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That's just been my experience, I can't comment on Bath and Sevenoaks as I've never been to those places. Here's a post I wrote in the past about racism In Britain:
Not saying England as a whole is racist, just some parts of it.
I am interested to know what 'experiences' you've suffered? I have lived in the South East all of my life and have not seen any racial problems in the mainly 'white' areas Ive lived in, I honestly don't believe that there is more 'racial tension' in Tunbridge Wells than there is in any part of London for example, there are going to be 'racist people' in any city, town or hamlet in the world but I would suggest that in the UK its far better than a lot of other European nations and that includes the particularly 'white areas'. In fact the only place in Europe that I have been to that seemed a bit racist to me was Zagreb but even here I suggest that a vast majority of people are not racists?
I am interested to know what 'experiences' you've suffered? I have lived in the South East all of my life and have not seen any racial problems in the mainly 'white' areas Ive lived in, I honestly don't believe that there is more 'racial tension' in Tunbridge Wells than there is in any part of London for example, there are going to be 'racist people' in any city, town or hamlet in the world but I would suggest that in the UK its far better than a lot of other European nations and that includes the particularly 'white areas'. In fact the only place in Europe that I have been to that seemed a bit racist to me was Zagreb but even here I suggest that a vast majority of people are not racists?
I already posted a link in my last post.
I've lived here all my life as well, and my experience have been that the whiter areas of Britain tend be more racist than more multi cultural areas like London, is this really that hard to believe? Also how do you know the UK is less racist than most of Europe? Have you actually lived anywhere other than England to make such a conclusion.
I've lived here all my life as well, and my experience have been that the whiter areas of Britain tend be more racist than more multi cultural areas like London, is this really that hard to believe? Also how do you know the UK is less racist than most of Europe? Have you actually lived anywhere other than England to make such a conclusion.
I used to be married to a Croatian, I could certainly tell you first hand the differences between Croatia and the UK, I also have a black family, I have 20 and 17 year old daughters, I could tell you at length about our experiences as a family in both Britain AND Europe if you like? We have always lived outside of London and have never seen this 'racist' theme in the 'whiter' areas that you say exists. Over the years we have been from the tip of Cornwall to Loch Lomond and have found the people to have been warm, friendly and welcoming. Everywhere we've been, I am not suggesting that there are No racists in the UK and I am not suggesting that most Croatians are racist either, there are racist people of all colours and nationalities everywhere on the planet but I am suggesting that London and the UK (not even in the 'whiter' areas) are not particularly 'racist' parts of the world and I most definitely think that racism is nothing to concern any visitor to the island.
I actually saw this post and signed up so I could give my two cents. Firstly as a black brit of Nigerian extraction, I can assure you that you have little to worry about. Compared to the US where I have family and visit often, London is like the promised land.
As another commenter Rory mentioned, I find that in the US there is a lot of tension between the different ethnic groups. I just got back from LA and the irritation of mainly white americans with my girlfriend who happens to be white and Swedish was very apparent. It was a tad better than NYC where we often receive comments and obvious dirty looks. On the 10 freeway, three times in LA, groups of white and black guys in their cars slowed down to gawp at my girlfriend and I (I kid you not). This kind of thing rarely if ever happens in London, in truth no one bats an eyelid. As most folks already pointed out class is more important in England, since I dress well and have a middle class accent, no one questions my girlfriend's choice of partner.
In the US, imo it is clear to me groups self segregrate. It isn't explicitly stated but whites should hang with whites and blacks with blacks etc. In the UK that isnt the case, neighbourhoods are very mixed. On one road in an affluent as well as poor area, you can have a African family, Chinese, Indian and White english all living together amicably. In America I have found this is clearly not the case. My mates are a good mix, although I would admit whites make up the majority, reflecting the demographics of my peer group I guess. Both sides of my family who live in Manhattan and Beverly Hills in the LA find this remarkable as they have few white friends.
I dont want to offend Americans with my post as I actually like the US. But I have always found the separation of different ethnic groups in America puzzling and in truth a bit upsetting. The weird thing is that as a black male, if I stroll around on my own no one bats an eyelid. But if I walk hand in hand up the street with a girl who looks like Blake Lively, the discomfort of some folks is clear. Especially as England is a more reserved culture compared to America, even when Americans think they are being subtle, their demeanour is very telling to me.
That being said England isn't 100% perfect, you may still run into the odd twit, but often they are from out of town or from abroad (some of the silly posts from people like Athane or Saxon Lion show this, but I have never experienced anything in the real world). But for me, I feel way more comfortable as a black person in London than in NYC or LA. Btw black areas do exist like Peckham (African) or Brixton (West Indian), but blacks do not form the absolute majority. Also these enclaves mostly arose as some incoming immigrants found it easier upon arrival to mix amongst their fellow countrymen. You will find English people living there along with other ethnic groups. But as with white enclaves in NYC like little Italy, most areas are a shadow of their former selves as groups (blacks included) assimilate into the mainstream. I think the statistic is that 50% of black Caribbean men and 35% of black African men have a white partner, which shows how integrated the community is. The figure for the US despite having mixed population for far longer is much much lower.
Also a short word about council estates, they are no where near as dangerous as American projects. But as one poster mentioned, stay away from outer London council estates as some of them can be rougher. But if you stay in an areas like Crouch End, Muswell Hill, Highgate, Chelsea (if you have the budget), Hampstead, Angel, Dulwich, Richmond or Southgate you shouldnt encounter any problems.
So in short enjoy your stay.. The only issue is that London is expensive and rents are eye watering. But beyond that you should have fun
Lonely Planet infamously quipped, you'll see more mixed couples in a day in London than a year in NYC. The Jewish, East Asian, a large chunk of both East and West Europeans, and the Caribbean communities are all considered endangered despite their large size, due to a majority being in interracial relationships; the South Asians and Africans have over a third the same way. -And we're not talking just interracial relationships with just the native White Brits either; for example Jamaican-Polish is a common combo, as is African-Indian etc. And the Chinese evenly with every race. London's the one place where Greeks and Turks stop chucking salad at each other and get together into relationships, with Kurds thrown in too (many live/ visit the same neighbourhood around Southgate) .
However the city isn't necessarily some kind of racial nirvana - racism does exist still for smaller minorities or those that are missed off the radar, such as casual racism to East Asians due to smaller numbers, or overt racism to East Europeans not considered racism because they're 'fellow' Whites, or what's called 'subconscious bias' against Muslim names on job adverts that was a thing in the noughties, despite 1/5 of the city being Muslim. -But people do mix a lot more nevertheless, in socialising, relationships and residentially. It's a surprise to many Londoners themselves to find the biggest ethnic majority is only 65% in the central Slough ward, despite 55% of the city being non-native. Many areas are ethnic foci, and attract shoppers and workers for the target market ethnicity eg Jamaicans in Brixton, Japanese in Acton, Jews in Golders Green, French in Kensington, Kurds in Dalston, Koreans in New Malden, Greeks in Green Lanes, Nigerians in Peckham, Nepalese in Woolwich, Trinidadians in Notting Hill, Brazilians in Vauxhall, Germans in Richmond, Colombians in Stockwell, Ugandans in Forest Gate, Sikhs in Southall, Hindus in Wembley, South Africans in Surrey Quays, Bangladeshis in Tower Hamlets, Ghanaians in Waltham Forest, Chinese in Canada Water, Pakistanis in Redbridge, Australians in Earl's Court, Somalis in Ealing etc etc etc. but the reality is none of those are a majority residentially of the communities they cater to. The UK is one of the few countries where Blacks (that's thanks to the West Africans and Caribbean women), South Asians, Middle Easterners and East Asians earn more than Whites. Class doesn't correlate along racial lines (ethnic maybe, but not racial eg the meteoric Nigerians doing much better than the Jamaican males, or the huge wave of middle class Brazilians emigres contrasted with the established Portuguese who are the community most likely to be on benefits). Another example the upper class, long made up of British aristocracy, Arabs and Americans saw an influx of Russians and Indians in the noughties, and in turn French, Chinese, Italians and Nigerians today (it's claimed 50% of the multi-millionaire homes on offer in the centre are being bought up by the latter nationality). Meanwhile on the lower rungs EU expansion sees poor Romanians, Roma and East Europeans arrive in their thousands.
It's highly unlikely you will face racism to you, your family or daughters because of their mixing. Remember, the fastest growing minority is 'mixed race' with mixed race Black children, like your daughters, outnumbering Black children in the schools 2-1 nowadays, and likewise a large number of seemingly White British children actually having immediate 'unseen heritage' (think Alexa Chung, Freddie Mercury, KT Tunstall, Ben Kingsley -or the large number of blonde Iraqi kids). At one point about the turn of the Millennium, when births were at an abnormal low and before the influx of newcomers from the rest of the UK, Latin America and the EU, 50% of children born in London had at least one Black parent. Things have rebalanced since then thanks to the current population explosion.
What you'll find much more discriminatory in the UK is class, based on age old lines. You'd get more bias for having a Cockney/ UK Multicultural accent (regardless of race) as that would mark you out as having some working class background. Unless you're a phoneshop, at which point youd welcome them with open arms.
I actually saw this post and signed up so I could give my two cents. Firstly as a black brit of Nigerian extraction, I can assure you that you have little to worry about. Compared to the US where I have family and visit often, London is like the promised land.
As another commenter Rory mentioned, I find that in the US there is a lot of tension between the different ethnic groups. I just got back from LA and the irritation of mainly white americans with my girlfriend who happens to be white and Swedish was very apparent. It was a tad better than NYC where we often receive comments and obvious dirty looks. On the 10 freeway, three times in LA, groups of white and black guys in their cars slowed down to gawp at my girlfriend and I (I kid you not). This kind of thing rarely if ever happens in London, in truth no one bats an eyelid. As most folks already pointed out class is more important in England, since I dress well and have a middle class accent, no one questions my girlfriend's choice of partner.
In the US, imo it is clear to me groups self segregrate. It isn't explicitly stated but whites should hang with whites and blacks with blacks etc. In the UK that isnt the case, neighbourhoods are very mixed. On one road in an affluent as well as poor area, you can have a African family, Chinese, Indian and White english all living together amicably. In America I have found this is clearly not the case. My mates are a good mix, although I would admit whites make up the majority, reflecting the demographics of my peer group I guess. Both sides of my family who live in Manhattan and Beverly Hills in the LA find this remarkable as they have few white friends.
I dont want to offend Americans with my post as I actually like the US. But I have always found the separation of different ethnic groups in America puzzling and in truth a bit upsetting. The weird thing is that as a black male, if I stroll around on my own no one bats an eyelid. But if I walk hand in hand up the street with a girl who looks like Blake Lively, the discomfort of some folks is clear. Especially as England is a more reserved culture compared to America, even when Americans think they are being subtle, their demeanour is very telling to me.
That being said England isn't 100% perfect, you may still run into the odd twit, but often they are from out of town or from abroad (some of the silly posts from people like Athane or Saxon Lion show this, but I have never experienced anything in the real world). But for me, I feel way more comfortable as a black person in London than in NYC or LA. Btw black areas do exist like Peckham (African) or Brixton (West Indian), but blacks do not form the absolute majority. Also these enclaves mostly arose as some incoming immigrants found it easier upon arrival to mix amongst their fellow countrymen. You will find English people living there along with other ethnic groups. But as with white enclaves in NYC like little Italy, most areas are a shadow of their former selves as groups (blacks included) assimilate into the mainstream. I think the statistic is that 50% of black Caribbean men and 35% of black African men have a white partner, which shows how integrated the community is. The figure for the US despite having mixed population for far longer is much much lower.
Also a short word about council estates, they are no where near as dangerous as American projects. But as one poster mentioned, stay away from outer London council estates as some of them can be rougher. But if you stay in an areas like Crouch End, Muswell Hill, Highgate, Chelsea (if you have the budget), Hampstead, Angel, Dulwich, Richmond or Southgate you shouldnt encounter any problems.
So in short enjoy your stay.. The only issue is that London is expensive and rents are eye watering. But beyond that you should have fun
Hello fellow Nigerian. I keep hearing that England focuses more on class than race but how can that be so when there has not been a prime minister apart from being white? How come it is hard for other races to hold top positions in their careers? I visited England and have relatives from England and I feel that England is no different from America in terms of racism. In fact, I felt that England is equal to America in terms of racism. My relatives, who live in the outskirt of London, commented on how UK was in fact more racist than the U.S. I agree that England might have more inclusive social groups, especially with the younger generation. However, it is also true that the younger generation of Americans are also accepting race differences. There are more blacks in America than in England, so blacks can afford to pair up with one another. In England, there are not that many black people hence why there is more interracial marriage. England on the surface is very superficial-focusing on class but I believe in greater depth the white people (not all of them of course) of England are racist. Obviously, the Brits are more reserved/quiet about their racism whist Americans are more forthright.
I think you'll find England, and London in particularly, a very tolerant place in terms of race, particularly compared with America - and compared with continental European countries.
Unlike America, it is class, not race, that divides Britain. But as an American visitor or expat, this will not affect you. Racism does of course exist - the police, for instance, are far more likely to "stop and search" a black or Asian Londoner than a white one - but it is of a far more muted and subtle variation than the more over racism found elsewhere in the world. As a Black American, it is the Americanness of you rather than your Blackness that will be your defining feature. And I would hazard that being an American of colour will if anything sheild you from some of the anti-Americanism which can be found over here - which is in fact anti-White, "Republican" America. Black Americans, while relatively few in number in terms of the overall U.S. expat population, will be welcomed with open arms in London.
London itself is a racial and ethnic melting pot where numerous shared, hypenated and nuanced itentities exist that go beyond the census-form tick boxes of White, Black and Asian. But to give you a rough idea of numbers, roughly 15.6% of the population of London define themselves as Black - whether indigenous Black British, or recent immigrants from Africa or the Caribbean, or of mixed Black and White British descent. This is a lot higher in boroughs such as Lewisham, Southwark, Lambeth and Hackney - where it is more like 20-30%. While it is true that unlike the US there are no black-majority neighbourhoods (perhaps Brixton or Peckham come close), this is more down to the more mixed-up nature of the UK's ethnic minorities rather than lack of black or minority influence.
You are seriously basing the black and white tensions off of Miami beach-_-
You jut think American cities are black and hispanic...no i dont think you understand, America is Asian, White, Black, Hispanic and Indian, the only race the Uk or London does better on are Arabs.
Does better on!!??? What a strange thing to say?? What difference does it make what colour people are in a city? Why would it be 'better' or 'worse'??
If you think London is a racist place then i honestly have to say you're not going to feel comfortable anywhere else in this world, I can't think of any place more accepting of different cultures, ethnicities and backgrounds than London
If you think London is a racist place then i honestly have to say you're not going to feel comfortable anywhere else in this world, I can't think of any place more accepting of different cultures, ethnicities and backgrounds than London
I agree Victor!
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