PA/LV cities & long-term gang/drugs forecast (Allentown, Reading: fit in, rental)

[Taurean]

Hi all,

I know this topic has generally been discussed ad nauseum, but I'm looking for some HONEST impressions of where some areas in the LV and greater are going over the next 10 years with respect to gang activity and drug trafficking.

Having relatives around Reading and having traveled around the LV quite a bit, I've seen some areas that have obviously been invaded and driven into the ground due to this blight.

Reading and Allentown are absolutely disgraceful. For the life of me I can't tell exactly where Bethlehem is headed; there seem to be diverging opinions.

I hear similar stories about places like downtown Lancaster (I read that hardly anyone speaks English there anymore--??), Williamsport, Harrisburg, Scranton, the Poconos, etc.

Are politicians, police and state government doing ANYTHING to combat the problems in the areas that have them? I can't believe more native Pennsylvanians don't express outrage that some once-beautiful, historical areas in their state have been ruined by exported gangs and drug trading.

I absolutely detest this gang/drug-culture stuff that seems to be infesting everywhere, especially when it contaminates beautiful small towns and rural areas. I'm looking to move somewhere in PA, but I want no part of this sickness and I long for the days when it wasn't so prevalent.

So back to the original question: Where are the cities of PA that suffer from these issues headed over the next 10 years realistically and honestly? And what about the areas that currently seem all right but show signs of this activity (i.e. Bethlehem)?

Thanks a lot.

[PA.Dutchman]

You summed it up perfectly and it breaks my heart too!!

I took a Citizens Police Academy course at the Lehigh Co. Center this past fall and winter.

The State Police Task Force taught us about Gangs and which ones are in Allentown and those who come into Allentown from Berk's Co.

The officer showed us Gang Signals with his hands. He told us they are now recruiting children in the Elementary Schools or their own children. They teach them the hand signals. If we were to see a child doing the signals we need to be concerned.

Although a child might pick it up from another child or on TV.

The next day in Second Grade a child whose second language was English was showing another boy had to do these very hand signals we had learned the night before. I mentioned this to the teacher, but before anything could really be done the family left Allentown, very quickly.

The authorities may have wanted a family member and then they leave at night. My wife and I have seen the moving vans at night. They pack up and leave during the night.

Yes you summed it up perfectly. The newcomers don't understand because they don't and will never know how wonderful it was to grow up in PA until 20 years ago.

Mayor Daddona use to go to New York and encourage these people to relocate here. He wanted the Federal money and they wanted the freebies.

[Stavs]

This is why I am moving to Forks and looking for a job in Jersey. I wont have to deal with them. Hell, you cant even go shopping anywhere without running into packs of thugs and thug wannabes.

[mwruckman]

People need to understand why Reading, Allentown and dozens of other small PA cities are failing. It is not Latinos or blacks, it is what is missing from these communities. Reading no langer has Dana Corp., the Western Electric plant, Numerous textile mills etc. Reading's biggest employer is the Reading Hospital and Boscov's . Allentown lost Mack Truck and how many jobs were at the Bethleham Steel Works and the Coke plant in Hellertown. Its no wonder these towns are run down and chock full of unemployed. It is the collective fault of us all that Reading, Allentown and numerous otherplaces are the way they are today. Every time we buy a foreign car or some made in China crap from WalMart we are putting a little more dirt on the grave and erasing the oportunities for some poor joe to make an honest living. We've made our beds now sleep in them.

[Phish Head]

Please, let's not be naive and ignore the racial component. There are plenty of areas in West Virginia, Maine, Vermont, and even central PA that have sky high unemployment, poverty, and no crime at all. You can't blame it all on being poor, or having no industry.

[gtdnpublic]

How dare we take care of our families by purchasing reasonably priced goods! How dare those Chinese work hard to make a modest living! They should be ashamed! It couldn't possibly be the fault of the American producers' failure to decrease their overhead or adapt to a changing economic environment. No, it's always the fault of the consumer, so long as I'm not the one consuming.

While I may not agree with mwruckman's rhetoric, I must agree with his point. Jobs are the missing link! We have public schools to keep children out of trouble during the hours of 7 to 3, but when they drop out or graduate with no potential for higher education what are they to do? When the steel and textile base of the Valley started to slow, area leaders and corporate bigwigs failed to see that the future lay within the financial and technology sectors. Instead of replacing the industries and encouraging large-scale entrepreneurship, the leaders were content to assume that American products would always be the class of the world. Why go to school when you can work in a factory? (Go to East Asia today. Ask someone in their teens or twenties that last question -- you will get the most confused look you have ever seen.)

Back to the topic, gangs provide a social support group that fills in the gap that co-workers or college buddies would normally fill. The drug trade provides an entrepreneurial opportunity for young men who lack the access to the resources that would allow them to invest in a legitimate business. As far as I am concerned, the gang/drug culture is the result of a lack of opportunities for young men, usually borne into ethnic families who emphasize a culture of macho masculinity.

To your question of is the government doing anything, I would say they are tackling this as a law enforcement issue as best they can. However, since the real problem is jobs, that is why you are seeing the mixed results. Bethlehem has recently invested in an entertainment-style industry and reputation, thus, Bethlehem is creating jobs, which, if we follow standard economic logic, will create more income across the area. (Also note that the casino also requires more law enforcement, which also scares the drug/gang culture out of the area.)

Your comment on the historical parts of the state being destroyed by gangs might be backwards. The historical parts of the areas have been destroyed by slumlords, who, in turn, invite in the gangs. It is a simple flow chart: Jobs disappear -> lower demand for housing -> lower property value -> less incentive to take care of property -> underemployed move in to take advantage of cheap rental rates -> underemployed supplement their income with drug trade. Usually a place is ruined before the gangs even get there.

Where are they headed? I am optimistic that Bethlehem can come out of this pretty clean. If a few more major corporations move headquarters, warehouses, or plants here, that will help the area as well. However, the geographic position of the area means that drugs will filter through the Lehigh Valley no matter what. The depressed property market in the center of the cities is unlikely to get better without government or non-profit intervention, because there is still plenty of land for new developers to build upon outside the cities.

Summary: Jobs and higher property value drive away crime. If the cities can develop industry and rehabilitate housing, you will see a noted decrease in gang presence.

[gtdnpublic]

Originally Posted by Phish Head

Please, let's not be naive and ignore the racial component. There are plenty of areas in West Virginia, Maine, Vermont, and even central PA that have sky high unemployment, poverty, and no crime at all. You can't blame it all on being poor, or having no industry.

Yes, it would be difficult for a white middle-aged woman in Podunk to join MS-13.

Rural areas don't have lots of cheap rental units that encourage the importing of gangs. Rural people, too, find it easier to form friendly bonds within their small communities, even if they are generally underemployed. That has nothing to do with race, just the simpler lifestyle.

I will assume you think I am wrong or missing something. So might I ask, what exactly is the cultural, genetic, or social cause of certain ethnic groups being more inclined towards gangs and the drug trade if it is not the lack of access to resources?

[Phish Head]

Originally Posted by gtdnpublic

Yes, it would be difficult for a white middle-aged woman in Podunk to join MS-13.

Rural areas don't have lots of cheap rental units that encourage the importing of gangs. Rural people, too, find it easier to form friendly bonds within their small communities, even if they are generally underemployed. That has nothing to do with race, just the simpler lifestyle.

I will assume you think I am wrong or missing something. So might I ask, what exactly is the cultural, genetic, or social cause of certain ethnic groups being more inclined towards gangs and the drug trade if it is not the lack of access to resources?

My answer would be lack of a family structure. Gangs provide a element of family that many ethnic kids don't have. Socially, many schools in urban areas drill "diversity" into the kids heads- basically "whitey is bad, whitey is evil, down with whitey". It only serves to divide people. I have other thoughts but I won't post them here.

[PA.Dutchman]

Much of it is they feel they are entitled to what the rest of our society worked for all our lives. The Government build those new homes on Hanover Acres. The first woman to receive one could not say Thank you in English. She got a new home and appliances when the rest of hard working America is loosing their homes.

Have you seen this one? A lady at a Chicago rally is convinced President Barry will fill her gas tanks and pay her mortgage.


YouTube - Modest Expectations From An Obama Supporter

(Barry was the only name the other Muslim children knew him by when he attended their school in the Far East. We saw it on the news after he was elected. His old classmates at the Muslim school he attended could not believe he was elected president.

[JohnZ963]

No, I think the racial component is key here. I believe the majority of the poorer/troublemaker hispanics/latinos in this area have moved here within the last 10-15 years, coming from NJ, NY, etc. Bethlehem Steel, the textile mills, etc. were long gone or in serious decline by then. Many move here because it's cheaper to live unemployed/on public assistance in PA than it is in NY/NJ. It's not like they were already here and their jobs were taken away from them.

I agree with you on China though.

Originally Posted by mwruckman

People need to understand why Reading, Allentown and dozens of other small PA cities are failing. It is not Latinos or blacks, it is what is missing from these communities. Reading no langer has Dana Corp., the Western Electric plant, Numerous textile mills etc. Reading's biggest employer is the Reading Hospital and Boscov's . Allentown lost Mack Truck and how many jobs were at the Bethleham Steel Works and the Coke plant in Hellertown. Its no wonder these towns are run down and chock full of unemployed. It is the collective fault of us all that Reading, Allentown and numerous otherplaces are the way they are today. Every time we buy a foreign car or some made in China crap from WalMart we are putting a little more dirt on the grave and erasing the oportunities for some poor joe to make an honest living. We've made our beds now sleep in them.