that money buys american goods that are sold in Mexico via Nafta.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/immig...ntial-usa.html

I don't care. The cornerstone of ALL these schemes is the massive movement of millions of impoverished and uneducated peoples from SOB into the US. We have been bilked, scammed. cheated, and swindled. We have had our neighborhoods ruined, our school systems overtaxed and our hospitals pushed to the point of bankruptcy. Go away!

If the US finds that we need foreign workers, we can bring them in from any country in the world! Why give the job to people who have already clearly demonstrated that they feel our laws do not apply to them and are only here for what they can grab. Go home!

[Travelling fella]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

Is that including illegal immigrants? Or only "official" immigrants?



An illegal Mexican making slave wages cannot even begin to spend enough in the US to make up in sales tax what the cost to educate, feed, and provide healthcare for just one illegal child or anchor baby. Similarly, income tax paid for one underpaid illegal is less than what would be paid were that employer forced to pay a legal wage, and indeed, due to wage depression, knocks down the wages for legal workers in similar fields in an area, further reducing the total income tax collection amounts from workers.

This sounds reasonable, I have to accept, but we need some hard data to know for sure if those taxes compensate the cost of raising and educating this family.

Let's check doing the tax bracket calculation, for a single person

Tax Brackets (Federal Income Tax Rates) 2000 through 2007

Tax Bracket.

Tax Year: 2007

Filling status: Single

if your taxable income is between

0 and 7,825 your tax bracket is 10%
7,825 and 31,850 your tax bracker is 15%
31,850 and 77,100 your tax bracket is 25%
771,00 and 160,850 your tax bracket is 28%
160,850 and 349,700 your tax bracket is 33%
349,700 and above your tax bracket is 35%

A typical illegal gets paid about 7.75 dollars per hour, let's say that he works 8 hours a day 5 days a week ok?

7.75 x 8 = 62 dollars a day
5 days a week equals 20 days per month so 62 x 20 = 1,240 monthly
1,240 x 12 = 14880 yearly

This person would pay 15% of income tax, this is 2232 dollars annualy, without taking the sales tax that is about 15% in most states in consideration, being fair let's say that at least another 50% of those wages are used to pay food, clothing, and goods, that should yield another 1116 in additional taxes, giving us a total of 3348 dollars

I don't know about the costs of schooling or healthcare, feeding expenses shoould be left out of the equation because illegals pay for the food they eat with their wages.

I hope this provides some hard data about the illegal immigration phenomenon.

Now think about this, think about the zillions of dollars that coorporations charimen, ceos and excecutives should be paying in taxes, but they are exempt of them due to tax brakes, who's to blame for this?

Peace, Love, Light and Harmony

[Travelling fella]

Originally Posted by andreabeth

I don't care. The cornerstone of ALL these schemes is the massive movement of millions of impoverished and uneducated peoples from SOB into the US. We have been bilked, scammed. cheated, and swindled. We have had our neighborhoods ruined, our school systems overtaxed and our hospitals pushed to the point of bankruptcy. Go away!

If the US finds that we need foreign workers, we can bring them in from any country in the world! Why give the job to people who have already clearly demonstrated that they feel our laws do not apply to them and are only here for what they can grab. Go home!

Dear Andrea, this is understandable, I admit, but who's to blame for the neighboorhoods ruined, overtaxed school systems and bankrupt hospitals? are the illegals to blame, or is the current state of the immigration system?

And who has cheated, scammed and swindled you, are just the illegals or it's the corruption behind the American government and coorporate interests to blame too?

The american economy is not in a good shape now, that's a fact that is known in the entire world, but are the illegals the only ones to blame, or could it be because of other factors that things are like this?

imho the more I do research about illegal immigration, the more I get to think that the government's behind it, they want immigrants, but they want them illegal because illegal means less wages, less rights and an scapegoat for the current situation, I could be wrong though and that's the idea of coming here

Respect!

[TriMT7]

Originally Posted by Travelling fella

This sounds reasonable, I have to accept, but we need some hard data to know for sure if those taxes compensate the cost of raising and educating this family.

Let's check doing the tax bracket calculation, for a single person

Tax Brackets (Federal Income Tax Rates) 2000 through 2007

Tax Bracket.

Tax Year: 2007

Filling status: Single

if your taxable income is between

0 and 7,825 your tax bracket is 10%
7,825 and 31,850 your tax bracker is 15%
31,850 and 77,100 your tax bracket is 25%
771,00 and 160,850 your tax bracket is 28%
160,850 and 349,700 your tax bracket is 33%
349,700 and above your tax bracket is 35%

A typical illegal gets paid about 7.75 dollars per hour, let's say that he works 8 hours a day 5 days a week ok?

7.75 x 8 = 62 dollars a day
5 days a week equals 20 days per month so 62 x 20 = 1,240 monthly
1,240 x 12 = 14880 yearly

This person would pay 15% of income tax, this is 2232 dollars annualy, without taking the sales tax that is about 15% in most states in consideration, being fair let's say that at least another 50% of those wages are used to pay food, clothing, and goods, that should yield another 1116 in additional taxes, giving us a total of 3348 dollars

I don't know about the costs of schooling or healthcare, feeding expenses shoould be left out of the equation because illegals pay for the food they eat with their wages.

I hope this provides some hard data about the illegal immigration phenomenon.

Now think about this, think about the zillions of dollars that coorporations charimen, ceos and excecutives should be paying in taxes, but they are exempt of them due to tax brakes, who's to blame for this?

Peace, Love, Light and Harmony

The problem is that in the United States, most people earning $7.75/hour do NOT pay ANY taxes. They get it all back from the government. If they have kids, they actually get BONUS money back in the form of the earned income tax credit.

Similarly, in my state, with no state income tax, we have between 6% and 7%sales tax. I don't know where you're getting the 15% number from!


As far as billionaires getting breaks, we do know that their "tax burden" is less than what the MIDDLE CLASS is faced with, but your average bottom rung worker pays very little to nothing in income tax (except for FICA taxes, which you technically "get back" when you're old), and that's the truth.


Besides, since illegals often live multiple guys and families in one home, they actually end up circumventing either direct property taxes per family, or indirect in per family rent payments that go towards property taxes. Property taxes, by the way, is the #1 most popular way of school funding across the country.


I really do want to think that the guy doing lawn maintenance for $7.00/hr. under the table with a wife and four kids in a shared apartment home is "contributing to society....." but I just can't. And trust me, we have enough "native borns" to burden the system as it is!

[macmeal]

Originally Posted by Travelling fella

, the more I get to think that the government's behind it, they want immigrants, but they want them illegal because illegal means less wages, less rights and an scapegoat for the current situation, I could be wrong though and that's the idea of coming here

Respect!

This much, at least, I do agree with....as I've said many times, if the illegals ever do become legalized, they'll INSTANTLY lose most of their appeal as employees. Their biggest "selling point" is their precarious legal situation, which guarantees that they can be worked hard, paid little, and have little ability to do anything about it.
Once they become LEGAL (i.e., 'protected'), they will obviously want more pay, shorter hours, and better conditions. They will instantly become not a source of cheap, willing labor, but just another grumbling, complaining, demanding bunch of American workers---with the exception that some will not be able to speak English. At that point, many employers might just decide to go back to using American help..the former illegals, now legal, will have simply "priced themselves" right out of a job...

[Travelling fella]

Originally Posted by macmeal

This much, at least, I do agree with....as I've said many times, if the illegals ever do become legalized, they'll INSTANTLY lose most of their appeal as employees. Their biggest "selling point" is their precarious legal situation, which guarantees that they can be worked hard, paid little, and have little ability to do anything about it.
Once they become LEGAL (i.e., 'protected'), they will obviously want more pay, shorter hours, and better conditions. They will instantly become not a source of cheap, willing labor, but just another grumbling, complaining, demanding bunch of American workers---with the exception that some will not be able to speak English. At that point, many employers might just decide to go back to using American help..the former illegals, now legal, will have simply "priced themselves" right out of a job...

Your reply left me thinking my friend maybe if the illegals became legal, they would self deport or would have more pressure to learn english,
it might hard to believe that, but you know the other time I was reading an article that said, how middle income countries (Like Brazil or Mexico) who struggled to kept their currency reasonably high and wages reasonably high, were struggling to make their GDP grow, while China went for the inverse strategy, they artificially keep their currency value low and their GDP is soaring. Maybe this reverse logic would work, but I could be wrong.

What are your thoughts? (everybody)

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by Travelling fella

Dear Andrea, this is understandable, I admit, but who's to blame for the neighboorhoods ruined, overtaxed school systems and bankrupt hospitals? are the illegals to blame, or is the current state of the immigration system?

And who has cheated, scammed and swindled you, are just the illegals or it's the corruption behind the American government and coorporate interests to blame too?

The american economy is not in a good shape now, that's a fact that is known in the entire world, but are the illegals the only ones to blame, or could it be because of other factors that things are like this?

imho the more I do research about illegal immigration, the more I get to think that the government's behind it, they want immigrants, but they want them illegal because illegal means less wages, less rights and an scapegoat for the current situation, I could be wrong though and that's the idea of coming here

Respect!

And; you are confirming what many of us 'Gringoes' are suspecting as well.