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Old 06-27-2009, 09:46 PM
 
Location: USA
4,980 posts, read 7,666,664 times
Reputation: 2506

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Unfavorable to me as an American-------SSN fraud is a Felony.

If I got busted for that crap------my butt would be in jail-----why should a bunch of illegals get off Scotfree for SSN fraud on top of being here illegally?

Exactly. They think because they aren't citizens, they aren't subject to our laws and want preferential treatment like they are vacationers here.
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Old 06-27-2009, 09:47 PM
 
Location: USA
4,980 posts, read 7,666,664 times
Reputation: 2506
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Yet a bunch of insolent lawbreakers who do not speak English (Mexicans, etc) to boot as their first language actually expect amnesty---------that is a slap in my face as an American.

They are getting plenty free off our tax dollars too. That's insult to injury, IMO.
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Old 06-27-2009, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Orlando, Florida
43,858 posts, read 41,148,052 times
Reputation: 58499
Europeans - No longer Immigrating to US?

I guess it took all week and 5 beers for me to finally post.........WHO CARES????
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Old 06-28-2009, 07:12 AM
 
9,723 posts, read 14,302,951 times
Reputation: 12201
Quote:
Originally Posted by glass_of_merlot View Post
The only reason I moved here is because of my husband. All my friends and family members have never expressed any desire to move here. Heck, they hardly want to come and visit. ( for other reasons then to see me and my family ) . When people come over to the States to tourist, it is to go shopping in NYC first and foremost.
I love this country but it is not the dream-land it just to be back in the days.

@@@Merlot
The same here:>)

@@@Does anyone answer questions here?
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Old 06-28-2009, 09:28 AM
 
40,783 posts, read 38,406,126 times
Reputation: 12958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweden View Post
To all the people who claim to have lived in "Europe" here... I do doubt that, because if you had, you wouldn't be calling it "Europe". You'd be saying WHERE you lived, as it is not a country, but a continent. There are VAST differences between each and every country. It's not like comparing states with other states.

Europeans (mainly Eastern?) are still migrating to the US, and Americans are still migrating to European (mainly Western) countries.
The question isn't "why wouldn't they?", but "why would they?" Many of the Western European countries are better off than the US, thus there is no need to move elsewhere. Those who move have other reasons, such as love, interest in moving to another country, being "shipped over" by their workplace, etc.

Migration throughout the history of mankind has usually been because of a "need" to move elsewhere (usually because of poor food supply etc.). So, today, people from poorer countries are moving to richer countries in greater numbers than people from richer countries are moving to other rich countries. Just a fact of life
That is a good point to bring up. Much of the migration of Europeans to the USA is mainly from Eastern Europe. I live in the metro Atlanta area and there is a sizeable constituency of Romanians who immigrated to Atlanta.
As for Americans going to Western Europe, I have thought about living in France or Switzerland.

Much migration is due to need. Many people migrate because conditions in the nations of their origin might be bad for them and they are looking for a place where they feel they could thrive or have a better life.
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Old 06-28-2009, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
4,669 posts, read 2,523,516 times
Reputation: 2798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spincycle View Post
Why aren't Europeans, esp. Western Europeans immigrating to the US anymore?

I have heard 2 opposing viewpoints on the subject matter.

One side says that the current US policy, system, and diversity quotas literally discourage/restrict immigration from non-minority, white, European nations.

Other side argues that Europeans, esp. Western Europeans resent the US and US lifestyle and are much happier with their system of government and social services at home.

What gives?
Read your history and check out current economics in Europe and you'll understand why.

The Western Europeans who migrated to America during the past 2 centuries did so mostly out of economic necessity: research "indentured servitude" in North America, others came here for religious reasons, others were anxious to leave war ravaged areas, a lot of Irish came here to escape the Great Potato famine, others came here because they were on the short end of primogeniture inheritance laws, etc. Most of these early European immigrants were illiterate and had no assets other than a desire to work and "improve their lot in life". They were very, very poor and had nothing to lose. AND there were also criminals who came over in an attempt to start a new life.

Imagine you're a modern Western European today. You are likely to:

1. have marketable skills because of the free education/training you received from the state
2. speak at least two languages
3. have a job
4. have 30 to 45 days paid vacation every year
5. have free health care
6. be in relatively good health because you can walk darn near everywhere because you live in a "walkable" city
7. have access to cheap, reliable transit
8. don't have to have a car and the expense that it entails because of number 6 and 7 above
9. have free movement throughout Europe thanks to your EU passport
10. have all your family and friends in Europe and don't want to move too far away from them.
11. have a decent pension
12. have no fear of the government. On the contrary, the government is fearful of the people, as it happens in France.

Why, then, move to the US? In other words, if you have it fairly good over there, WHY come here? They don't have that many economic issues that would prompt them to uproot themselves to come here.

How many multimillionaires walked through the doors of Ellis Island?

Bottom line is most of the people who migrated/migrate to this country did/do so out of economic necessity. It just so happens that the majority of the immigrants we get nowadays are not white Europeans.

As far as immigration laws/rules, all countries have them. If you're an American citizen, try to move (legally) to Canada or Europe.
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Old 06-28-2009, 11:10 AM
 
22,760 posts, read 33,627,238 times
Reputation: 11390
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDnurse View Post
Read your history and check out current economics in Europe and you'll understand why.

The Western Europeans who migrated to America during the past 2 centuries did so mostly out of economic necessity: research "indentured servitude" in North America, others came here for religious reasons, others were anxious to leave war ravaged areas, a lot of Irish came here to escape the Great Potato famine, others came here because they were on the short end of primogeniture inheritance laws, etc. Most of these early European immigrants were illiterate and had no assets other than a desire to work and "improve their lot in life". They were very, very poor and had nothing to lose. AND there were also criminals who came over in an attempt to start a new life.

Imagine you're a modern Western European today. You are likely to:

1. have marketable skills because of the free education/training you received from the state
2. speak at least two languages
3. have a job
4. have 30 to 45 days paid vacation every year
5. have free health care
6. be in relatively good health because you can walk darn near everywhere because you live in a "walkable" city
7. have access to cheap, reliable transit
8. don't have to have a car and the expense that it entails because of number 6 and 7 above
9. have free movement throughout Europe thanks to your EU passport
10. have all your family and friends in Europe and don't want to move too far away from them.
11. have a decent pension
12. have no fear of the government. On the contrary, the government is fearful of the people, as it happens in France.

Why, then, move to the US? In other words, if you have it fairly good over there, WHY come here? They don't have that many economic issues that would prompt them to uproot themselves to come here.

How many multimillionaires walked through the doors of Ellis Island?

Bottom line is most of the people who migrated/migrate to this country did/do so out of economic necessity. It just so happens that the majority of the immigrants we get nowadays are not white Europeans.

As far as immigration laws/rules, all countries have them. If you're an American citizen, try to move (legally) to Canada or Europe.
Imagine you're a modern Western European today. You are likely to:

1. have marketable skills because of the free education/training you received from the state

Free? Do you know how much taxes you pay so the school system is free as you are stating....
2. speak at least two languages True, necessary if you live so close to different countries and English, France, and German were mandatory for at least 2 yrs.
3. have a job That all depends, many people have unemployment benefits and get the same if they would work or not, so guess they rather stay home and get a free handout...of course the majority works
4. have 30 to 45 days paid vacation every year at least 25, that is so true.
5. have free health care paid from your taxes and every one else their taxes, so free is just the way you want to see it
6. be in relatively good health because you can walk darn near everywhere because you live in a "walkable" city millions of people don't live in the city, but it is true the public transportation is much better than over here
7. have access to cheap, reliable transit Paid by the tax payer, that is why the taxes are so much higher than over here
8. don't have to have a car and the expense that it entails because of number 6 and 7 above In the Netherlands there are approx. 7 million cars and 16 million people living there, incl. babies, children and elderly people so many cars and many traffic jams. Btw the public transportations isn't for free and can get expensive if you need it on a daily base, but at least it is available...Trains, buses, metro, tram, you have to pay to get on it!
9. have free movement throughout Europe thanks to your EU passport I just paid $ 82.- p.p. to get a new passport, so what is free about it...you need at least a car, or train to get abroad and that isn't for free and gas prices are way higher than overhere
10. have all your family and friends in Europe and don't want to move too far away from them. depends where your family lives
11. have a decent pension All depends on how many yrs of work and how high your salary was.
12. have no fear of the government. On the contrary, the government is fearful of the people, as it happens in France.that is true, but freedom of speech is gone or you will be killed, not by the government but by certain extremist groups that are growing each day
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Old 06-28-2009, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Loudoun County, VA
1,148 posts, read 3,131,836 times
Reputation: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDnurse View Post
Why, then, move to the US? In other words, if you have it fairly good over there, WHY come here?
I came for love from a Northern European country. Not that I came here looking for love, lol, but happened to meet my husband while traveling here almost a decade ago. Took a big "downgrade" in life in many aspects but would never move back now.
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Old 06-28-2009, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
4,669 posts, read 2,523,516 times
Reputation: 2798
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee View Post
Imagine you're a modern Western European today. You are likely to:

1. have marketable skills because of the free education/training you received from the state

Free? Do you know how much taxes you pay so the school system is free as you are stating....
2. speak at least two languages True, necessary if you live so close to different countries and English, France, and German were mandatory for at least 2 yrs.
3. have a job That all depends, many people have unemployment benefits and get the same if they would work or not, so guess they rather stay home and get a free handout...of course the majority works
4. have 30 to 45 days paid vacation every year at least 25, that is so true.
5. have free health care paid from your taxes and every one else their taxes, so free is just the way you want to see it
6. be in relatively good health because you can walk darn near everywhere because you live in a "walkable" city millions of people don't live in the city, but it is true the public transportation is much better than over here
7. have access to cheap, reliable transit Paid by the tax payer, that is why the taxes are so much higher than over here
8. don't have to have a car and the expense that it entails because of number 6 and 7 above In the Netherlands there are approx. 7 million cars and 16 million people living there, incl. babies, children and elderly people so many cars and many traffic jams. Btw the public transportations isn't for free and can get expensive if you need it on a daily base, but at least it is available...Trains, buses, metro, tram, you have to pay to get on it!
9. have free movement throughout Europe thanks to your EU passport I just paid $ 82.- p.p. to get a new passport, so what is free about it...you need at least a car, or train to get abroad and that isn't for free and gas prices are way higher than overhere
10. have all your family and friends in Europe and don't want to move too far away from them. depends where your family lives
11. have a decent pension All depends on how many yrs of work and how high your salary was.
12. have no fear of the government. On the contrary, the government is fearful of the people, as it happens in France.that is true, but freedom of speech is gone or you will be killed, not by the government but by certain extremist groups that are growing each day
Take a deep breath, bentlebee.

Taxes in Europe are outrageous and probably unacceptable to the average American. MY taxes do not pay for their healthcare. It is THEIR taxes paying for THEIR healthcare. If the Europeans can live with it, it is their business.

When I said "free movement" I was not referring to money, but to the ability to move without restrictions or quotas across borders from one country to another. Example: a Belgian teaching and living in Italy, a Brit living in Spain, etc. BTW, do you have an American passport or an EU passport?

I said transit was "cheap" not "free" when you compare it to the expense of operating an automobile. If you want to own and operate an automobile in Western Europe you can do so, provided you're willing to spend the money. In a lot of places though, you don't have to have a car to live well.

As far as people having jobs, they have their share of bums just like we do. Maybe one day, the people on both sides of the Atlantic will get tired of them. I don't have a solution to that problem. It's not like you can shoot them. Maybe some day somebody will come up with a viable solution.

I think you are concerned about the vociferous Muslim communities in Europe. I do not believe freedom of speech is gone in Europe. Over the centuries, the Europeans have endured many wars on their soil. A lot of these wars involved religion. The Europeans have learned to pick their battles carefully and not to sweat that stuff any more. A Muslim can make as much noise as he wants, but I am quite confident that Sharia law is not going to be the law of the land in Europe.

Picture this: a loud Muslim group attempting to interfere with the consumption of "vino" in a tapas bar in Madrid, a cafe in Paris, a restaurant in Italy. Imagine a loud Muslim group protesting beer at a soccer match in England or any celebration in Germany. I'm pretty sure said Muslim group is going to get PUMMELED by the locals and literally kicked down the street all the way back to Morocco. Don't underestimate the Europeans. Throughout their history, they have killed plenty of people. People talk a lot of trash about the French, for example. The French revolution can make the Taliban look like boy scouts.

I wasn't trying to say that the European way of doing things is better than ours. I just wanted to say that perhaps, the Europeans might just be quite content with where they're at and see no pressing need to migrate over here.
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Old 06-28-2009, 04:53 PM
 
22,760 posts, read 33,627,238 times
Reputation: 11390
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDnurse View Post
Take a deep breath, bentlebee.

Taxes in Europe are outrageous and probably unacceptable to the average American. MY taxes do not pay for their healthcare. It is THEIR taxes paying for THEIR healthcare. If the Europeans can live with it, it is their business.

When I said "free movement" I was not referring to money, but to the ability to move without restrictions or quotas across borders from one country to another. Example: a Belgian teaching and living in Italy, a Brit living in Spain, etc. BTW, do you have an American passport or an EU passport?

I said transit was "cheap" not "free" when you compare it to the expense of operating an automobile. If you want to own and operate an automobile in Western Europe you can do so, provided you're willing to spend the money. In a lot of places though, you don't have to have a car to live well.

As far as people having jobs, they have their share of bums just like we do. Maybe one day, the people on both sides of the Atlantic will get tired of them. I don't have a solution to that problem. It's not like you can shoot them. Maybe some day somebody will come up with a viable solution.

I think you are concerned about the vociferous Muslim communities in Europe. I do not believe freedom of speech is gone in Europe. Over the centuries, the Europeans have endured many wars on their soil. A lot of these wars involved religion. The Europeans have learned to pick their battles carefully and not to sweat that stuff any more. A Muslim can make as much noise as he wants, but I am quite confident that Sharia law is not going to be the law of the land in Europe.

Picture this: a loud Muslim group attempting to interfere with the consumption of "vino" in a tapas bar in Madrid, a cafe in Paris, a restaurant in Italy. Imagine a loud Muslim group protesting beer at a soccer match in England or any celebration in Germany. I'm pretty sure said Muslim group is going to get PUMMELED by the locals and literally kicked down the street all the way back to Morocco. Don't underestimate the Europeans. Throughout their history, they have killed plenty of people. People talk a lot of trash about the French, for example. The French revolution can make the Taliban look like boy scouts.

I wasn't trying to say that the European way of doing things is better than ours. I just wanted to say that perhaps, the Europeans might just be quite content with where they're at and see no pressing need to migrate over here.
If you want to work in another EU country and your are born in EU Country you still need a special kind of permit to work in another EU Country if it is for longer than 3 months...so not exactly how you descibe it. You may work or stay for 3 months without that permit....
The rules are a little easier but not exactly that you can do and stay as long as you want. You also will loose money on your pension (AOW/soc. sec.) when you leave your country...so basically it isn't like you can do whatever you want in whatever European Union country.
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