Teachers: Basic Question re Teaching Requirements (Allentown: credit, attorney, school district)

[Happy2bHere]

I currently have a J.D. (law degree) and a B.A. in philosophy. I am a licensed attorney who left private practice to work in the public sector, but still I am unhappy working in the law. I am very interested in changing careers, and have my eye on teaching english at the junior high level as a possibility.

I have read all of the horror stories about finding a teaching job in PA, but my question is even more fundamental.

What do I need to do education-wise to even be qualified to teach at that level? I understand that there are PRAXIS exams and certification requirements, but do I need to get another degree as well?

Thanks for the input from any and all teachers out there!

[toobusytoday]

I'm sure you have been to this website: http://www.teaching.state.pa.us/teaching/cwp/view.asp?a=12&Q=108769&teachingNav=|93|87|
I admit, it's a fairly confusing website and does not say clearly what is needed to teach in PA if you do not have an education degree. If I were you, I would call up the administration building of the school district you live in and just ask them. Many colleges in the Lehigh Valley have teacher certification programs. I know you can take the PPST (the basic praxis tests) at a testing center in Allentown on-line. There are at least two more praxis tests after that....

If you have absolutely no teaching experience, I would suggest that you try substitute teaching first. That's something most people can do with a bachelors degree.

Our kids need people that really want to teach, not people that are just choosing it because they can't decide what else to do. I know that sounds harsh but as a parent of a newly minted teacher that has known she's wanted to teach since she was a young girl, and also the parent whose kids have had lousy teachers, I really, really want teachers that are choosing to teach with the best intentions and are good at it. I hope that is you.

[Lehigh Valley Native]

Originally Posted by toobusytoday

and also the parent whose kids have had lousy teachers

Don't get me started on lousy teachers who are tenured. To make matters worse, teachers do not receive performance reviews based on how well they do in the classroom.

[toobusytoday]

Agreed. I used to attend school board meetings on a regular basis and at one meeting I knew a math teacher of my daughters was up for tenure. Normally this is a rubber stamp on the school boards part since the Principals at the building have already given it a green light. My daughter had told me how bad of a teacher this guy was so before the meeting I talked to a friend on the school board and told her exactly what my daughter said. Not that he was a bad person or a screamer, but that he was a very poor teacher. My friend had heard the same things and had already decided to see if she could stop the tenure approval. Guess what? She couldn't. She told me later that because no parents had come forward to complain and his in the classroom visits were fine, they had to agree to tenure. Lesson learned, if your kids have lousy new teachers - band together with other parents and complain. I was able to have my second child avoid this teacher and thankfully, he is no longer teaching but I know other kids that were not so lucky.

[theshan]

Originally Posted by Happy2bHere

I currently have a J.D. (law degree) and a B.A. in philosophy. I am a licensed attorney who left private practice to work in the public sector, but still I am unhappy working in the law. I am very interested in changing careers, and have my eye on teaching english at the junior high level as a possibility.

I have read all of the horror stories about finding a teaching job in PA, but my question is even more fundamental.

What do I need to do education-wise to even be qualified to teach at that level? I understand that there are PRAXIS exams and certification requirements, but do I need to get another degree as well?

Thanks for the input from any and all teachers out there!

Look into intern certificates. You take 15 credits then can start teaching and see if you want to pursue it for the full degree.

[endersshadow]

Originally Posted by toobusytoday

Lesson learned, if your kids have lousy new teachers - band together with other parents and complain.

That's a little harsh, don't you think? Currently, I reside in MD and I'm going to attain my BA in Elem. Edu with a dual certification in Spec. Edu. in a year and a half.

I'll give a perspective from a prospective teacher. Now, from what I hear, PA is will off with teachers and it's very competitive, which is great for parents and students. They will get the best teachers available. Though, many parts of MD are lacking good, well-qualified teachers. People shouldn't be trying to scare away young and/or new teachers. I certainly agree that each teacher should be assessed before gaining tenure but young/new teachers are... well, young/new. They will make mistakes... Hell, they'll make lots of mistakes and some students will pay as a result. Though, people will get better with experience but they have to make those initial mistakes to gain that experience that makes them a better teacher.

Of course, I'm not speaking on behalf of all young/new teachers. Some just shouldn't be in the profession. As you said, don't be in the business because you didn't know what else to do. But let's be honest... most people that enter this career as their first profession are doing it because they love kids. They certainly aren't doing it for the money nor the prestige. Young/new teachers generally have good intentions and being run out of something they love is pretty harsh.

[toobusytoday]

I am not talking about a student teacher or someone in their first year. To get tenure you have to teach for three years in the same school district. This guy was teaching High School math - pre-calc or statistics (I can't remember)- and when my daughter told him that she did not understand how to do a certain problem, he could not explain it any other way. He had already stumbled through two years of teaching plus student teaching and perhaps another district before ours. My daughter is a new teacher and he was actually one of the reasons she decided to teach, because she wanted to be one of the good teachers.

I also see the hiring and tenure problem on the administrations part. Science and math teachers are hard to come by in the secondary level. At a parents meeting, the Principal at my son's HS told us that she had less then a dozen qualified teachers apply for open math positions. How do you tell how good a teacher is? Kids will tell their parents how bad a teacher is and we take that with a grain of salt and don't talk to the administration unless it's something huge and obvious. Kids ALWAYS blame bad grades on something other then themselves. But, sometimes they are right and when they have a bad teacher, it is really important to let someone in authority know. Several parents and I had casually talked about how our kids said this guy was a bad teacher but not one of us told anyone in authority.

And just to let you know how objective I am, I actually sat on a committee a year or so later with this guy and we got along very well. Really nice person but NOT a good math teacher.

[endersshadow]

Originally Posted by toobusytoday

I am not talking about a student teacher or someone in their first year. To get tenure you have to teach for three years in the same school district. This guy was teaching High School math - pre-calc or statistics (I can't remember)- and when my daughter told him that she did not understand how to do a certain problem, he could not explain it any other way. He had already stumbled through two years of teaching plus student teaching and perhaps another district before ours. My daughter is a new teacher and he was actually one of the reasons she decided to teach, because she wanted to be one of the good teachers.

I also see the hiring and tenure problem on the administrations part. Science and math teachers are hard to come by in the secondary level. At a parents meeting, the Principal at my son's HS told us that she had less then a dozen qualified teachers apply for open math positions. How do you tell how good a teacher is? Kids will tell their parents how bad a teacher is and we take that with a grain of salt and don't talk to the administration unless it's something huge and obvious. Kids ALWAYS blame bad grades on something other then themselves. But, sometimes they are right and when they have a bad teacher, it is really important to let someone in authority know. Several parents and I had casually talked about how our kids said this guy was a bad teacher but not one of us told anyone in authority.

And just to let you know how objective I am, I actually sat on a committee a year or so later with this guy and we got along very well. Really nice person but NOT a good math teacher.

Thanks for the info about needing to be in the district for 3 years before getting tenure (at least for your area). We learn things in college but not everything's practical . I actually thought teachers gained tenure after their first or second year.

Though, I believe that's where I was confused. You mentioned that people should band together and, essentially, prevent lousy new teachers from attaining tenure. I figured you meant teachers that didn't perform well in their first year of teaching.

It is funny that you brought up that example of your daughter's math teacher being a bad teacher. I had a very similar situation with a math professor. I asked him what a (math) problem was asking me to do and he gave an attempt to explain it. I clarified that I understood that part of the problem but not the other. He just shrugged his shoulders and walked away from me. Hahah, I hated that guy. Complete bias there.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification on the matter.

EDIT: To go along with the original post of the thread creator... I'm going to be certified to teach in MD. I plan on living in some part of MD though this PA area intrigues me. I've heard that I'd have to be re-certified to teach in another state. Does anyone know if I become certified by taking some kind of exam (I'll have already taken and passed the Praxis') or if it's as simple as registering?

[theshan]

Originally Posted by endersshadow

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EDIT: To go along with the original post of the thread creator... I'm going to be certified to teach in MD. I plan on living in some part of MD though this PA area intrigues me. I've heard that I'd have to be re-certified to teach in another state. Does anyone know if I become certified by taking some kind of exam (I'll have already taken and passed the Praxis') or if it's as simple as registering?

You still need to fill out the paperwork with PA and meet PA's Praxis requirements, even if you have the MD certification. And pay the fee . . . there's always a fee.

[endersshadow]

Originally Posted by theshan

You still need to fill out the paperwork with PA and meet PA's Praxis requirements, even if you have the MD certification. And pay the fee . . . there's always a fee.

Thanks for the info. Fees and paperwork are not much of a hassle compared to studying for some kind of exam. Just to take the praxis (in it's entirety) costs over a hundred if I remember correctly.