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Norway it 3 times more expensive than US. A simple watch that's 10k in US is 40k in Norway (from my experience)... that's just hilarious.
Is that salary before or after taxes? If it's before taxes it's a really really small and ridiculous salary... if it's after taxes it's still just a small salary. Also you have to count the fact that Norway pretty much has no jobs (I was looking on some job boards and the offer is a joke).
I don't see how that's bad starting pay for an engineer, and the construction worker (ditch digger) certainly makes a lot more (3-4 times more) in Norway than here in the US, I should know, I did that job and I was offered $40 an hour plus free education in whichever direction I wanted to stay, instead of moving here and marrying my wife.
You don't pay for health insurance, you don't pay more than $250 a year in deductibles and emergency care is fully on par with the US, if you live in the more populated areas. Here in the US I just recently paid $800 for an emergency MRI, and that's with a pretty good health insurance.
There's plenty of jobs around, and unemployment is low, if you prove yourself, you'll also be attractive in your field and can negotiate quite lucrative deals, realize also that working as an engineer, you rarely work the amount of overtime you see some work here, especially at the beginning of the career. (60 hour weeks are more or less unheard of).
What I meant above was that taxes in Norway are not significantly higher than in the USA if you do not count VAT, which is normally added to the cost of living. Other taxes, after deductions run from 0-32 %, with the average person paying 25 %. Only the upper middle class pay 30 %.
Basically, it is either high costs of living or high taxes. If you say both, you've counted VAT twice.
The stats I linked to are PPP, they are adjusted for cost of living.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatsthenews
Whilst healthcare and tuition fees (which some Euro countries do have,albeit lower than in the USA) are an expenditure, not everyone has to pay them, unlike housing, grocery, clothing, utilities etc, so you have to look at those costs too!
You have to wait longer for treatment, family physicians act as gatekeepers so no "self referrals" unless you pay and go to see a specialist privately, shared 6 bedded hospital bays, far fewer staff from nurses to support staff, much less availability of technology and often severe bed shortages. You cannot "demand" and MRI or a certain drug and mammograms don't start until age 65, PAP smears are every 3 years and no routine screening for bowel or prostate cancer.
Actually, even in the UK, waits are shorter than in the US. And preventive medicine is far better, as evidenced by the results. Longer lives, with a greater number of years spent healthy.
You've also listed many poor showings as average -not a game at which the US can win. To put it mildly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatsthenews
Private healthcare in the UK (essentially what you pay for in the USA) is completely unnafordable for most and many of the private hospitals have poor facilities and little or no emergency backup as they don't have ER departments as only do "routine" work.
Not really. I lived in the UK for 10 years and most of my friends there have occasionally used the private system for stuff they didn't want to bother the NHS with. They are certainly massivly cheaper than in the USA, to the level where people fly from the US to be treated privatly in the UK, at one thenth of the cost, or less.
You should be joking.
Europe is decaying, I'm engineer and the wages in my field are 2times more in the U.S.
You will NEVER get the same lifestyle in Europe (when I visit my family in the States, they all have large detached house with 2 SUV and they are not considered as rich ...) in Europe those kind of thinks are only for the richest !!
Look in Netherlands ,Germany,UK, .. they all have to live in those tiny town-houses or in appartments in overcrowed cities.
They have to buy small car because Gaz is 3times more expensive ,socialist government take half of my pay and tax everything (For an US-type SUV, I would have to pay more than 3k€/year in tax in Belgium because gov does not want us to buy big cars ...).
I hate being here and xenophobia does not help, it's so refreshing to be in the States with that unmatched diversity & freedom.
There should be a reason why the US is filled of Europeans when Americans living in Europe are still uncommon.
I'm going to guess that you've never been to Europe. If you had, you would at least have an inkling of how your listing of "big houses, lots of SUVs" as indications of success undermines your own point. If you don't understand that more vacation and shorter hours are more important scoremarkers than several SUVs, you've kindof missed the scoring rules!
And you'd certainly not list the USA as having the most diversity and freedom!
Not to mention the rather...peculiar notion that detached housing are only for the rich.
You'd probably also realize that house size is more affected by how densly populated a country is, than how much people there are earning. Lower wage levels means cheaper builders.
Also, a lot of those pretty, ancient town centres aren't really going to let you build a modern 40-story apartment building, or a row of detached houses. If you want to live in the city center of a 1000 years old city, that often means old apartments. Move outside of the city centres in countries that are not as densly populated as Brooklyn, and you'll find just as spacious housing as in the US.
I'm going to guess that you've never been to Europe. If you had, you would at least have an inkling of how your listing of "big houses, lots of SUVs" as indications of success undermines your own point. If you don't understand that more vacation and shorter hours are more important scoremarkers than several SUVs, you've kindof missed the scoring rules!
And you'd certainly not list the USA as having the most diversity and freedom!
Sorry but I live in Belgium
Yes the US has the most diversity, Western Europe is +90% white when US is only 65%.
I'm here for about 20 years and I've never seen a manager from a minority for instance, in the US there are plenty of them.
People are very friendly in the US, here they are so rude (just look how they drive to understand ).
But Vacation time & Healthcare are better in Europe (I wouldn't say shorter hours as I leave my home at 7am and come back at 7pm ...).
Thus, let's move to Canada (advantages of US without the drawbacks ).
when I visit my family in the States, they all have large detached house with 2 SUV and they are not considered as rich ...)
Actually SUV or Pickups are not necessary in Europe, as public transport and roads are good. Living in Europe I would prefer a luxury Wagon like a BMW 5er compared to a plastic Tahoe by far! Even the Tahoe is fun to drive, its interior and quality can not be compared to Mercedes, BMW, Audi... size does not always matter... same with houses.
How about crime and poverty? I like the american kind of living but I am always shocked by the crime rates and seeing all those poor homeless people in the cities...
How about crime and poverty? I like the american kind of living but I am always shocked by the crime rates and seeing all those poor homeless people in the cities...
You do not read the local paper, do you? I have the same feeling just the other way around:>(
True and very sad...even though I have never seen more homeless people than in San Francisco and Chicago. I do read lots of newspaper, and the crime rate is much higher in the U.S....
I'm not saying Europe has no problems, I just wanted to explain that living in the USA has disadvantages, too. It's not the land of milk and honey like some people think.
If you think you get higher wages than anywhere else, without hard work and without compromises on vacation, health care system, crime etc. you'll come back after a while, crying for home. It is all dependend on how you PERSONALLY define life quality. For some people it's a large house and SUV, for other people is safety, vacation... whatever.
Last edited by Douglas Dakota; 04-21-2011 at 07:58 AM..
True and very sad...even though I have never seen more homeless people than in San Francisco and Chicago. I do read lots of newspaper, and the crime rate is much higher in the U.S....
I'm not saying Europe has no problems, I just wanted to explain that living in the USA has disadvantages, too. It's not the land of milk and honey like some people think.
If you think you get higher wages than anywhere else, without hard work and without compromises on vacation, health care system, crime etc. you'll come back after a while, crying for home. It is all dependend on how you PERSONALLY define life quality. For some people it's a large house and SUV, for other people is safety, vacation... whatever.
I don't know if crime is higher in US! The westerners believe that Eastern Europeans are all criminals and poor... and the truth is that Eastern Europe has lower crime rate that Western Europe. I wasn't afraid to go anywhere at any hour in US (Pittsburgh) and I wasn't afraid to go anywhere at any hour in Eastern Europe (Brasov, RO)... yet I didn't had the guts to go anywhere at any hour in Paris or London (especially in London). Crime is relative... usually the crime is in some "crime pockets" and most people don't interfere with it!
What I meant above was that taxes in Norway are not significantly higher than in the USA if you do not count VAT, which is normally added to the cost of living. Other taxes, after deductions run from 0-32 %, with the average person paying 25 %. Only the upper middle class pay 30 %.
Basically, it is either high costs of living or high taxes. If you say both, you've counted VAT twice.
The stats I linked to are PPP, they are adjusted for cost of living.
But they're quite old
Actually, even in the UK, waits are shorter than in the US.
I really don't think so-I worked in the NHS for 27 years!
And preventive medicine is far better, as evidenced by the results. Longer lives, with a greater number of years spent healthy.
It's impossible to compare the US with the UK re disease management as the US has a much higher hispanic and black population and therefore different health profiles.
You've also listed many poor showings as average -not a game at which the US can win. To put it mildly.
Don't understand this
Not really. I lived in the UK for 10 years and most of my friends there have occasionally used the private system for stuff they didn't want to bother the NHS with. They are certainly massivly cheaper than in the USA, to the level where people fly from the US to be treated privatly in the UK, at one thenth of the cost, or less. But the private hospitals will only treat routine things, often have no back up if things go pear shaped. We used to do "straight forward" coronary artery bypass grafts at a local private hospital.Fine, until one night things were't very "straight forward" when the pt bled into his chest and there was no surgical team there to crack his chest open. Another private (BUPA) hospital bought new cardiac arrest trolleys and they wouldn't fit through the doors into the private rooms! Many of the nursing staff are PRN and only there because it's a cushy number and are on the lowest pay band. It is going to be cheaper with no 24/7 services to pay for, plus nurses (the largest group of professionals in healthcare) are MUCH cheaper in the UK. You get what you pay for basically!
It slould be enough to look at the US health care costs to realize that the US cannot compete on cost!
Maybe the UK is better if you're earning a high enough salary that you can afford a good standard of living and ignore all the C--P!
I just know what it costs here for gas, eating out ,recreation etc and it's far cheaper than the UK , plus tax system is more family friendly than the UK.
Plus we can go from A to B without having to contend with "parents" with screaming kids and groups of yobbish teenagers and at the end of the day come home to peace and privacy.
I'm going to guess that you've never been to Europe. If you had, you would at least have an inkling of how your listing of "big houses, lots of SUVs" as indications of success undermines your own point. If you don't understand that more vacation and shorter hours are more important scoremarkers than several SUVs, you've kindof missed the scoring rules!
And you'd certainly not list the USA as having the most diversity and freedom!
You'd probably also realize that house size is more affected by how densly populated a country is, than how much people there are earning. Lower wage levels means cheaper builders.
Also, a lot of those pretty, ancient town centres aren't really going to let you build a modern 40-story apartment building, or a row of detached houses. If you want to live in the city center of a 1000 years old city, that often means old apartments. Move outside of the city centres in countries that are not as densly populated as Brooklyn, and you'll find just as spacious housing as in the US.
It's not a peculiar notion at all in the UK.
In the South east average price for a detatched house varies from 330,000 to almost 700,000 GBP depending on county.
Even in the North it's between 200,000 GBP (in the least desirable areas) up to 300 GBP
And for those "average"prices they will squeeze 5 bedrooms into les than 2,000 sq ft and the lot size will be around 0.15 acre.
Why do you think they never talk about sq ftage when marketing homes?
It's completely wrong to think there is any comparison between US/UK house sizes. Many homes are terraced and semi detached and older (smaller).
Almost everyone who can afford it wants to get out of the burbs into the "yuppy country" for a little more space, less traffic and better schools.
Prices in "rural" areas such as Weardale, Cornwall, Devon, North Yorkshire have skyrocketed and locals are priced out of the market.
Land costs are the biggest factor in house prices in the UK.
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For some people it's a large house and SUV, for other people is safety, vacation... whatever.
