Location help: Lehigh Valley V. Bucks County (Macungie: homes, school)

[toobusytoday]

Originally Posted by MrsFantastico

Yes when I look on sites like Realtor.com and Zillow they have the taxes listed on the MLS but now I am concerned as to whether or not that number includes the schools. Sadly though even if those numbers doubled due to the school tax not being included it would still be much less than we pay here for what you get.

I really appreciate your help! From Bucks to Lehigh and now Monroe, I think we may focus now on Monroe due to the incredible affordability which takes a lot of the sting out of the commute.

Something about Monroe county rings a bell. Ask in the NEPA forum about taxes there and read this thread: Seniors and property tax Monroe

I hope you find just what you are looking for!

[MrsFantastico]

Wow! Thank you! Does that mean that the taxes in Lehigh Valley and North hampton are more reasonable and stable?

[toobusytoday]

In Pennsylvania, every district decides how much to raise taxes and depending on the school board and what's going on in the district, taxes can jump every year or stay the same. Somehow they never go down. My school district, Southern Lehigh, has not raised taxes the last few years even though they have built a new school a few years ago and are in the process of replacing an elementary school. Which is to say that I can't make a blanket statement about Lehigh County schools. I only pointed out Monroe county schools because that's how that poster called them out. As you've seen on your NEPA thread, there are good districts and not-so-good districts in the same area. This site is a good place to compare your schools. Use the High Schools for comparison, not the K-8 schools. Welcome to PA School Performance Profile I don't think scores are the be-all, end-all, but you can throw out very low performing districts this way.

[MrsFantastico]

Thank you toobusy, that's very good advice to judge based on the high schools!

[Matt_PSU]

I agree wholeheartedly with toobusy's advice on judging by the high schools, not by one or two elementary schools. Your child will eventually end up at the high school and that is where the big problems can happen. Even Allentown, the district ranked 500 out of 501 in PA, has one or two very good elementary schools.

As for taxes, it varies wildly by school and also by township/borough/city. For example, I live in Lower Macungie township. I only pay $150/year in property tax to Lower Mac. Our township makes enough on the 1% income tax that we don't have to charge much property tax at all. However if my house was in Forks Township I'd pay like $4000 just in township property taxes. That would be on top of the $3000 in school tax and $1000 in county tax. There is a law that says that school taxes aren't supposed to go up more than about 3% per year (without holding a referendum vote)... but there are so many ways around that law that it is effectively worthless. If you want municipalities that have low overall taxes, choose a township like North Whitehall that does not have its own police force, and does not charge a high school property tax. Avoid Forks township and others like it that charge huge municipal taxes on top of expensive school taxes.

When comparing Monroe AKA the Poconos, they have had more growth than us, and they've seen higher tax increases in many cases. They are not "full" and built out, like some parts of the LV. However they should still be cheaper overall. Most of those areas rely on state troopers so they have lower cost structures, and their teachers and other workers get paid less. I know the taxes on our cabin shot up quite a bit up there. However I would argue that none of the Monroe county schools can really compete with the LV schools. I would stick with Pleasant Valley if you chose Monroe.

[MrsFantastico]

I have noticed from having the two threads, one in this forum and one in Northeastern that this one seemed to be more pleasant. I'm wondering if that is anyway indicative of the kind of energy you actually come across in these places?

[toobusytoday]

I really don't know. We never looked in that area because my husband works in Bucks county and we moved from Southeastern PA. I know I like where we live and would choose it again in a heartbeat!

[johnp292]

Originally Posted by MrsFantastico

I have noticed from having the two threads, one in this forum and one in Northeastern that this one seemed to be more pleasant. I'm wondering if that is anyway indicative of the kind of energy you actually come across in these places?

Having myself lived in both the Poconos and the Lehigh Valley, I can say that, in my opinion, LV is a more pleasant area overall. With the exception of A-B-E (Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton) the Lehigh Valley is more like a nice suburban or semi-rural to rural area, whereas the Poconos are a one time vacation/weekend area that has become a NYC/NNJ bedroom community nightmare with a lot of bad history behind it, although it sounds like it's improving. The schools and services in the Lehigh Valley are infinately better than anything you'll find in Monroe or Pike counties.

With that said, I think for the most part, the folks posting in your thread in the NEPA forum are just trying to give you honest advice based on our experiences there, even if that advice isn't what you were hoping to hear.

If I were to move back to PA some day, I wouldn't hesitate to move back to Lehigh, while I will never again live in the Poconos.

I'll caution you again, though, that you really need to understand the toll the commute will take. Getting to NYC from 78 might be a little better than it is from 80, but not a whole lot. And when you start talking about the towns that are farther away from the interstates, where you'll be more rural, you're adding even more time to the travel, especially in the winter. But if you're set on PA, my two cents worth says look to Lehigh and avoid the Poconos.

[Matt_PSU]

Originally Posted by MrsFantastico

I have noticed from having the two threads, one in this forum and one in Northeastern that this one seemed to be more pleasant. I'm wondering if that is anyway indicative of the kind of energy you actually come across in these places?

I've met great people from NEPA. However some of those communities are very set in their ways, culturally. They have also been (and this is what they say) "invaded", by NY/NJ folks and they are quite upset about it up there. There are inherent issues with the mixing of those groups, like crime, higher taxes, schools going downhill, traffic in rural areas, etc. Many people left the NYC boroughs thinking that they were getting their kids away from the problems of the city, but in reality they were importing those problems to the Poconos. My family has a Pocono cabin on a lake and the change has amazing. We had a drug dealer in the cabin next door who eventually got busted... and that was 15 years ago. Furthermore, there are racism issues up there, the farther you go towards the coal belt and S/WB. I will get flak for posting that, but it's true. I've heard them talk. Then you have the economic issues, and lack of jobs. So in short, excuse them for not being welcoming in a forum. I will probably get flagged by the mods, but I know what I'm talking about.

The Lehigh Valley also has accepted quite a bit of NY/NJ transplants, but the scene is different. We had more established white collar jobs, better schools, better infrastructure, good medical care, and could withstand the growth (far) better. The people that moved here bringing crime and problems tended to choose Allentown, south Bethlehem, or Easton, not the surrounding areas, because they were much more affordable. So it's easier to avoid those areas and the people that cause problems. In the Poconos there are a few high schools and the issues are harder to ignore.

[Gettingouttahere]

Matt is right. It might seem the areas (LV vs Poconos) are the same size, but there are fewer schools & districts in the Poconos and the problems seemed to concentrate in only a couple of districts, exacerbating them. There are similar problems in LV areas, but it's a more diluted issue. LV has three cities and quite a few bigger towns besides that. Poconos have Stroudsburg/Eburg and that's about it.

And yes, there are almost no white-collar jobs in the Poconos, apart from your basic county seat work force/education and Sanofi. So the commuting is almost a requirement, which leads to all kinds of other stresses, which we have painstakingly detailed for you.

There was also slower development in the LV, and the infrastructure kept up. That has not been the case in the Poconos. Not enough roads; no upkeep to speak of (we are in the same PennDOT district as the LV, and we always feel like we're the last to get repaving or improvements - the money and the power is in the LV), schools were first bulging at the seams and now are half vacant, but the taxes kept going up; poor municipal services; etc etc.

I agree with Matt, however: LV has a better future and it's where I'd put the eggs in my basket, if I had my druthers. (I don't, though, so I try to make the best of it.)