Why so many homes for sale? (Bethlehem, York: property taxes, housing, income)

[Yac]

Guys, please keep the discussion civil.
Yac.

[Coastalminded]

yes a post was deleted but it was by me, like I said I am outta here. Going to Florida for 12 days to visit a buisness partner. We have a large investment that needs attention, it is doing very well. In fact, most of our clients are snowbirds from PA/NJ/NY....82% of them statistically. These are clients, not potential investors so I am happy about this.

Look, I have my own views on the LV, nothing will change that. And I must disagree with your comment on things have to change or they are "not good".

But, you have your right to your own opinion as well and I understand what you are getting at, believe me.

The biggest issue I have with transplants is when many get here, they demand change. They get to every meeting at each Borough and Township in large numbers and have their agendas heard by a council. I myself was on the board as a council member and have heard a laundry list of complaints from transplants and you know what? Those same people who yelled the loudest have also long ago sold and moved out. That is a fact. They ruined their own welcome and caused their own problems as natives here are tough as hell when it comes to change.

I agree with your other statements on many things but not about that things must always change. Of course change is good but when forced change comes, we found collectively that no one ended up being satisfied anyways because the route used to get there was very , very polarizing in a not so good way. People were threatened bodiily harm when they moved here! A dead deer was thrown into a residents pool because they constantly complained about issues with open space when they moved here-you would think it would be the opposite.

Well, good luck to everyone. Just know that the people born and raised here are a very balanced and weathered bunch. Maybe a bit harsh for some but that wil never change. The older some folks get the more bitter they are living here. I myself am getting out, so while I amy complain, I am doing something to affect change, for myself. And honestly, God as my witness, I am in need of a move out of here for many reasons. My MAIN reason has nothing at all to do with transplants in any way whatsoever. I myself, while on council, represented many transplants and stood with them side by side as a council member and as a citizen. Not all chnge is bad but everyone can not always get what they want either.

Railroads? You talked of passenger service. I was an Engineer for 11 years with a freight railroad here out of Allentown. The Coalition for Passenger Rail Service in the Lehigh Valley was born from myself and my partners own work. Let me just tell you, when it comes to passenger service in the LV, look around . Rails-to Trails has taken away most of the Right of Way that the RR's owned or leased. You cannot add trackage anywhere in the Valley. The only way you will see an effective passenger system materialize is by utilizing existing freight rails.....mixing freight with passenger service on the same tracks. It can be done, sure. It will be hectic at best to keep a Timetable. The rail network would need major upgrades to increase speed limits for passenger service to be competitive. People are in love with their cars in the LV, and most places. Look at past articles about the subject, you will see my name mentioned many, many times. You do not know me and will not but I can speak about rail service for hours on end.

there are only 2 options for a rail line that would have any return on investment. Allentown to Quakertown/Landsdale, which would require huge amounts of money to get it going again even though the right of way is in place; this would reduce traffic on the 309 corridor.

The other route we worked on closely with Conrail and Norfolk Southern was a trachage rights agreement with them for the use of the Lehigh Line which terminates in Newark and originates up around Scranton, passing through Bethlehem, Allentown etc., along its route. That is existing trackage.....if you want to fight for passenger rail service focus on these 2 corridors as they are what is possible. And being a union member of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers for a long time, I can tell you that from our studies we done using an outside firm, there just is not enough people that are interested/ridership would not sustain the costs, period. People are in love with their automobiles and the freedom they have. Think Amtrak. Always , always on the brink of collapse. A LV passenger line would be no different according to most every study done on this subject. an I-78 route would illeviate congestion and the commute to NJ/NY but it would always be broke. It is a novel idea, build it and people will come, but in fiscal terms it derailed itself with every study I was a part of and I was a HUGE advocate for it.

So in summary, you can only bang your head off the wall so many times before you throw in the towel and hope another new group will pick up where we left off. Its that simple. We started the movement, always positive, always attending any and every meeting of significance, but in the end it was always negative findings in terms of dollars and ridership numbers. Do you have any idea what it costs to build railroad today, or even upgrade it? Millions a mile. And rolling stock, stations, maintenance and ridership numbers were all negative when comared.

This area, it has huge potential. One day it will materialize when the proper people hold the positions in government and make it happen. I'm not waiting around for that to happen. I still own here, 2 properties that are worth 4 times what I paid for them and will always call the LV home. But it is time for a change for my family and myself and it is an exciting future ahead.

[braylee]

I think there are a lot of homes for sale because a lot of people are downsizing. I think with the way mortgages were being handed out a few years ago, people got in over their heads and need to downgrade to something more affordable.

It is very expensive to live in this area. The traffic is HORRIBLE. Not for me. But I think it IS for a lot of people a great place to live. I am moving out of state, to a more reasonable priced area, where we can live with no mortgage and no traffic lights. So the reason we are leaving is basically is because it is too expensive.

[toobusytoday]

Braylee, Where do you live? Here in the Lehigh Valley? Because the traffic up this way is 10 times better then where we moved from in Delaware county. I think that kind of stuff is all very relative. If you drive route 78 or 22 every day or try to get to a big city then your perception might be that it's bad. For me, I have one light and I'm at work in ten minutes. My husband has a route that avoids all lights and it takes him 15 minutes.

[roatchs]

IMHO -- The LV has had decades to learn to develop new and innovative ways to bring in both capital and commerce; and has experienced far more directly devastating times, economically, than our country is now within.

The "flippers and developers" benefiting at 300-400% profits had to stop though, but, such profiteering was made possible for years by unchecked delusion and the gluttony of both political and economic excess; making it impossible for property owners not to sell off, but then, farm foreclosures are old news.

And now, perhaps the pendulum is re-adjusting, and the municipalities from Easton to Hamburg can breath, adjust, and handle the current more manageable growth which is inevitable everywhere the sun rises.

And since we have, finally after a year on the market, just, sold we can now buy something actually affordable in the LV.... I won't tell you where, but, I will tell you it won't be new, a row-home, and we won't pay over $200K....

[MamaBee]

Hmmm, I'm seriously looking into moving outside of Nazareth in a year or two. Part of me is laughing inside when I hear that it's "expensive" to live there. We would save thousands of dollars a year in property taxes and income taxes alone by moving. Couple that with extremely low home values (i.e. lower mortage) seems like a good idea to me. Plus, near the mountains for hiking...less people...I'm planning on home schooling my daughter so the district doesn't matter.

There are, however, a lot of homes for sale. I'm hoping that it is just because people overextended themselves financially and not because the area is getting bad.

Coastal; I know what you mean. I dated someone outside of Bethlehem and he told me all about how the area has gotten depressed and not too great for higher paying jobs since Steel left. Look on the brightside...NJ jobs are a hop-skip-and jump away!

[toobusytoday]

Actually, the unemployment rate in the Lehigh Valley is only 4.1% Valley enjoying employment boom -- themorningcall.com. We moved here after Bethlehem Steel left and that was 10 years ago. If those people haven't found new jobs since then then they're in big trouble....

[ScranBarre]

Here's an interesting article from the Morning Call a few days ago:
Existing home sales bump up, but big picture is bleak -- themorningcall.com

"Expensive" is all relative. According to this article the median home sales price in the Lehigh Valley of $221,000 was higher than the national average of $210,200. A decade ago housing was much more affordable in the Lehigh Valley than it is today, and you can blame this on short-term speculators. Interestingly enough though the Lehigh Valley ranked lower than both Philadelphia and Scranton in terms of the number of foreclosures. I'm not at alll surprised to see my city is up on the list quite a bit given the number of folks who are purchasing $400,000 suburban McMansions left and right while earning a fraction of the $133,000 or so that would be needed to comfortaly afford it using the general rule of thumb that the price of the home you purchase should not exceed three times your annual household income.

I personally consider the Lehigh Valley "expensive" in relation to the wages offered there. My uncle and his partner live in Fountain Hill. She commutes to Reading. He commutes to Lower Bucks County. The wages in the Lehigh Valley simply have not risen rapidly enough to compensate for the explosive increase in home prices. We're seeing this in Monroe County now as well where those seeking to purchase their first home but do not want to commute to NJ or NYC are having an increasingly difficult time given the low local wages. Scranton/Wilkes-Barre/Hazleton is the next on the chopping block; I'm just hoping I have the resources available to purchase my first home in Scranton before prices shoot through the roof the way they did in the Lehigh Valley and Poconos.

[MamaBee]

Originally Posted by toobusytoday

I certainly am not pro development but there is legally no remedy to stop development if a property is zoned correctly and it passes perk tests. There is no "office" that oversees slowing down development. In my township, the majority of the supervisors are anti-development but they cannot do anything but make sure that builders are following the letter of the law.

A township can actually change the masterplan or vote in an ordinance that sets a minimum requirement for lot size which will stop a lot of overdevelopment.

[markas214]

I've lived here 47 years. I lived and visited other states as well so while I'm biased I do have more than my life in Bethlehem as reference. I see the area exactly the oposite of Coastal. With the exception of Allentown the area has vastly improved with the demise of the heavy manufacturing industries, sewing mills and factories. I worked in a sewing mill out of high school. Low wages for those women. Piece rate. I worked at a steel fabricator. Dirty and dangerous. Look at Bethlehem today and what it was like 40 years ago. It has gone from a small and isolated town to a very beautiful place to spend an afternoon. Coffee shops, bistros, art galeries and an extrordinary historic district.