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Old 07-20-2009, 10:33 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
19,865 posts, read 18,285,126 times
Reputation: 7950

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee View Post
I think that depends on how you were raised and has nothing to do with being a European...All my family members and friends owned their own homes and tried to work as hard as possible to get a better life...and started out by renting.

Many Germans own expensive cars and have cheap home furniture, since they care about what others see from the outside...

Europeans are for sure not affraid of using the system and get fre money from the government...it has been showed over and over on tv that Chinees people who started businesses in Europe never use the government although they have the right to get money, they all help out their family members since they are humiliated to do otherwise....Europeans not, if they can get as much money and not work they will do so...just read the papers and if you are or ever were an employer you would know how many just came to try to get a job and do everything not to get hired just to fullfill the requirement to get their unemployment check!
I don't know what kind of people you know, I don't know any people like that and I have lived in Europe all my life. Neither did I collect any unemployment benefits when I was unemployed for a little while. I used up my savings, and most people do. And those people who do not have savings, well, they are right in seeking help from the state. Why pay into the security system and not use it when you really have to? Sure, there are a few people who exploit it, but it is blown out of proportion by right-wing media such as Bildzeitung. When you go and ask people face-to-face, nobody personally knows any person like that. They only know from hearsay that there are people like that.
Regarding home-ownership, of course there are Germans who have their own homes, but in the part of Germany I am from the rate is about 25%, whereas in the States it is around 70%. I don't know of any home-owners in my extended family. We are not rich, but we are not stupid, either. So we don't fall for those theoretical calculations saying that over the course of decades buying is cheaper than renting. Still, having a mortgage in Europe is much safer than in the US. The entire body of laws is designed to help the weak party, not the banks and whoever seeks to benefit from people's financial troubles.
Also, the European population is shrinking, so people often buy homes that are already there, anyway, whereas in the States the population is still growing and suburbs are sprawling and destroying the environment.

Last edited by Neuling; 07-20-2009 at 10:57 AM..
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Old 07-20-2009, 10:38 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
19,865 posts, read 18,285,126 times
Reputation: 7950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threestep View Post
Do you want articles out of today's German newspapers?
No thanks, I have bookmarked the big ones anyway, I read them regularly You just won't find Detroit or Baltimore environments in Germany, sorry.
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Old 07-20-2009, 12:16 PM
 
14,253 posts, read 14,717,764 times
Reputation: 13611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I don't know what kind of people you know, I don't know any people like that and I have lived in Europe all my life. Neither did I collect any unemployment benefits when I was unemployed for a little while. I used up my savings, and most people do. And those people who do not have savings, well, they are right in seeking help from the state. Why pay into the security system and not use it when you really have to? Sure, there are a few people who exploit it, but it is blown out of proportion by right-wing media such as Bildzeitung. When you go and ask people face-to-face, nobody personally knows any person like that. They only know from hearsay that there are people like that.
Regarding home-ownership, of course there are Germans who have their own homes, but in the part of Germany I am from the rate is about 25%, whereas in the States it is around 70%. I don't know of any home-owners in my extended family. We are not rich, but we are not stupid, either. So we don't fall for those theoretical calculations saying that over the course of decades buying is cheaper than renting. Still, having a mortgage in Europe is much safer than in the US. The entire body of laws is designed to help the weak party, not the banks and whoever seeks to benefit from people's financial troubles.
Also, the European population is shrinking, so people often buy homes that are already there, anyway, whereas in the States the population is still growing and suburbs are sprawling and destroying the environment.
I grew up in the UK, lived in Switzerland and now live in the USA. The decision to buy or rent really depends on where you are. In the UK and the USA, to buy makes economic sense. In Switzerland it did not. It is just a question of running the numbers.

Some European countries have better vacation standards than others. In Switzerland I got exactly the same as I get in the USA. The same goes for unemployment benefit (I have never been unemployed). Some are more generous than others.

I did okay, in the UK. I did much better in Switzerland. But the USA has offered me far more opportunity and far more success than I ever had in Europe. One of the big differences - and I accept that this differs from country to country - is that no-one in the USA is jealous of my success. In Europe there is a lot of jealousy.

Finally, the environment. The USA is far less crowded that Europe and the environment has suffered far less than in Europe. The USA has very effective laws which protect the environment, just as effective as in Europe.
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Old 07-20-2009, 01:44 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
19,865 posts, read 18,285,126 times
Reputation: 7950
I have worked for an American company and the fixation on success, business, productivity really pissed me off. There business was taken way too seriously for my taste, all this 'we' crap, we against all other companies. Gee, the world is not a game of monopoly, a job serves to pay bills, no more, no less. 'Get a life' I felt like yelling at them. Well, I quit after some time and it was the best thing I ever did. It is just not my cup of tea, I am not interested in success, I just want my slow, materially humble life, my rented 20m apartment That is why Portugal is pretty good for someone like me
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Old 07-20-2009, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,691 posts, read 86,702,945 times
Reputation: 29343
About the last 5 pages illustrate why there isn't much immigration from Europe to the U.S. any more. When you're left to argue at the margins about which is better, nicer, provides more opportunity, has a higher standard of living, etc., there's no compelling reason for people to move en masse from one to the other.
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Old 07-20-2009, 02:50 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
19,865 posts, read 18,285,126 times
Reputation: 7950
Yes, I guess the times of mass migration are pretty much over. The classical immigrant countries in the Americas, but also Australia have closed their doors. These days it is Africans trying to get to Europe, also for economic reasons.
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Old 07-20-2009, 03:04 PM
 
5,807 posts, read 10,323,640 times
Reputation: 4306
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Or there just isn't any reason to immigrate? Most people immigrate out of economic necessity these days. Europe no longer has teeming massed of impoverished looking for a place to start over and make their own.
Exactly.

I thought this was common knowledge everyone knew.
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Old 07-20-2009, 05:04 PM
 
25,320 posts, read 37,407,782 times
Reputation: 13240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I don't know what kind of people you know, I don't know any people like that and I have lived in Europe all my life. Neither did I collect any unemployment benefits when I was unemployed for a little while. I used up my savings, and most people do. And those people who do not have savings, well, they are right in seeking help from the state. Why pay into the security system and not use it when you really have to? Sure, there are a few people who exploit it, but it is blown out of proportion by right-wing media such as Bildzeitung. When you go and ask people face-to-face, nobody personally knows any person like that. They only know from hearsay that there are people like that.
Regarding home-ownership, of course there are Germans who have their own homes, but in the part of Germany I am from the rate is about 25%, whereas in the States it is around 70%. I don't know of any home-owners in my extended family. We are not rich, but we are not stupid, either. So we don't fall for those theoretical calculations saying that over the course of decades buying is cheaper than renting. Still, having a mortgage in Europe is much safer than in the US. The entire body of laws is designed to help the weak party, not the banks and whoever seeks to benefit from people's financial troubles.
Also, the European population is shrinking, so people often buy homes that are already there, anyway, whereas in the States the population is still growing and suburbs are sprawling and destroying the environment.
I guess you are so different from all the people I ever met in Europe and probable not from Holland. The only way you won't receive unemployment benefits after one yr of umemployment is if you have savings...but the first year every one gets it automatically...so don't act like a hypocrite and a good samaritan just to get yor point accross. If you don't know any home owners in your family or extended family...that shows your background, since most pople who made something of their lives were smart enough to buy like people do over here and is nothing special in Europe. Renting is for people who either can't afford to buy or who are saving to by or don't have enough income to do so. We had friends who's family was on welfare and we helped him to get a job and a few years later he applied for a loan and got one and bought a small home. He was so proud to do so, the first in his family!

I have the feeling people just want to put others in boxes and put a mark on them being rconservative when it is just an average and reasonable behavior that many liberal also do in The Netherlands, just to show over here that others have a hidden agenda.
It comes across as dishonest and decribes Europeans like they aren't. Just read some newspapers and read some comments.
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Old 07-20-2009, 05:14 PM
 
Location: St Thomas, US Virgin Islands
24,671 posts, read 55,441,861 times
Reputation: 26420
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee View Post
I guess you are so different from all the people I ever met in Europe and probable not from Holland. The only way you won't receive unemployment benefits after one yr of umemployment is if you have savings...but the first year every one gets it automatically...so don't act like a hypocrite and a good samaritan just to get yor point accross. If you don't know any home owners in your family or extended family...that shows your background, since most pople who made something of their lives were smart enough to buy like people do over here and is nothing special in Europe. Renting is for people who either can't afford to buy or who are saving to by or don't have enough income to do so. We had friends who's family was on welfare and we helped him to get a job and a few years later he applied for a loan and got one and bought a small home. He was so proud to do so, the first in his family!

I have the feeling people just want to put others in boxes and put a mark on them being rconservative when it is just an average and reasonable behavior that many liberal also do in The Netherlands, just to show over here that others have a hidden agenda.
It comes across as dishonest and decribes Europeans like they aren't. Just read some newspapers and read some comments.
As far as the last highlighted comment, don't you think the first two comments of yours which I highlighted aptly illustrate your own propensity for generalization and putting people in boxes? I fail to understand much of what you write as your written word doesn't translate easily but in this case you certainly seem to contradict yourself.
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:09 PM
 
14,253 posts, read 14,717,764 times
Reputation: 13611
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee View Post
If you don't know any home owners in your family or extended family...that shows your background, since most pople who made something of their lives were smart enough to buy like people do over here and is nothing special in Europe. Renting is for people who either can't afford to buy or who are saving to by or don't have enough income to do so.
Absolutely not the case. As I said it differs from country to country. I was a homeowner in the UK and am a homeowner in the USA but I rented in Switzerland because it did not make economic sense to buy.
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