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View Poll Results: What should the United States do regarding the issue of legal immigration?
Slowly reduce the number of legal immigration. 11 25.58%
Naturally decrease legal immigration by raising our educational standards for most immigrants who are to come to the U.S. 23 53.49%
Allow legal immigration to continue at the pace of the status quo. 15 34.88%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-03-2008, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,583,439 times
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It's hard to be racist against a non-race, considering the term 'Hispanic' is an ethnicity, not a race.
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Old 03-03-2008, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,583,439 times
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And I guess all the Hispanics that are against illegal immigration are just 'coconuts', right? Race-traitors to La Raza?
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Old 03-03-2008, 01:56 PM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,490,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madicarus2000 View Post
Nice way to justify bigotry. Just say “oh, you are opposed to freedom of speech”. Nope, I follow the philosphy that “Freedom of Speech” covers that I find offensive, which means government cant censor it just because I find it objectionable. But that doesn’t mean racist comments cannot be called out as racist and bigots cannot be pointed at and mocked.
Will you get off your "justify" high horse? I'm not justifying anything. It was right there in my post. You know, the part you left out.

You can call anyone anything you want. I couldn't care less. The difference between us is that I understand the difference between opinion and action.

Hatred = protected.
Crimes (for whatever reason, hatred included) = bad.

You can hate me all you want. I don't care. Try to take action on that hatred and then we'll have a problem.

See the difference?
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Old 03-03-2008, 02:01 PM
 
418 posts, read 365,231 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoaminRed View Post
You don't have enough options on your poll, so I didn't vote. I like how Australia works their immigration. I think we should have something like that in line here.
You're right. I should have included more options. Such as the idea of a moratorium to evaluate our situation. Or to stop legal immigration as a whole. The idea of raising education standards is actually what happens in Canada, Western Europe and Australia. I like Australia's system as well. It works for them. They contain their population well. They allow immigration in and expect their immigrants to be ready to integrate into their society. They have a fertility rate of 1.76, which is somewhat low - but enough to make sure the population doesn't decrease. Universal health care definitely works hand in hand with people's life expectancy rate too.

Having natural borders also helps though. Most immigration that occurs to Australia is from Asia and southeast Asia. Some European too. Australia is very isolated and an expensive place to travel that really could only be done by plane. For example, from the U.S. it's a 20 hour flight that usually doesn't go for under a thousand round trip.

What happens in America is we got illegal immigration (both overstayed visas and physically crossing from Mexico) and legal immigration. All in all though, birth-right citizenship for those ''anchor babies'' and the reluctancy of our government to break up families - inevitably make both nearly the same. Australia and other countries may have small problems like this, but it's not out of control like ours.
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Old 03-03-2008, 02:09 PM
 
418 posts, read 365,231 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viraj View Post
this thread is a joke- so basically let the illegals flow in at alarming rates but stop the small percent of educated legals who've worked hard and gone through the process that is in place- wonderful, im sure that would make everything perfect
No, obviously you're not interpreting my message clearly. You're seeing this too simple. As I said to others before, being that I live in New Jersey, I'm sure my intepretation is different than someone who lives in California. What makes you think there are so many more illegal immigrants than legal immigrants? There are actually more legal immigrants who do the right thing. I said this thread isn't about illegal immigration, so maybe you confused that with the rest of my message.

Too many people who would not like this kind of thread are only seeing the world in 2008 terms. Regardless of whether legal or illegal, the same results are to come in the end. That's an over-abundance of U.S. citizens. Eventually, their children will be citizens of the United States. They'll be as American as anyone else. And if they're living in California, I'm sure they'll be living experiencing the economical and educational American dream more than plenty of other Americans ever could. I'm say we should stop all immigration - legal and illegal. We have enough people in this country.

If we reduced the number of legal immigrants who were aloud in this country though, illegal immigrants would know something is wrong too. They'd know that may not be as welcomed. They'd know jobs might not be as availible. For all the money we throw into working-class legal immigrants could be used into hiring more border patrol and securing our borders better. Just like how all the money we use in fighting in Iraq could be used into improving and revising our health care and education.

For those who are already here, no one's getting deported. Legal or illegal. I'm saying to end it all. Not necessarily at once, but slowly. I don't think the idea of a moratorium would come about, but that could work too.
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Old 03-03-2008, 02:17 PM
 
418 posts, read 365,231 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by madicarus2000 View Post
There is a difference between taking a stand against illegal immigration and making ignorant statements about people. Yes, there needs to be something done about curbing and controlling the flow of illegal immigration but it means coming up with workable and reasonable solutions. Just calling them animals, claiming they are a bunch of ruthless murders and lack no compassion because of some crimes committed by illegals is ignorant, bigoted, and often times racists. Solutions are not racists in nature, but name calling a bunch of people is. That is the difference.

As far as controlling legal immigration, well the problem is the 2nd largest class of illegal immigrants is the legal immigrant who overstayed their visa. So it is a worthy discussion.
Well said. A big people is that people see all illegal immigrants as one. They label them all as one, even though each illegal immigrant's reasoning for ending up here varies and most have no clue who each other are. People don't realize it, but thinking of people collectively or for anything they can't control for that matter, could indirectly be bigoted. That's how it's generally seen in our culture. And ironic as it is, the liberal media stigmatizes people by reinforcing these collective labels on people (especially the NY media), yet most who live in liberal areas are more careful on judging people collectively.

Besides it being ignorant, bigoted and racist - it's also a waste of time. Along the bottom of the threads I've created and participated in, I see other threads. Do you know how often it is that I see something like illegal immigrant kills four people in car accident? As if people did that on purpose just to be a menace to society. Those threads are the one that not just bring out the worse in Americans and allow people to collectively judge Americans are unintellectual, but also make it a waste of time to write on here.

Legal immigration and illegal immigration will always be tied in together. Although one did it the right way and the other did it the wrong way (or just decided not to renew their visa) - people should begin to understand that they're isn't a big division between the two. The same results are to come out in the end.
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Old 03-03-2008, 02:25 PM
 
418 posts, read 365,231 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
My solution:

Seal the borders: Actual fencing and virtual fencing.

Increase patrols: Both the Border Patrol and the United States Military should be put on the borders. We should also increase the number of vessels that are searched coming into our ports. Increase the prescence of the United States Coast Guard.

Increase penalties: Illegal crossing should not be a "slap on the wrist". First offense should result in hard time - 15 to 20 years imprisionment. For the coyotes - those involved in human smuggling - the death penalty should be applied.
You're right. We should invest more into sealing our borders. However, I think too many of us would be naive to believe that our government doesn't actually want illegal immigration to come in. They want it to rise our population.

Assuming their on the side of American citizens though, this requires a lot of money. This requires the cooperation of other governments, state governments and a lot of funding. The political party who is most interested in creating a fencing border also happens to be the one that supports the idea of funding a multi-billion dollar war that isn't going anywhere and is contributing to hurting our economy. Democrats should invest more energy into this, and maybe if they're able to get our troops out of Iraq - they could do this. Other concerns like reforming Health care, social security and education will also be priorities that battle with illegal immigration too though. The biggest question is does our government want these illegal immigrants to help increase our population and maintain/increase our military, or are they in the best interests of containing the resources for U.S. citizens of now and the future?

I don't exactly know if the death penalty is the right measure for what punishment we are to give. This is a political issue. However, most who do enter our country illegally know this isn't to come about. Plus, sadly as it is - foreign governments may try to fight for those who they rejected, because they might take it as a sign of insult or humiliation if we began imprisoning and murdering their citizens.

The biggest thing we need to do is re-distribute our money properly. If we're able to do this, than good plans could come about.
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Old 03-03-2008, 02:28 PM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,490,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc0127 View Post
Well said. A big people is that people see all illegal immigrants as one. They label them all as one
Guess what? All illegal aliens are...get ready for this...sit down if you must...ILLEGALLY IN THE COUNTRY.

A bleeding-heart people label them something else: undocumented workers. The difference is that we are right. They all are illegal. They are all one: illegal. Bleeding-hearts are wrong. They're not all workers, and most are documented - fraudulently so.

It is the bleeding-hearts who have been brainwashed to see race in everything, not us.
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Old 03-03-2008, 02:32 PM
 
418 posts, read 365,231 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
That's rich! You make it sound like stopping the 12% would be as easy as turning a faucet. I don't think so. Focus on stopping the 88% FIRST.
Maybe you're over-estimating what illegal immigration actually is. Not for nothing, but some of the resources you're using may just be undependable or skewed. Maybe not enough are identifying the difference between who overstayed their visa and who crossed illegally. I wouldn't say that it's 88% or something like that. Come on now. Illegal immigration is a problem, but legal immigration is the biggest supplier for an expanding population. All in all, the same results are to come at the end of the day.

I mean would it even be possible for 88 percent of our immigrants to be ''illegal?'' Think about it. Some where in between one half to two thirds of our legal immigrants are from Mexico. Plenty of our illegal immigrants are not from Mexico. Considering Mexico's good border control of Guatemala and Canada's non-interest of immigrating (nonetheless illegally) - is it even possible for other immigrants to enter our country? Plus, if those immigrants were as illegal as you show them to be, how exactly are they being recorded? This is all estimates and I wouldn't be suprised if many of the statistics you're really are bloated. Even if their were equally as many illegals as legals (which I'm not sure is necessary true), would that mean we should only focus on illegal immigration?

If we stop legal immigration we're be leaving a more strict and condescending tone to illegal immigrants. All the money that's flooded into working-class immigrants to make sure their children don't leave below par to middle class America wouldn't be necessary. We'd be able to invest more into securing our borders.
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Old 03-03-2008, 02:33 PM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,490,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc0127 View Post
The biggest thing we need to do is re-distribute our money properly. If we're able to do this, than good plans could come about.
Are you communist? Socialist?
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