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Exactly, this is why Bill Gates is right. Americans don't study the sciences and immigrants who do, want to come here. I see this bill passing. Without immigrants to fill these tech slots, America would not be one of the leaders in technology. Take a trip to Silicon Valley where most shrink-wrap software is written...it is by far Asian and East Indian.
I know it is Apples and Oranges, but if we cannot even get Americans to study sciences and take back high paying tech jobs do we really think Americans are going to work hard enough to take back the low paying jobs?
This is why I think people who talk about stopping immigration to America have no idea what they are talking about, it couldn't happen unless you want American business to fall way behind.
Well the fact that those jobs that Americans want, seem to have the openings to absorb all those people
points to the fact that we have a problem with labor balance across the board. If Americans
started going into these science fields more, than I guess we would have a shortage of MBA's
and would have to import them. Now, the fact that there are large
amounts of people getting degrees in massage therapy;which would contribute
to labor shortages in more critical careers is more alarming. In all honesty, the importation
of these people to U.S. soil is not a good thing for our country or our
environment and quality of life, as we are becoming a crowded country.
Since this shortage includes technology workers, I find it difficult to
ascertain why the work can't be done in India. You might call this
outsourcing, but that could be managed by not allowing outsourcing
in fields with a higher than 7% unemployment rate. For me, it is the
environemt, population control, the rule of law, quality of life and of
course national and cultural stability that matters here the most.
I think part of the reasons is because education is still so expensive in this country, and we all know how much more expensive science education can become compare to other fields. That's probably why the problem is not so apparent in other modern European countries. One of my former co-workers is married to a Spanish doctor. I was told that in Spain higher education is heavily subsidized by their government, which makes it affordable to anyone. In turn, they have a lot more students who pursue science and medical field than we do here. On the downside, doctors there don't get as much pay as we do here (I think a general practitioner makes roughly $50,000 - $60,000annually in Spain). It's all about supply and demand.
Or maybe corporations like Microsoft could make a couple of billion dollars less in profits and pass it along to the workers. Maybe if Gates et al offered salaries that compete with Wall Street, more Americans will go into tech jobs. We dont have a shortage of smart kids in America, we have a shortage of high paying jobs in that area. Salaries need to be raised across the board, especially in light of the inflationary pressures of the falling dollar value. As long as our government keeps allowing corporations to keep salaries low by bringing in cheap labor, the divide will keep growing. Bill Gates doesn't need 40 billion dollars in the bank. Instead of giving billions of dollars to Africa, he should give it to his tech people. If the money is there, Americans WILL be glad to work for him.
Is 120k a year not a good salary? I thought it was .
Shoot entry level software engineers make 85k in California, 60k in Texas.
Bill Gates has given a lot to America, he has a five-year program called Partners in Learning that will funnel $250 million into school technology programs.
Facts are Universities are seeing drops in Computer Science students because the classes are too hard.
Quote:
"Five years ago, we had 2,000 undergraduates majoring in computer sciences. Today we have 850," said J. Strother Moore, who chairs the computer sciences department at UT.
Bill Gates gives pep talk to UT computer science majors | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Business News (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/DN-utgates_21bus.ART.State.Edition1.39a4288.html - broken link)
I don't think we have a shortage of smart kids in America, but rather a shortage of interest in science field in America. Regarding low salary standard, I just made an offer to an embedded firmware engineer for $50/hr and that's not small change by any standard, especially here in Kentucky where I live.
I think you are missing the point... We HAVE people that can fill those positions of the Visa holders BUT we need to train them in those positions... how many young poorly educated people do we have flipping burgers and what not... Would they like to make more money? The companies "should" be actively recruiting and training these people to work for these positions. Instead they want to have more Visa holders. Why? MONEY! Its cheaper to hire "cheap" foreign workers then find/educate workers here. I know MANY, MANY, MANY IT people who can't find jobs (and end up working in some other field because they can't find a job), so to say that there is a shortage of IT workers isn't completely true either and these jobs are filled by Visa Holders... the company makes more money by paying a Visa worker LESS than a U.S. worker... its a little con game by posting a job for 30k when the typical U.S. employee gets paid 50k and then saying, "We can't find U.S. employees. We need more VISA workers and pay them 25k for the same job." Its a little corporate tactic to find cheaper labor, however the Visa limit was "designed" to limit this abuse... its no wonder that corporation want to abuse it more by expanding that... why don't we try to bring the rest of those in poverty up to a better financial position with education and promises of jobs instead of offering it to a cheaper foreign worker... oh yeah, cause it doesn't make the company more money by doing it that way...
Is 120k a year not a good salary? I thought it was .
Shoot entry level software engineers make 85k in California, 60k in Texas.
Bill Gates has given a lot to America, he has a five-year program called Partners in Learning that will funnel $250 million into school technology programs.
Facts are Universities are seeing drops in Computer Science students because the classes are too hard.
Bill Gates gives pep talk to UT computer science majors | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Business News (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/DN-utgates_21bus.ART.State.Edition1.39a4288.html - broken link)
Obviously it's not a good salary for the education level. If it was, more Americans would be going into the field. You said yourself "the classes are too hard". Logic would dictate that the salary does not justify taking these classes. Logic would dictate that students smart enough to excel in these classes feel they can do better in other industries. The free market will fix everything IF you allow it to work. The American free market is not really free when the people at the top allow unlimited third world workers into the country to keep the salaries low. The reason third world countries ARE third world countries is often because the few people at the top are allowed to keep ALL the money and pay slave wages because THAT is what the market will bear in THEIR country. If you want America to be like that, you can keep defending CEOs that make billions of dollars while bringing in foreign workers to keep salaries low. Want to end the recession, start paying people more money and only take $100 million salary instead of $1 billion, or $10 million dollars instead of $100 million. Maybe those tech guys should be getting 300K instead of $120K and good 'ol, charitable Bill can make $1 Billion instead of 5. THEN see how hard it is to attract smart American students into the field. Why do American salaries have to be worth less and less each year? Didn't CEOs use to make something like 2 or 3 times that of their white colar workers? How come they have to make 100X or 1000X? Because they can? Is that a good enough answer? It seems like it is for all the pro business guys out there. I am not for socialism, or higher taxes, or anything like that. Hell, I think taxes are too high as it is. It's not about that at all.
Isn't it time we conservatives take some of our own advice and take the PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY to take it upon ourselves to do what is right for the country instead of our own wallets? If Bill is making SO MUCH extra money that he can give it away to the people of Africa, why isn't some of that extra money going to American citizens who want to work for it? It would help with the recession. It would help with the value of the dollar. America is hurting right now. We need to invest in THIS country for a change instead of giving away American dollars to all of these other countries?
BTW, do you realize you just justified Bill Gate's multibillion dollar salary by saying that $120K is a good enough salary for other people. Just something to ponder.
Location: Los Angeles, which as I understand was once upon a time ago part of the United States of America
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graceC
As an IT recruiter, I can attest to this 100%. At non managerial level, I can't seem to find non foreign talents to fill my openings. Yet, at managerial level, the landscape is snow white with little dots of brown, yellow, or black here and there. Ask any corporate recruiters and they'll tell you the same. That's why 'diversity recruiting' is such a hot keywords in big companies. In crowded states like CA, NY, etc... the shortage of technical talents may not be so apparent, but try finding a good talent in Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio, etc. And if you think they're cheap, well.... you obviously have never tried to hire them before. I believe the majority of former IT workers who claim they're being priced out of work by H1B workers are either 1) not that good to begin with or 2) are too lazy to keep up with computer technologies that change constantly. So they blame H1B workers as their scapegoat. Information Technology is one field that pays fairly according to your skills and experience. If you're very good in your field and constantly keep your skills up-to-date, you'll never find yourself priced out of work by anyone.
You are either misinformed, or are defending somebody with an H-1B visa, or are defending cheap labor for personal benefit. There are immigration attorneys who give seminars regarding how to avoid American workers and only hire cheap foreign labor, such as highlighted in the video leaked by Cohen and Grigsby, which was posted on Youtube and featured on a segment of Glenn Beck's show, and perhaps Lou Dobb's as well. If there was a shortage of American workers, there would be no point in immigration attorneys giving speeches to rooms full of HR employees as to how they can discriminate against American workers in order to hire cheap labor from overseas, since there would be no Americans soliciting in droves for the very limited number of positions available at any one time.
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