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Old 06-28-2010, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
13,756 posts, read 15,730,962 times
Reputation: 4566
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK210 View Post
If your employer would tell you that times are tough and the only way for you to keep the job is to take a pay cut or they would be forced to hire some one else for less..... would you quit the job and have no work or would you keep it get paid less but still have a job and a paycheck.

unemployment might be your option for now, but it does run out...

I would keep the job in this situation, would you?

I'd rather NOT hire any illegals and would appreciate if this country would ship them all back where they came from. If that happens I would be really curious to see who would be picking your fruits and vegetables from the field or getting your poultry ready for shelf in your supermarket.


Again, I'd rather see this government ship them all back, and have legal Americans do the job. -I guess this country hasn't found any replacements for the illegals ... otherwise they would do it by now
.
I've had friends in the situation who had to take an extra week unpaid vacation in order to keep their jobs solvent.

In my post I had stated no options (i.e. unemployment if let go) like a day laborer would experience. The flip side (as Devil's advocate) is that the people who hire the illegals can also drive their wages down -- like you wrote initially (paraphrasing) take this job at less pay, or no job. Would that drive out illegals?

As an interesting aside -- I picked up a local farming magazine while up in Vermont last week. I have to scan it so that I can share it. It discussed the illegals heading to VT to work in the fields. Instead of the employers seeking guest worker visas, we have lawbreakers on both ends. The thing that really gets me is that despite this cheap labor, these same farmers charge a fortune for their produce because it is 'organic'. Meanwhile, there are plenty of able bodied people in the state of VT who aren't working and who SHOULD be in the fields working for their money as opposed to sponging off the system. One big problem we have is too many people find honest, hard work beneath them.
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:44 PM
 
491 posts, read 680,131 times
Reputation: 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
I don't have a babysitter. I pay a professional lawn service owned and operated by white (shocker to you) born and bred US citizens.

The bottom line is I didn't perpetuate the illegal laborer cycle by hiring them. You did. And now you are trying to justify it by trying to spin this to me.

A recent break in in Old Field was committed by day laborers who were hired by the homeowner looking to save a few bucks. A vigilant neighbor saw them and called the village PD, who apprehended them on my friend's front lawn. Food for thought -- you never know who you're bringing home.

You don't know who you're hiring when you pick up a man outside HD or 7-11. No way of knowing who they really are, where they live, etc. No way of tracing them back anywhere but that corner you found them on. You bring them back to your house and they see what you have, see how you live, see your spouse, your children.

We wouldn't pick up a hitchhiker, yet some people have no problem bringing an absolute stranger into their homes and paying them cash money.



Agreed in bold. Very real concerns.

The part prefacing the bold is off base. You accused me of avoiding taxes in your previous post, I set the record straight, not spinning anything back at you, just clarifying truth from fiction.
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
13,756 posts, read 15,730,962 times
Reputation: 4566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burb View Post
[/b]


Agreed in bold. Very real concerns.

The part prefacing the bold is off base. You accused me of avoiding taxes in your previous post, I set the record straight, not spinning anything back at you, just clarifying truth from fiction.
I believe many of us are on the same page with regard to the bold, or have concerns close to them.

As for the part which prefaced that: I had forgotten that an employer (in this case you hiring the day laborers) is required to file a 1099 when the employee has received $600 or more. Seeing as you would consider hiring these men again, you could (depending on length of work) reach that $600 threshold. Knowing that, would you opt to keep using the same men and file a 1099 or would you bring in different men in order to keep the pay exposure below $600?
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
15,752 posts, read 16,313,515 times
Reputation: 6397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burb View Post
With all the immigration threads and frustrations people like to post about the changing demographics of some areas of the island I have a different spin based on events over the weekend.

I had 6 yards of crushed white stone delivered to my house on Sunday morning, which is several tons of stone. My days of hauling stone in a wheelbarrow are long gone so I asked around the stone yard and hired a couple of young guys (white guys if it matters) to come over and wheelbarrow the stone in to place and spread it. I was a little concerned because they seemed reluctant to move that much stone with shovels and wheelbarrows.

Sure enough, I get a phone call Sunday morning, the'yre not coming. Now I'm stuck with a mountain of rocks in my driveway so I took a ride to Home Depot and hired a couple of day laborers to come lend a hand. These guys were awesome. They busted their a$$ and got the job done quickly and thoroughly. Both spoke very little english but were greatful for the work. I may hire them again for some other projects I have going.

This got me thinking a bit. With all the controversy with illegal immigration, one thing is pretty clear. We as a society have gotten lazy with a sense of entitlement that our forefathers did not share. Nor do the immigrants today. These guys will take any job and work hard. Most American wouldn't take that type of job, or would take the job as a last resort, if nothing easier came up, it's hard work.

Roles reversed, how many people in their young twenties that you know would be willing to leave long Island with nothing, leaving family and familiar surrounding behind, and risk travel to a foreign country to make a better life for themself. How many won't even risk moving out of their parents basement?

I'm still for stronger enforcement of immigration laws, either enforce or change the law, but don't ignore the problem. But spending the day with these industrious young men was refreshing. Before scowling at the pack of day laborers hanging out at Home Depot, remember at least these folks are willing to work hard to try to get ahead. More than I can say about many of us.
Please do not stereotype ALL AMERICANS as lazy oafs just because of your one experience here.

Please also do not stereotype ILLEGAL ALIENS as heroic angels just because you had one satisfactory experience with a few of them.

You're luckier than you know. What would have happened to you if they had become injured on your property? I've written on this before on C-D, but apparently it bears repeating. Here's a cut and paste, although please note this is a little different from your situation in that it is about hiring contractors who bring illegal aliens onto your property, not hiring them directly:

Quote:
And also remember that if an illegal alien day laborer gets hurt on your property, there is a 99.9% chance that the contractor has no health insurance for the workers, nor any liability or workers' compensation insurance (even if they do illegal aliens are not covered by workers' comp), and the HOMEOWNER'S insurance will take the hit (and if the homeowner's insurance does not cover it all, there could be a lien placed on the house).

I know a true story of this happening to a woman in CT who hired a tree service that sent illegal aliens to do the work. There was an accident with a power tool and one man lost his eye. The contractor had no insurance whatsoever, and conveniently, nothing in his name, so the homeowner's insurance was sued and he got off scot-free. Being in this country without a valid visa (e.g., being an illegal alien) is not a "criminal" offense, it is only considered an "administrative" offense. They have the right to sue U.S. citizens in the U.S. courts without fear of (immediate) deportation. And plenty of lawyers will represent them.
PS: Her homeowners' insurance topped out so the illegal alien has a lien on her home if she ever sells it.
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
15,752 posts, read 16,313,515 times
Reputation: 6397
Default A popular "forward"

Your post reminded me of this popular e-mail forward. This one is CA-specific in its wording, but is true anywhere in the USA:

Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal

Here is an example of why hiring illegal aliens is not economically
productive for the State of California ...

You have 2 families..."Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both families have 2
parents, 2 children and live in California. "Joe Legal" works in
construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes $25.00 per hour with
payroll taxes deducted...."Jose Illegal" also works in construction, has
"NO" Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Joe Legal...$25.00 per hour x 40 hours $1000.00 per week, $52,000 per
year.

Now take 30% away for state federal tax, Joe Legal now has $31,231.00

Jose Illegal...$15.00 per hour x 40 hours $600.00 per week, $31,200.00 per
year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes... Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00

Joe Legal pays Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage $1000.00
per month, $12,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $19,231.00

Jose Illegal has full Medical and Dental coverage through the state and
local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00

Joe Legal makes too much money is not eligible for Food Stamps or welfare.
Joe Legal pays for food $1,000.00 per month, $12,000.00 per year. Joe
Legal now has $7,231.00

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for Food Stamps and
Welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,000.00 per month. $12,000.00 per year. Joe Legal
is now in the hole minus (-) $4,769.00

Jose Illegal receives a $500 per month Federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal
pays rent. $500.00 per month. $6,000.00 per year Jose Illegal still has
$31,200.00

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after
work.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe
Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a
government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after school
ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same Police and Fire Services,
but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.

Don't vote/support any politician that supports illegal aliens...Its PAST
time to take a stand for America and Americans!
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
15,752 posts, read 16,313,515 times
Reputation: 6397
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK210 View Post
You either work for less money or NOT work and get no money.
I'm with you OP on this one!

if the legals were willing to work - I have no problem hiring them and even paying a little more, BUT people got lazy and don't feel responsible enough.... a lot of "legals" would just look at the job and think of a way to get it done with least amount of effort and not even think twice about screwing you over (be it sloppy job, canceling on you the day of the job, not showing up or some other lame excuse).

The laborers on the other hand would do anything to get it done and get paid for the job - for them there is an incentive and the value is much better then the regular workers. not to mention, if they feel like there is more work to be had, they work even harder just to make sure they get the chance to come back and work more.


Again, there is nothing better then hiring a good legal worker, but those are far and few...
I'd like to see you tell that to the teachers' unions ... who are the cause of our out-of-control property taxes (a main reason it is hard for us to "work for less").
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
15,752 posts, read 16,313,515 times
Reputation: 6397
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilTownBlues View Post
I agree with you on this, the key issue is the legality. If the person is in this country illegally then any employment of this person is also illegal. It also potentially helps foster a cycle of continued illegal hiring encouraging continued illegal immigration.

Really doesn't matter if an individual is a "bad" person, or if they have a "bad" work ethic. If they are legal then they are capable of being employed legally. On the flip side, it doesn't matter if the person is a true "saint", if they are illegal then any employment is illegal, IMO.

That being said, I don't disagree with Burb in many of his points. IMO young America is not as willing to do the "dirty work" that generations before them were willing to do.
Go down to the beaches affected by the BP oil leak in Alabama and Florida and take a look at all the ACTUAL YOUNG AMERICANS doing cleanup in the heat. The schedule for civilians is 12 hours a day with 1 day off a month. I personally know two working there, both young white males, one working as a civilian, one with the military. Speaking of military, go see how our young men and women are "taking it easy" over in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
15,752 posts, read 16,313,515 times
Reputation: 6397
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
There was an article in Newsday about 18 months ago about illegal aliens from Ecuador who would come here, send home money and have the Ecuadorean equivalent of Mcmansions built. After 12-15 years they would permanently leave the USA and live like kings down there.

Figure if these guys are getting $150 a day cash -- for a 5 day week that's 39K a year. They're living like sardines, paying little rent. They're accepting clothes from church charities. They're using the ERs for their injuries and illnesses. They have to buy food, but usually have the 'boss' buy them lunch -- eliminating one meal a day they pay for. For 12 years work, they have earned $468,000 TAX FREE while having used taxpayer provided services.
I read that article too.
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:42 PM
 
3,686 posts, read 4,323,598 times
Reputation: 1678
I_Love_LI...I believe you are "generalizing" about a minority of young Americans. Most are lazy shiftless Gen Y losers.
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
15,752 posts, read 16,313,515 times
Reputation: 6397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gpsma View Post
For everyone that is crucifying the OP because he hired illegals let me ask if you require all the contractors that you use to verify they don't hire illegals. How many of you use landscapers that hire illegals?..yet you still pay your landscaper. How many of you have had work done at your homes?...did you require documentation from every worker at the job?
Yes, I do and have for some time now. Usually I hire people I know if I have to hire anyone, but if they are bringing along laborers I haven't met I make it clear to them no illegal aliens of ANY KIND ...

See this old post:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/11315560-post24.html
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