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As a Canadian citizen planning to legally immigrate to the USA next year, it does not bother me at all that these poor unfortunate victims of life circumstance may in fact be given the opportunity to find their bliss in the US. Really, you're going to condemn them for trying to make a better life for themselves and their families?
There is no other immigration path for these people. There is no "line" to "wait in" or ANY hope of EVER being able to go to the US legally. They didn't just jump the line, people. If their circumstances in their home country are honestly so dire that they're willing to risk life and limb to kiss American soil, then how on earth can you sit on your Ikea sofa in your 2-car garage subdivision house, and pause your TiVo just long enough to ***** about sending them back?! Back to what?!
Think about it: if someone else's utter relief and joy is enough to upset you and send your own happiness into a tailspin, how can you even look at yourself in the mirror? What kind of person does that make you? And all because you either didn't have to immigrate at all, or you were blessed to be able to do it legally? What if you had no path? Does their ability to find a better life illegally honestly make you any less grateful for your ability to have done it legally? Think about what you did to get to the US... Would you yourself have traded places with any one of these illegals instead? Instead of marrying or starting a business, would you have ran/climbed/dug/swam and risked personal safety to get across the border? No? Ain't so easy then, is it?
Anyone who fears that immigration hurts the job prospects in the long run doesn't understand basic economics. Give these people access to services and the ability to make a productive life, they're going to spend their dollars and businesses will grow to compensate, in turn creating more local jobs. The REAL issue plaguing the economy is the outsourcing of jobs to cheaper countries, but that has nothing to do with people IN AMERICA taking jobs IN AMERICA that make money IN AMERICA to spend IN AMERICA... To in turn help businesses grow IN AMERICA to meet those demands.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. This country has limited resources and we are not responsible for everyone in the world not born here.
Americans that used to make a good living in construction have seen wages go down because the companies pay the illegals a cheaper wage. And yes, that's the construction companies fault as much as the illegals.
People seem to think they just take jobs Americans don 't want and that's simply not true. Even some of the fast food jobs would be taken by high school and college students if the illegals didn't take them.
Hospitals have been closed because they bring their kids in to the ER for everything, including a cold. They are a drain on this nation.
And by the way, they do not spend all their money here. Many send a substantial amount of money back ho,e to wives and children. We are better off without them.
By the way, I'm sure that if you came home one day and found that people had broken into your home, moved all of their belongings in, we're eating all your food and had tapped into your bank account, you'd call the police. I'd love to see your reaction if the police came and told you "sorry, but they're just trying to make a better life for themselves. You're responsible for them now." You'd be screaming bloody murder.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. This country has limited resources and we are not responsible for everyone in the world not born here.
Americans that used to make a good living in construction have seen wages go down because the companies pay the illegals a cheaper wage. And yes, that's the construction companies fault as much as the illegals.
People seem to think they just take jobs Americans don 't want and that's simply not true. Even some of the fast food jobs would be taken by high school and college students if the illegals didn't take them.
Hospitals have been closed because they bring their kids in to the ER for everything, including a cold. They are a drain on this nation.
And by the way, they do not spend all their money here. Many send a substantial amount of money back ho,e to wives and children. We are better off without them.
Let's get to the crux of the above without damning our fellow human beings who are only trying to survive like you and I, shall we?
You say we are not responsible for everyone in the world... Well, it's dang well close, my friend. If we don't want the consequences, then why do we keep electing leaders and worshipping the U.S. corporate king capitalists who do the evil acts that actually cause much of strife in the countries from which come---and the resulting frustration with it all here at home? Answer this, please. Illicit drug users in this country also have a lot to answer for.
You say Americans used to make a good living in construction. That is probably true; those days are gone. Building construction across the globe is done by lowest wage worker (even shipped in to do it for the wealthy investors--think Dubai). I have noticed over the past 10 years that a lot of Americans are simply too lazy and spoiled to work 8 to 10 hours on a hot roof in the middle of summer. Most able-bodied men (and women) simply don't want this kind of manual labor job. I'd love to know where all of the willing citizens are to do roofing in the summer.
Then you say that H.S. and college students are clamoring for fast food jobs. See paragraph above--same deal. It simply is not what I see day in and day out. Fast food jobs are constantly ridiculed by people in this country. I hear so many people say, "what do you wanna do, flip burgers?" and other statements like it -- we have stigmatized and made people feel bad about working in fast food. Border crossers have no problem with this work because they haven't grown up with anyone making fun of fast food jobs. Face it, our work ethic is much different than it used to be. The border crossers are not afraid of or shy away from hard work, or work with a so-called low status.
I really doubt hospitals have closed because of ER visits by border crossers. People are always throwing that around in this immigration debate. I would bet my bottom dollar that hospitals close because of skyrocketing costs due to greedy insurance companies, malpractice law suits, profit models, and bad management. How exactly does someone showing up at an ER financially ruin a hospital? It's a gross exaggeration that non-insured humans are causing hospitals hardships. However, plenty of hospitals and greedy insurance companies financially ruin human beings. Don't buy into this bunk about people needing medical attention financially destroying the hospital.
Last, they do spend a lot of money here. Yes, $$ is also sent home, but they pay rent to landlords, eat in restaurants, buy clothes, groceries, gas, medicine, cars, appliances, and so on. Again, don't buy into the bunk.
Last edited by TotallyTam; 11-21-2014 at 05:58 PM..
I don't think it bothers them at all -I don't not think they are as hateful and are glad some got ahead. Many are family, friends or from the barrio. They are more united than you think. ONLY people I have ever heard speak badly of other immigrants, to be honest, are the war brides. I do not know why, but coming from S Fla I have met people from all over. My car was crashed into and I had to ride the bus for 4 weeks- we passed all of the rich folks homes and all were maids or nannies on the bus, I heard them say they were waiting over 6 yrs + to get the papers through CIS. then they could travel to see their kids etc. I thought 6 yrs that ridiculous! but in fact it is 10+. a lady who cleaned our offices for 20 yrs legal- us cit from Peru. She got cancer. tried to get her only son to come, Dr notes petitions to the gov etc etc they just denied n denied a VISIT to see his sick mom--- he finally came-- for her ashes.
Let's get to the crux of the matter without damning our fellow human beings, ok?
You say we are not responsible for everyone in the world... Then why do we keep electing leaders and worshipping the U.S. corporate king capitalists who do evil acts that actually cause much of strife in the countries from which come? Answer this, please. Illicit drug users in this country also have a lot to answer for.
You say Americans used to make a good living in construction. That is probably true; those days are gone. Building construction across the globe is done by the lowest wage workers (often shipped in to do it--think Dubai). I have noticed over the past 10 years that a lot of Americans are simply too lazy and spoiled to work 8 to 10 hours on a hot roof in the middle of summer. Most able-bodied men (and women) simply don't want this kind of manual labor job. I'd love to know where all of the willing citizens are to do roofing in the summer.
You say that H.S. and college students are clamoring for fast food jobs. See paragraph above--same deal. It isn't what I am seeing. Fast food jobs are constantly ridiculed by people in this country. I hear so many people say, "what do you wanna do, flip burgers?" and other statements like it -- we have stigmatized and made people feel bad about working in fast food. Border crossers have no problem with this work because they haven't grown up with anyone making fun of fast food jobs. Face it, our work ethic is much different than it used to be.
I really doubt hospitals have closed because of ER visits by border crossers. People are always throwing that around in this immigration debate. I would bet my bottom dollar that hospitals close because of skyrocketing costs due to greedy insurance companies, malpractice law suits, profit models, and bad management. How exactly does someone showing up at an ER financially ruin a hospital? It's a gross exaggeration that non-insured humans are causing hospitals hardships. However, plenty of hospitals and greedy insurance companies financially ruin human beings. Don't buy into this bunk about people needing medical attention financially destroying the hospital.
Last, they do spend a lot of money here. Yes, $$ is also sent home, but they pay rent to landlords, eat in restaurants, buy clothes, groceries, gas, medicine, cars, appliances, and so on. Again, don't buy into the bunk.
I don't see all US corporations as some evil empire. I'm not buying into the socialist nonsense. Worshipping the king capitalists? . However I wonder why we keep electing some of the politicians we have, but that doesn't have anything to do with our being responsible for everyone.
People don't want construction jobs? Are you joking? Of course they do. They always have.
Burger flipping was never meant to be a career. I worked fast food in HS to make some spending money. So did most of my friends. No one looked down on it because everyone understood that it was something transitional. Today the illegals have taken those jobs and started demanding "a livable wage" because they HAVE made it a career. There's a big difference.
Illegals go to hospital ERs, get the services and pay nothing. Nothing can stay open like that. It's not the evil insurance companies. You seem to want to place the blame on US corporations.
They spend as little money here as possible. They steal citizen's social security numbers (that's identity theft), claim as many exemptions as possible under the law and pay little, if anything, for taxes. I've seen them take the earned income credit and actually get back more than they paid.
They take far more than they give.
Can we deport them? Not possible. But we keep granting amnesty and that just encourages more to come.
You would do well not to buy into the propaganda you're spouting. It's wrong.
I don't see all US corporations as some evil empire. I'm not buying into the socialist nonsense. Worshipping the king capitalists? . However I wonder why we keep electing some of the politicians we have, but that doesn't have anything to do with our being responsible for everyone.
People don't want construction jobs? Are you joking? Of course they do. They always have.
Burger flipping was never meant to be a career. I worked fast food in HS to make some spending money. So did most of my friends. No one looked down on it because everyone understood that it was something transitional. Today the illegals have taken those jobs and started demanding "a livable wage" because they HAVE made it a career. There's a big difference.
Illegals go to hospital ERs, get the services and pay nothing. Nothing can stay open like that. It's not the evil insurance companies. You seem to want to place the blame on US corporations.
They spend as little money here as possible. They steal citizen's social security numbers (that's identity theft), claim as many exemptions as possible under the law and pay little, if anything, for taxes. I've seen them take the earned income credit and actually get back more than they paid.
They take far more than they give.
Can we deport them? Not possible. But we keep granting amnesty and that just encourages more to come.
You would do well not to buy into the propaganda you're spouting. It's wrong.
Construction jobs - I cannot think of one American I personally know who wants to install new roofs in the summertime. That was my one example. Can you think of say....5 people you know who will do this particular construction task? My guess is that you cannot name 5 people.
Whoever said burger flipping cannot be a long term job? Just because you and your h.s. buddies didn't want to make it your "career" doesn't mean that someone else wouldn't want to do this work longer term. Plus, you're using the word "career" rather loosely. I honestly don't think adult fast food workers think of it as a career--it's a job. Most available jobs are in the service sector--fast food being one of them. Not only that, but the food joints keeping hiring them, don't they? Besides, there are still plenty of teens, minorities, and semi-retired people working at Micky D's. It's not illegals demanding a higher hourly wage, it's mainly the others--and they are citizens.
Oh, they spend plenty here. Retailers, dollar stores, used car lots, and Walmart LOVE the border crossers! Have you ever been to a Walmart on Friday night after payday in a latino community? You should visit that store sometime to see for youself how much is being spent.
The one thing I can agree with you about is the identity theft issue. No argument there.
Greedy U.S. corporations who require cheap labor to meet their profit goals and shareholder expectations are an issue, my friend. If they didn't hire them, the people would not come. No jobs for those without a bonafide, certifiably authentic work permit, no border crossers. Easy.
The next time you settle into your LazyBoy (after a long day at your non-labor job) with a juicy hamburger with the delicious tomatoes, lettuce and pickles---you can say a little "thank you" to the border crossers who slaughtered the cow, processed and packed the meat, planted and picked the tomatoes, lettuce and cucumbers...... Go ahead, thank them.
Last edited by TotallyTam; 11-21-2014 at 06:29 PM..
Construction jobs - I cannot think of one American I personally know who wants to install new roofs in the summertime. That was my one example. Can you think of say....5 people you know who will do this particular construction task? My guess is that you cannot name 5 people.
Whoever said burger flipping cannot be a long term job? Just because you and your h.s. buddies didn't want to make it your "career" doesn't mean that someone else wouldn't want to do this work longer term. Plus, you're using the word "career" rather loosely. I honestly don't think adult fast food workers think of it as a career--it's a job. Most available jobs are in the service sector--fast food being one of them. Not only that, but the food joints keeping hiring them, don't they? Besides, there are still plenty of teens, minorities, and semi-retired people working at Micky D's. It's not illegals demanding a higher hourly wage, it's mainly the others--and they are citizens.
Oh, they spend plenty here. Retailers, dollar stores, used car lots, and Walmart LOVE the border crossers! Have you ever been to a Walmart on Friday night after payday in a latino community? You should visit that store sometime to see for youself how much is being spent.
The one thing I can agree with you about is the identity theft issue. No argument there.
Greedy U.S. corporations who require cheap labor to meet their profit goals and shareholder expectations are an issue, my friend. If they didn't hire them, the people would not come. No jobs for those without a bonafide, certifiably authentic work permit, no border crossers. Easy.
The next time you settle into your LazyBoy (after a long day at your non-labor job) with a juicy hamburger with the delicious tomatoes, lettuce and pickles---you can say a little "thank you" to the border crossers who slaughtered the cow, processed and packed the meat, planted and picked the tomatoes, lettuce and cucumbers...... Go ahead, thank them.
I know of more than 5 people who would do construction in the summer. You must lead a sheltered life.
Agreed that the businesses are also to blame. I think they should impose hefty, and I mean hefty fines on business caught employing illegals.
No, I won't thank illegals. They are taking jobs Americans want and can't have because of them AND the greedy businesses.
They still take more than they give. I think we'll have to just disagree on this point.
We owe them absolutely nothing. This country is ALREADY overcrowded as it is. Traffic is awful and jobs are hard to come by. Granting legal rights to illegals will only entice other people to illegally cross the border. It'll be a neverending cycle. The government has got to put a stop to it at some point.
And how ironic that a people who claim to come from "dire circumstances" constantly pop out babies like there's no tomorrow.
This sort of bigoted, ignorant response, is exactly why I support Obama's plan (and I'm not even a fan of Obama).
No, the U.S. is not "overcrowded" (we're one of the least dense wealthy nations), immigrants add jobs, they don't remove them, and immigrants generally do not have high birth rates. Turn off the Hannity, Beck and Limbaugh.
I know of more than 5 people who would do construction in the summer. You must lead a sheltered life.
Agreed that the businesses are also to blame. I think they should impose hefty, and I mean hefty fines on business caught employing illegals.
No, I won't thank illegals. They are taking jobs Americans want and can't have because of them AND the greedy businesses.
They still take more than they give. I think we'll have to just disagree on this point.
Oh, the old "you must live a sheltered life" retort, huh? Not by a long shot, Mike. I work for an international company, live in two countries (six months away), and have had my hands in many, many ventures, charities, and have held management positions for the past 25+ years. Not sheltered. I am just telling it the way I see it. I know a guy who owns a roofing company in a metropolitan area of the midwest. He's constantly complaining that he gets few to no Americans applying for his roofing jobs during construction season. He really tries and wants to give his jobs to Americans. But no one wants to work in the heat at the height of summer installing roofs. Those Americans that do apply and get hired quit after a one or two paychecks. They do not stick around all summer. The Mexicans and Salvadorans are his best workers. I have no idea if they're illegal---I suspect they are. But without them, he wouldn't have a business, nor would the homeowners have new roofs in time for fall and winter.
Businesses do get fines for hiring undocumented workers--and I think it's happening more than it used to. But overall, enforcement is fairly lax. Back in the 80s when I lived in Southern California, hundreds (maybe into the thousands) of migrant, undocumented workers would cross over at the border in Tijuana during fruit picking season. The border patrol were told to take blind eye during harvest season. All of the citrus and avocado growers made sure the government/border patrol was acting in their interest. Funny though---some of these big citrus groves were right on the outskirts of a very affluent community--and the millionaires who lived close by always complained that the migrants were camping in tents along their roadways--in order to be closeby for picking in the morning. The multi-billion $$ big corporate forms didn't even have the decency to have temporary housing for their migrant workers. They had to camp along public roadsides. Guess what? Local authorities turned the other cheek. Do you see how big business controls this issue---with the help of our own government? Moreover, a total of ZERO Americans ever showed up to pick the oranges, lemons and avocados. Nada.
They really do contribute an awful lot to our economy as a whole. Most food we all enjoy every single day is planted, picked, and processed by border crossers. You should watch "A Day Without a Mexican." It's a docu-drama that shows what would happen to the California economy if **poof** one day all the Mexicans (1/3 of CA's population) just vanished into thin air. It's an eye-opener.
Last edited by TotallyTam; 11-21-2014 at 08:12 PM..
This sort of bigoted, ignorant response, is exactly why I support Obama's plan (and I'm not even a fan of Obama).
No, the U.S. is not "overcrowded" (we're one of the least dense wealthy nations), immigrants add jobs, they don't remove them, and immigrants generally do not have high birth rates. Turn off the Hannity, Beck and Limbaugh.
Actually they are people who illegal came to Us and cheats in common terms. I do not believe in rewarding that; plain and simple. Even then look at lack of success and even possibly the add to problem of last reform. I don't think it just chance that after Dream thing presidential decision those massive of kids came across the border. Clear the reports of parents belief played a part. Get into US then turn yourself over to first border agent seen; they will let you stay.Even more shocking is Mexico's lack of caring one bit about those kids.
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. However I wonder why we keep electing some of the politicians we have, but that doesn't have anything to do with our being responsible for everyone. 
I totally agree with you.
