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Old 07-15-2008, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,170 posts, read 17,623,780 times
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IMO, the concept of dual citizenship negates “true” allegiance to a country; and enables one to essentially alternate loyalty. It’s disturbing that people can immigrate to this country and live as a U.S. citizen, with all of the afforded rights and privileges, while simultaneously vowing allegiance to, and engaging in the political arena of another country. I concur with Ms. Salvato; I just don’t believe one can equally love two countries.

Quote:
Between l994 and 2002, over 90 percent of the immigrants to this country were dual citizens. When an immigrant to this country becomes a citizen yet continues to actively participate politically in the home country, this clearly represents a conflict of interest. Yet, the United States does not regulate whether dual citizens vote, serve, or fight for a foreign government. As a result, countries like Mexico encourage its nationals living in the United States to vote absentee in their elections. As a matter of fact, candidates for office in Mexico actually campaign in the United States as if these nationals still lived in their country. Certain Israeli political parties (Orthodox-Haredi mainly) regularly airlift their followers to Israel to vote. Dominicans actually voted at polling booths set up in New York. This list goes on. It is well known that political participation fosters and reflects an emotional bond with a country. How can an immigrant express patriotism and vote in our elections through an American frame of reference when there is no expectation of true allegiance to the home team?
The New Media Journal | The Issue of Dual Citizenship in the US by Nancy Salvato
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Old 07-15-2008, 10:25 AM
 
8,729 posts, read 6,667,581 times
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If you think a peice of paper is going to make someone loyal to this country or not, you are crazy.

Many are dual citizens because of convience with visiting family in their former country and in dealing with legalities that may arise in their former country if they need to i.e. a death in the family.

Also some are entitled to a pension from their former country but will be unable to collect it if they do not have citizenship, this is the case with many people I know.

There have been many non-citizens that have done great things for this country just as there have been many citizens that have done great harm to this country.

Idealogies and loyalties are not confined to a peice of paper.

Maybe you should go and talk to someone who has dual citizenship and ask them instead of relying on some biased article by someone with an agenda.
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Old 07-15-2008, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Western Mass.
605 posts, read 2,312,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
IMO, the concept of dual citizenship negates “true” allegiance to a country; and enables one to essentially alternate loyalty. It’s disturbing that people can immigrate to this country and live as a U.S. citizen, with all of the afforded rights and privileges, while simultaneously vowing allegiance to, and engaging in the political arena of another country. I concur with Ms. Salvato; I just don’t believe one can equally love two countries.



The New Media Journal | The Issue of Dual Citizenship in the US by Nancy Salvato
Is this really such a problem? Most developed nations "tolerate" dual citizenship status. In fact one of the reasosn it occurs so frequently is that many countries actually make it such a pain to renounce citizenship that most people probably take the path of least resistance and do nothing. Once someone jumps through all the various hoops to become a U.S. citizen then they've probably engaged emotionally with their new homeland. Surely the original citizenship in real terms for most would consist of a passport at the bottom of the sock drawer?

I really don't know, not having been in that situation myself - just speculating on the likely mindset.
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Old 07-15-2008, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Denver
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Technically I am a dual citizen, because to Mexico if your mother or father were born a Mexican citizen then no matter where you were born you are a Mexican citizen.

However, I would be loyal to the US, and have served... like I said I was a commissioned Naval officer and went to Desert Shield aboard the JFK CV-67.

I agree with k350 a piece of paper does not make someone loyal.

I have to admit my resolve has been poisoned a bit by all the latest anti-illegal (anti-Mexican) talk, but that has nothing to do with being a dual citizen. I think many people are not liking their America right now and find loyalty difficult.
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Old 07-15-2008, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Road Warrior
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The problem with so-called allegiance, is that we as Americans if more willing to teaching recent immigrants our language and culture perhaps they can become more productive Americans. Secondly in our day and age, diplomats are not the only ones who are global travelers, we live in a mobile society and the United States may be the country of allegiance, yet the globe is no less your home as well.
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Old 07-15-2008, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,170 posts, read 17,623,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k350 View Post
If you think a peice of paper is going to make someone loyal to this country or not, you are crazy.

Many are dual citizens because of convience with visiting family in their former country and in dealing with legalities that may arise in their former country if they need to i.e. a death in the family.

Also some are entitled to a pension from their former country but will be unable to collect it if they do not have citizenship, this is the case with many people I know.

There have been many non-citizens that have done great things for this country just as there have been many citizens that have done great harm to this country.

Idealogies and loyalties are not confined to a peice of paper.

Maybe you should go and talk to someone who has dual citizenship and ask them instead of relying on some biased article by someone with an agenda.
Of course, you are entitled to your opinion, as am I. Do you consider the article “biased” because it opposes your view, or do you have information you’d care to share to refute it? I doubt if the experiences of a select group of individuals is an accurate representation of all.

I am not questioning their “contributions” to this country, only their allegiance.
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Old 07-15-2008, 10:49 AM
 
4,829 posts, read 7,414,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k350 View Post
If you think a peice of paper is going to make someone loyal to this country or not, you are crazy.

Many are dual citizens because of convience with visiting family in their former country and in dealing with legalities that may arise in their former country if they need to i.e. a death in the family.

Also some are entitled to a pension from their former country but will be unable to collect it if they do not have citizenship, this is the case with many people I know.

There have been many non-citizens that have done great things for this country just as there have been many citizens that have done great harm to this country.

Idealogies and loyalties are not confined to a peice of paper.

Maybe you should go and talk to someone who has dual citizenship and ask them instead of relying on some biased article by someone with an agenda.
Good post, some just have that "you are with us or against us mentality".
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Old 07-15-2008, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Denver
9,963 posts, read 17,645,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Of course, you are entitled to your opinion, as am I. Do you consider the article “biased” because it opposes your view, or do you have information you’d care to share to refute it? I doubt if the experiences of a select group of individuals is an accurate representation of all.

I am not questioning their “contributions” to this country, only their allegiance.
IMO, I think there are many more "true born proper Americans" that have questionable allegiance, than immigrants with DC.
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Old 07-15-2008, 10:55 AM
 
8,729 posts, read 6,667,581 times
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I consider it biased because it is obviously slanted towards the illegal immigration debate that is going on.

I have lots of experince with dual citizenship as my wife is about to be one and the nature of my previous job dealt with it.

The small example I presented is as an accurate representation as the example in the story.

Allegience does not mean anything, someone is not going to remain pledged to anything just because a peice of paper tells them to be.

People are more loyal to ideas than anything else, not states. If the state represents their idea, then the loyalty will be there, but do not rely on blind allegience to the state out of "just because", many countries have fallen because of that beleif.
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Old 07-15-2008, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,170 posts, read 17,623,780 times
Reputation: 3036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Technically I am a dual citizen, because to Mexico if your mother or father were born a Mexican citizen then no matter where you were born you are a Mexican citizen.

However, I would be loyal to the US, and have served... like I said I was a commissioned Naval officer and went to Desert Shield aboard the JFK CV-67.

I agree with k350 a piece of paper does not make someone loyal.

I have to admit my resolve has been poisoned a bit by all the latest anti-illegal (anti-Mexican) talk, but that has nothing to do with being a dual citizen. I think many people are not liking their America right now and find loyalty difficult.
I do not dispute the fact that "a piece of paper" does not dictate one's loyalty. You, as a dual citizen, can most definitely attest to that. I am also not questioning your loyalty to this country. I simply find it difficult to believe that a person can “equally” hold allegiance to two countries. If, God forbid, we should engage in a military conflict with Mexico, how would you feel? Would it create a conflict for you, or would you automatically align yourself with the US?
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