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It seems to me that quite a few people are not considering those taxes when they buy.
When you buy you HAVE TO consider the taxes even if you really don't want to look (unless you are buying all cash) because the mortgage-holder MAKES SURE you pay your taxes by collecting the money from you each month with the mortgage payment. If you are not buying all cash, there is no way to ignore it.
While it's easy to say "just move", the reality is....houses in Levittown with $13K taxes might not be such an easy sell. Additionally, most people cannot just pick up and move their jobs - especially now. Not only are Long Island stuck with crazy high taxes, they are often stuck with NYC-centric jobs (or at least they perceive them that way). THis is one of many reasons we moved - we don't want our kids getting "stuck" in a place that's not that affordable and not that nice just because they have a job here.
And to say that someone who bought their house in the mid-1990s, as we did, should have foreseen a historical (but unfortunately not once-in-a-lifetime) jump in taxes is just plain silly. If I could see that future that clearly I wouldn't be worrying about taxes and housing prices. We didn't buy more house than we could afford - the amount we paid for our house in Garden City is still less than what you'd pay in Uniondale these days. Taxes were under $5,000. We expected them to go up, but by the time we retire they're going to be over $20k, no doubt about it. No way am I putting our hardearned money toward almost $2K a month in property taxes alone.
Finally, the people who are really hurting are often seniors. Again - there is no way they could have planned for this kind of increase in their cost of living. ANd it's not so easy to pick up and move when you're elderly. My parents moved last year - they are in their mid-70s, in pretty good shape, and the move took a toll on them. It's not so easy to find your way around a whole new place, get new doctors, find a new church and a whole new social scene at that age. Add to that most seniors have convinced their kids to stay on Long Island and then it's that much harder to up and leave them behind.
I really don't know what the answer is, but blaming homeowners is just wrong.
When you buy you HAVE TO consider the taxes even if you really don't want to look (unless you are buying all cash) because the mortgage-holder MAKES SURE you pay your taxes by collecting the money from you each month with the mortgage payment. If you are not buying all cash, there is no way to ignore it.
All-cash might just be where it's going, actually. I know someone who just got beat out of a 300K+ house that he signed a contract on in East Setauket because someone else came along with cash before the seller signed.
Of course, if someone has that kind of money to plunk down on a house, the property taxes are probably not a problem.
I really don't know what the answer is, but blaming homeowners is just wrong.
Anyone who bought a house in the last five years with any intention other than to live in it for a good long time is a moron. I saw this meltdown coming in 2003. The only miracle is that it didn't happen sooner.
Anyone who bought a house in the last five years with any intention other than to live in it for a good long time is a moron. I saw this meltdown coming in 2003. The only miracle is that it didn't happen sooner.
I don't entirely disagree with you on this. THe thinking has changed from "I want to buy a house to live in because that's the American Dream" to "how much money am I going to make on this house?" When we bought our first house we didn't even consider how much we'd make on it.
We just moved and we had a project we wanted to do right away. We had a contractor in to give a price and he tried to talk us out of it because he wasn't sure how much value it would add to the house. THis was literally days after we moved in....we were like "we aren't going anywhere any time soon....and we really want this done SO WE CAN ENJOY THE HOUSE WE ARE LIVING IN!" People don't seem to get that anymore. (BTW, lest you think this contractor was looking out for us, he tried to talk us into a million other projects).
BUt the bottom line is E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E on Long Island is either being affected or will be affected by the skyrocketing taxes (this includes renters, who will have costs passed on to them), and not everyone bought a house in the last 5 years. My parents finally threw in the towel when the taxes on their townhouse in Commack went to $11K a year. THey could AFFORD it, but didn't really WANT to. Who can blame them?
All-cash might just be where it's going, actually. I know someone who just got beat out of a 300K+ house that he signed a contract on in East Setauket because someone else came along with cash before the seller signed.
Of course, if someone has that kind of money to plunk down on a house, the property taxes are probably not a problem.
Maybe that's where the Island is headed. *shrugs*
That may not be a good direction for LI to be headed in and it doesn't impress me.
Just because someone has a spare $300K+ cash they can purchase a house with does not make them superior or "better" people to buy into your neighborhood. Actually, it's more likely that they might play a part in bringing a middle-class owner-occupied neighborhood DOWN.
Usually it's the "investor" class who buys all cash, not people who actually want to live in the home. And the investor class has not done much for neighborhoods with too many of them owning properties they rent. Take a look at North Bellport and Huntington Station as just two examples.
I would rather a family with a mortgage live near me than an investor-owned rental property.
Recently I saw a craigslist ad renting bedrooms in a 5-bedroom house in Levittown. It was not owner-occupied, as all 5 bedrooms were available for rent. Why do they want to put 5 strangers in a house? Because they can make more money than renting the house as a single-family home. That's just a step away from when they get really greedy and turn the place into a flophouse with more tenants than bedrooms.
I don't entirely disagree with you on this. THe thinking has changed from "I want to buy a house to live in because that's the American Dream" to "how much money am I going to make on this house?" When we bought our first house we didn't even consider how much we'd make on it.
We just moved and we had a project we wanted to do right away. We had a contractor in to give a price and he tried to talk us out of it because he wasn't sure how much value it would add to the house. THis was literally days after we moved in....we were like "we aren't going anywhere any time soon....and we really want this done SO WE CAN ENJOY THE HOUSE WE ARE LIVING IN!" People don't seem to get that anymore. (BTW, lest you think this contractor was looking out for us, he tried to talk us into a million other projects).
BUt the bottom line is E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E on Long Island is either being affected or will be affected by the skyrocketing taxes (this includes renters, who will have costs passed on to them), and not everyone bought a house in the last 5 years. My parents finally threw in the towel when the taxes on their townhouse in Commack went to $11K a year. THey could AFFORD it, but didn't really WANT to. Who can blame them?
I certainly can't blame them. My sisters and I inherited a house here in 2000. We put it on the market as fast as humanly possible. Three of us were in other parts of the country, but one was living there, and even she didn't want to stay there. Why? Because we saw what was coming.
In fact, that's why three of us were in other parts of the country to begin with.
Certain people on this thread act like Long Island having major financial problems is something new. It's not. Long Island has always had one gargantuan mess or another. LILCO/Shoreham, utilities, roads, and yes, way back when, education. I remember the teachers' strikes of the early 1980s. Even now, there's another mess in full swing: Look at the thread about the MTA.
That is why three of the four of us left, and left very young. Sorry, but Long Island has not been friendly to the working class since the mid 1970s, and that's being generous. By the time Grumman got around to leaving in the mid 90s, the Island had become a shadow of its former promise.
Which is why I think it doesn't take a rocket scientist, no pun intended, to see the trends. Even if you (in the general) did by a house in 2003, how many years of tax increases does it take before the light goes on? Because with me, once, twice, third time's a charm and I'd have sold in 2006 and gotten the hell out.
There are two ways of looking at it:
You can either realize that Long Island, as part of the moronically run state of New York, is misgoverned from Albany down, cut your losses, and move on.
Or you can realize that Long Island, as part of the moronically run state of New York, is misgoverned from Albany down, get off yer arse, devise solutions, organize, and try to fix it.
But, see, certain people here seem to think there's a viable third option: Dig in your heels, pizz and moan, and do nothing but scapegoat. What a stupid waste of time.
"UNION CONCESSIONS" is not a realistic rallying cry, because you're pitting resident against resident and family against family. The entire tax structure needs to be overhauled, as does the educational system. It is absolutely foolish to have 40 bazillion school districts, with all of the accompanying administrators. It is also absolutely foolish to expect police officers to make $50K a year.
The fact is that Long Island, as a product of New York, has been mismanaged for decades. Jaysus, if Virginia had been run into the ground like New York has been, the masses would be in Richmond with pitchforks and scythes. Oh, and look, Virginia is transparent. You go to the [URL="http://dpb.virginia.gov/budget/budget.cfm"]budget page of the Virginia government[/URL], and there's a link to a [URL="http://dpb.virginia.gov/budget/faq.cfm"]FAQ[/URL] right at the top, and the first two questions are "Where does the money come from?" and "Where does the money go?" If you can understand 10th-grade English, you can understand the FAQ. There's not even one dang footnote on the page. You can read straight through.
You go to the [URL="http://www.budget.state.ny.us/"]budget page for New York[/URL], and you have to drill down into 40 bazillion PDFs (PDFs = PITA right there) to get any information, 90% of which is in legalese that would give most people a migraine to read. What isn't in PDF is written by wonks, for wonks. The executive summary (http://publications.budget.state.ny.us/budgetFP/1011summary/1011enacted_summary1.html - broken link) has a footnote sending you to a glossary so you can learn the acronyms, so right off the bat, you have to go find something else. I have half a nerve to take the civil service test for whatever section their communications division is in just so I could make their dang website user-friendly.
But, see, it's all typical of New York. The slogan here should be, "New York: Where We Make Things More Difficult Than They Have To Be."
Long Island, where a lot of the money is, is just a microcosm reflecting the overall culture and governance.
Sorry, but your kid's third-grade teacher and the cop that came to your house when you thought someone was trying to break in are not the source of Long Island's problems.
And now I've used up my word count for this topic.
That may not be a good direction for LI to be headed in and it doesn't impress me.
It wasn't meant to.
Quote:
Just because someone has a spare $300K+ cash they can purchase a house with does not make them superior or "better" people to buy into your neighborhood.
No one said they were. There's no need to be defensive.
Quote:
Actually, it's more likely that they might play a part in bringing a middle-class owner-occupied neighborhood DOWN.
Usually it's the "investor" class who buys all cash, not people who actually want to live in the home. And the investor class has not done much for neighborhoods with too many of them owning properties they rent. Take a look at North Bellport and Huntington Station as just two examples.
I would rather a family with a mortgage live near me than an investor-owned rental property.
Were you among those who shot down the Avalon project?
Investors wouldn't buy to rent out if there wasn't a demand for it. Long Island has precious few respectable, well-maintained rental communities.
No one said they were. There's no need to be defensive.
Were you among those who shot down the Avalon project?
Investors wouldn't buy to rent out if there wasn't a demand for it. Long Island has precious few respectable, well-maintained rental communities.
It sounded like you were impressed by what you wrote. I was just trying to show the other side of what it could be. If less and less "real families" can afford to purchase a home on LI and keep it (due to the property taxes), who do you think will come in and buy up the homes?
I had nothing to do with Avalon because I don't live in that community. If they wanted to put Avalon in my community, I would have no problem with it as long as there was a clear and firm eviction policy for criminal behavior.
Renting out rooms in a single-family house to strangers and transients is not akin to providing a "well-maintained rental community."
You can either realize that Long Island, as part of the moronically run state of New York, is misgoverned from Albany down, cut your losses, and move on.
Or you can realize that Long Island, as part of the moronically run state of New York, is misgoverned from Albany down, get off yer arse, devise solutions, organize, and try to fix it.
But, see, certain people here seem to think there's a viable third option: Dig in your heels, pizz and moan, and do nothing but scapegoat. What a stupid waste of time.
First of all, your suggested "solutions" are unrealistic pie in the sky. You make it sound like it is so easy for the entire private sector to instantly organize into unions to "make a lot of money, have fairytale job security, pensions and benefits" and that since most of the private sector is not unionized that means the workers in it are just idiots and it SHOULD BE and the real problem is not UNAFFORDABLE PROPERTY TAXES but that we are just jealous and cheap and that is why we are speaking out. You have been talking about going on job interviews and not liking what you find out there so instead you continue your own business. If your contention that it is the private sector workers' fault that things are the way they are and it is "so easy" to snap your fingers and have a union in the private sector was true, then why aren't you taking a job as an employee and then immediately rallying for a union by calling, for example, the Teamster's Graphic Communications division (who cover writers) to come in and organize the workplace? Don't YOU want guaranteed raises, generous benefits and a pension? I would assume you want at least a salary and benefits if you are out looking for employment. So why aren't you our shining example of "doing something" instead of "pizzing and moaning" about the employers you have recently met with? You walked out on a writing job on LI. Why didn't you call the Teamsters and get them IN THERE so that your workplace would be more to your liking instead of quitting and then "pizzing and moaning" on here about the boss's sister and the nepotism in that workplace?
Who says we are NOT working on solutions and trying to fix the problems? This thread and others like it is NOT simply "pizzing and moaning" ... it is consciousness raising and exchanging ideas. Trying to make us "shut up and keep quiet about these things" by disparaging us and attempting to ridicule us for being "whiners" is not going to work. If you side with the entrenched powers and current establishment no matter what, that is your right, but we also have a right to express ourselves and do not appreciate the "all LI public service unions are 100% right in all instances" playbook tactics to attempt to stop us from divulging information. Each person on here also TALKS to other Long Islanders about these issues and exchanges ideas and makes plans of action. We are not required to divulge our plans of action to you unless we want to. A few people on here have (someone wrote a letter to their community newspaper that was published and told us about it, some people started a group in Garden City to inform the public about the problems with the school budget and informed us about it and there are more stories like that).
The crux of the property tax problem has been HIDDEN from most Long Islanders (school boards letting the teachers' unions have whatever they want) and blamed on other fall guys and scapegoats (Suozzi in Nassau, for example) to take the fall for it. This has been going on for decades and now it's coming to a head and we have to COMPROMISE. That means the teachers' unions and the administrators who piggyback off their contracts too. They are not used to compromising and so far only a few have come forth to do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avienne
"UNION CONCESSIONS" is not a realistic rallying cry, because you're pitting resident against resident and family against family. The entire tax structure needs to be overhauled, as does the educational system. It is absolutely foolish to have 40 bazillion school districts, with all of the accompanying administrators. It is also absolutely foolish to expect police officers to make $50K a year.
When the tactics of certain unions make their members the direct cause of our high property taxes, then, yes, union concessions are in order for those unions. Definitely not for all public service unions. As for "police officers should make $50K" ... it is not something I support and I also don't recall anyone saying that.
[SKIPS OVER "VIRGINIA IS SO MUCH BETTER" PITCH]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avienne
Sorry, but your kid's third-grade teacher and the cop that came to your house when you thought someone was trying to break in are not the source of Long Island's problems.
I agree. The PEOPLE who do these jobs are absolutely NOT the problem! It's their UNIONS that have a stranglehold on local government that are.
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Oh, fiddle-dee-dee!
