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Old 09-10-2009, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,145 posts, read 36,153,836 times
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One thing that many people may not realize is that not so long ago; Europe by and large, was a toxic waste dump............remember WW II?

And the horror of that war was so damn great that both France and the then W Germany realized all parties involved had to work together hence Europe today being almost 'Nirvana'.
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:05 PM
 
124 posts, read 268,287 times
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Europeans lead a very high life style. Health care, culture, life quality is better then in the U.S. 25days paid vacation, paid sick days etc. are too nice to change it for what? And: it's not easy to immigrate to the US anymore. Unless you are sponsored from a US employer of you marry a US citizen, there is not such a thing as a Greencard. Except the DVLottery.
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,691 posts, read 85,481,293 times
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It's interesting to watch the cognitive dissonance at work in this thread. "It's too hard to immigrate to America any more. But who would want to anyway?"
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:22 PM
 
9,972 posts, read 13,705,843 times
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I've known a lot of Europeans(mostly Germans) who were temporarily in the US for a job. Most of them, while enjoying their time in the US, never had the slightest desire to pursue permanent immigration to the US. Granted, we're talking about skilled professionals for the most part, but compared to the Indians and Chinese I've worked with(who for the most part were eager to permanently settle in the US), Europeans have a high enough standard of living and job benefits, that the idea of settling in the US isn't considered. To say Europeans is a bit of a misnomer--its more Western Europeans. There are still a lot Poles, Russians(a lot here in Portland), and other Eastern European nationalities that given the chance, would love to come to America(or to Western Europe).
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:49 AM
 
Location: Earth
17,449 posts, read 22,423,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
One thing that many people may not realize is that not so long ago; Europe by and large, was a toxic waste dump............remember WW II?

And the horror of that war was so damn great that both France and the then W Germany realized all parties involved had to work together hence Europe today being almost 'Nirvana'.
And it's not out of the question that things could turn nasty again and the "ugly European" could re-emerge.

Those who have followed some of the recent news coming out of Italy are aware that Western Europeans do have the potential to get really, really brutal again, and I don't mean just at football matches.

People might not expect me to say this because I lean left, but the conservative Sarkozy being in charge of France is probably the only thing keeping France from going in a fascist direction. If Segolene Royal had won the election, not only would there be more banlieue riots but the Front National would be getting REALLY huge and most likely the next French President would be Le Pen. Better the moderate right than out and out fascists any day.
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Old 09-11-2009, 05:25 AM
 
1,257 posts, read 2,986,668 times
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Majoun

Don't pay attention to the "progressive" European press.
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Old 09-11-2009, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,145 posts, read 36,153,836 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majoun View Post
And it's not out of the question that things could turn nasty again and the "ugly European" could re-emerge.

Those who have followed some of the recent news coming out of Italy are aware that Western Europeans do have the potential to get really, really brutal again, and I don't mean just at football matches.

People might not expect me to say this because I lean left, but the conservative Sarkozy being in charge of France is probably the only thing keeping France from going in a fascist direction. If Segolene Royal had won the election, not only would there be more banlieue riots but the Front National would be getting REALLY huge and most likely the next French President would be Le Pen. Better the moderate right than out and out fascists any day.
Two quick notes here:

#1: looking at Europe's below replacement birthrate...........that may very well defuse potential social/racial tension. Tough to fight a war with no cannon fodder.

#2: Sarkozy sounds like a moderate Conservative............in practice; moderates on either side of the aisle have more in common with one another vs. their extremists on the same side. i.e. Nazis/Facists or Communists.
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Houston
3,567 posts, read 3,726,901 times
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haha, too many people here talking who have never been to Europe. It's just pointless arguing then.
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:14 PM
 
674 posts, read 1,348,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majoun View Post
And it's not out of the question that things could turn nasty again and the "ugly European" could re-emerge.

Those who have followed some of the recent news coming out of Italy are aware that Western Europeans do have the potential to get really, really brutal again, and I don't mean just at football matches.

People might not expect me to say this because I lean left, but the conservative Sarkozy being in charge of France is probably the only thing keeping France from going in a fascist direction. If Segolene Royal had won the election, not only would there be more banlieue riots but the Front National would be getting REALLY huge and most likely the next French President would be Le Pen. Better the moderate right than out and out fascists any day.

Italy is not in western Europe. You need to understand that the whole mediterranean region (Italy, Spain, Greece, etc) is considered Europe's Mexico and is Southern Europe. And that's really the best approach people should have to it.
Eastern Europe is no more perceived as a "real" part of Europe than South America is perceived as a real part of USA. Its still the americas, but its not the United States. Likewise, for Europeans, Europe is western and northern Europe. These are the places that are clustered together in collaboration, politics, economy, aspirations, and goals.

Immigrants from Eastern or Southern Europe will really - in general - not bring sufficient benefit for the U.S. America needs strong, educated immigrants who can contribute to the economy and the growth of the country.
This country is by and large filled with third world immigrants. Its not helping to improve things.
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,145 posts, read 36,153,836 times
Reputation: 3772
Quote:
Originally Posted by antibes View Post
Italy is not in western Europe. You need to understand that the whole mediterranean region (Italy, Spain, Greece, etc) is considered Europe's Mexico and is Southern Europe. And that's really the best approach people should have to it.
Eastern Europe is no more perceived as a "real" part of Europe than South America is perceived as a real part of USA. Its still the americas, but its not the United States. Likewise, for Europeans, Europe is western and northern Europe. These are the places that are clustered together in collaboration, politics, economy, aspirations, and goals.

Immigrants from Eastern or Southern Europe will really - in general - not bring sufficient benefit for the U.S. America needs strong, educated immigrants who can contribute to the economy and the growth of the country.
This country is by and large filled with third world immigrants. Its not helping to improve things.
60 years ago you may have been correct------------not today.

Italy, Spain, etc. now have much more in common with the UK, Germany, etc. than with Latin America, Africa, etc. Read that affluence, low birthrates. growing respect for law and order, etc.

As for the Eastern Euros----------they are catching up fast and as a group are now light years ahead of the Third World.
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