Smokin Sloe's in Northport

[Pequaman]

Originally Posted by h-tonian

Pequaman, if you really think that's my argument, you might want to brush up on your critical reading skills a bit.

Here, I'll quote my last post:

I'm starting to get bored with the circles these conversations go in and am beginning to see why many of the very bright posters here are simply treating your side of this "argument" as a joke. My argument is pretty simple: Context, context, context.

CDPs and census data do not fit the context of THIS discussion. That doesn't mean they have ZERO relevance ever. Coastal flood reports are also relevant to businesses in Northport. That doesn't mean I should go around posting FEMA reports in threads about BBQ restaurants.

I could continue this increasingly boring conversation, but literally just had the following interaction with my wife:

Good night C-D!

I can read just fine H-T. My side of "the argument" (if you want to call it that) is: People are free to post what they want on here and that the Hamlet-CDP-Village statistical and map data provided by census, is accurate. You claim that your only beef is that the data "does not fit the context of this discussion", well I don't completely buy that. WG corrected the OP on pg1 and it took 1 sentence to do this. I have seen other instances where you claim that factfinder and census is for hobbyists, used only by "Cliff Claven types"; and "no one takes it seriously" and that your "zip code determines your location"...I wonder if the circumstances were different and USPS for whatever reason assigned all of West Hills, a 11746 Huntington Station Zip code, would you feel the same way?
Could it be that your involvement with GIS systems has something to do with this? IDk for sure.

side note: Didn't part of Bethpage suddenly get a new "Hicksville" ZIP-code virtually overnight a few years back? Anyone remember this?

You claim GIS systems and ZIP are superior to census/CDP and the data provided on factfinder. Factfinder is a free site that offers a plethora of valuable information, that I'm sure causes many companies in the business of 'selling' this data, to cringe. I can find out a lot more information about current trends and shifts in demographics in Huntington Station here> Huntington Station CDP, New York - Fact Sheet - American FactFinder than I can using costly GIS data. In fact, a lot of city-data type sites that I cannot mention because they are competitors to C-D, are completely damaged goods and inaccurate because they use ZIP code and GIS data in their applications. I'm not saying GIS/ZIP don't have any purpose, but when researching a specific hamlet or village's (Social/Economic/Housing/Demographic) data, I can get more answers from factfinder and connect that data to a specific hamlet or village map.

Originally Posted by 4thGenHuntington

I will agree that in many cases, Walter's efforts end up being a bit more confusing than helpful, primarily in threads that don't require CDP/SD/Zip information whatsoever. Key word being "helpful", because I'm sure that is his intention.

I'll admit, I myself don't care for a number of his posts. But another thing I (as well as many other C-D posters I'm sure) don't care for is rudeness. There are countless other forums where your childish, "Who Cares?" would be totally called for, but here it's unnecessary. A little respect can go a long way.

A little apathy mixed with ADD = you get posters like that, that don't have the attention span for this stuff. I just shrug the one-liner-champs or "very bright posters" considered by some here, the same way people should be shrugging WG's informative posts if they don't agree with them. I don't see what the big fuss is. Why do people feel so threatened by the FREE & valuable data provided by census ?
Sometimes the posts can seem confusing or misplaced, but like you said, I highly doubt that he comes here simply "to spam and confuse" people. In fact, I think the intention is the exact opposite of that. What is this site's purpose if not to help people gather data and information about all US cities? I like hearing everyone's views and input, whether I agree with them or not.

from the C-D home page at City-data.com

If you ever need to research any city, zip code, or neighborhood for any reason, from considering a move there to just checking where somebody you know is staying, this is the site for you.

[kayfouroh]

Originally Posted by 4thGenHuntington

I will agree that in many cases, Walter's efforts end up being a bit more confusing than helpful, primarily in threads that don't require CDP/SD/Zip information whatsoever. Key word being "helpful", because I'm sure that is his intention.

I'll admit, I myself don't care for a number of his posts. But another thing I (as well as many other C-D posters I'm sure) don't care for is rudeness. There are countless other forums where your childish, "Who Cares?" would be totally called for, but here it's unnecessary. A little respect can go a long way.

While you may consider my post "rude", I do not. What I meant to say was, what average person really cares about half of the garbage posted about town/hamlet/city/village limits, what school district a restaurant is, what height from sea level a book store is, etc. It is just that: garbage information.

I wonder if I could get away with posting the current weather information when someone asks about an area/establishment.

[kayfouroh]

Originally Posted by Pequaman

A little apathy mixed with ADD = you get posters like that, that don't have the attention span for this stuff. I just shrug the one-liner-champs or "very bright posters" considered by some here, the same way people should be shrugging WG's informative posts if they don't agree with them. I don't see what the big fuss is. Why do people feel so threatened by the FREE & valuable data provided by census ?
Sometimes the posts can seem confusing or misplaced, but like you said, I highly doubt that he comes here simply "to spam and confuse" people. In fact, I think the intention is the exact opposite of that. What is this site's purpose if not to help people gather data and information about all US cities? I like hearing everyone's views and input, whether I agree with them or not.

from the C-D home page at City-data.com

All he does is quote from one or maybe two sites. We could just sticky a link to the site and anyone who really cares about it could just click and look for themselves... but for everyone else, they would not see the garbage.

[h-tonian]

Originally Posted by Pequaman

...

Since this is so ridiculously off topic, I've placed my response in spoiler tags as courtesy to everyone else.

Spoiler

Originally Posted by Pequaman

I can read just fine H-T. My side of "the argument" (if you want to call it that) is: People are free to post what they want on here and that the Hamlet-CDP-Village statistical and map data provided by census, is accurate.

As stated above, flood reports also have relevancy in the Northport area. The next time someone asks about a dentist in Northport, should I post FEMA documents? Should I post a NASA star chart for what the sky will look like in Northport that night? Should I post the median-age of dentists in the Northport area as provided by the ADA? I'm free to post this stuff, right? It's on-topic since someone said "Northport," right?

You claim that your only beef is that the data "does not fit the context of this discussion", well I don't completely buy that. WG corrected the OP on pg1 and it took 2 sentences to do this.

A correction wasn't necessary. Smokin' Sloes was located in Northport, NY. It also wasn't necessary because it was completely off-topic.

I have seen other instances where you claim that factfinder and census is for hobbyists, used only by Cliff Claven types; and no one takes it seriously and that your zip code determines your location..

Yes, FactFinder is designed for use by the general public and information hobbyists. Professionals don't use it. It's designed (in theory) to present complex datasets in a simple easy-to-access and understand manner. Its simplicity belies the voluminous amounts of complex information so that (in theory) a child can use it for school reports. In an attempt to simplify this info for the general public (which is an absolutely wonderful thing) it does not always paint an accurate picture of the complex and deep information as statisticians and other information professionals would understand it.

I was specifically referring to the reference maps interface on FactFinder - which is, again, designed for the general public, not cartographers and geographic info pros. They use more complex systems such as ArcGIS, QGIS, GRASS, and QDAL that require a greater degree of learning (often professional-level) to use. Aside from ArcGIS all of the aforementioned systems are open source and freely available.

FactFinder's interfaces and architecture are also notoriously badly designed. The poor architecture and design means it isn't so easy-to-use. Extensive usability tests have shown this to be the case. If you get someone from the Census off-the-record they will openly ***** about this. It also frequently makes errors that have been pointed out on these boards (see here and here).

...and yes, my car's GPS, my smartphoone, my bills, the Town of Huntington, and the IRS all use my zip code and/or postal city/town to determine my location, not the CDP listed on U.S. FactFinder. Even my Census questionnaire was addressed "Huntington, NY."

I wonder if your circumstances were different and USPS assigned all of West Hills, a 11746 Huntington Station Zip code, would you feel the same way?

Well, I know you and WG prefer simple yes-and-no black-and-white type answers but this calls for a much more complicated and knowledgeable one. Again, your not from the area, so I'll give you a little background.

1. As you like to point out, USPS doesn't assign ZIP codes to entire hamlets.

2. The USPS didn't assign my home a 11746 ZIP code in 1963. It's spent the last 50 years as part of the Huntington, NY 11743 community and has been shaped by that community for generations now.

3. My, neighborhood, Cold Spring Hills, has been considered to be "in Huntington" since it's founding 70 years ago (click to see the NYT article announcing it's birth).

Spoiler

You'll notice the NYT article refers to the "villages" of Huntington, Cold Spring Harbor and Woodbury the same we us "geographical illiterates" do.

4. I've already explained to you that the wonky FactFinder isn't sure whether my CDP/hamlet is West Hills or Cold Spring Harbor, so I'm not even sure which hamlet I "live in." This theoretical 11746 ZIP in West Hills might not even affect me.

5. Had the USPS decided in 1963 that we were to be part of 11746, yes, I imagine there would been an issue. I also have faith that the politically influential powers that existed at that time (including the CSH Civic Association, CS Country Club, and Eastern Military Academy) would have solved it. For all I know, they did. Perhaps they would have lobbied the USPS for Cold Spring Hills, 11746 (as Lloyd Harbor, 11743 and Dix Hills, 11746 have successfully done). Who knows, it's an alternate universe that doesn't exist. My point is - this a non-issue.

Could it be that your involvement with GIS systems has something to do with this? IDk for sure.You claim GIS systems and ZIP are superior to census/CDP and the data provided on factfinder. Factfinder is a free site that offers a plethora of valuable information, that I'm sure causes many companies in the business of 'selling' this data, to cringe.

I'm pretty sure you're confused about what GIS data is. GIS = Geographic Information System. In layman's terms, it's simply a visual system that organizes information around the concept of space (such as cartographically or using a 3D environment). It doesn't have to be "costly." FactFinder's reference maps interface is a GIS, as are other free web based applications like Google Earth or Map Quest. As stated above, many of the commonly used pro GIS' are available for free. Your novelty "Fish Rot" police blotter map was also created using a GIS.

While I am a partner in a commercial IA firm, I mostly work with Colleges and Universities and, gasp, the government). As a retired journalist my professional and academic interest is in making information as easily as freely available as possible. That means studying and bettering interfaces like FactFinder, because I understand how bad it is. So, no, I don't have a sinister corporate agenda.

I can find out a lot more information about current trends and shifts in demographics in Huntington Station here> Huntington Station CDP, New York - Fact Sheet - American FactFinder than I can using costly GIS data.

You'll get no argument from me (except for the "costly" GIS part). As a local, I'm quite skeptical of the Huntington Station Fact Sheet's margin of error in most of these categories though given the large number of illegal dwellings and the increasing number of Latino immigrants there. These groups (both legal and illegal) are known to shy away from Census questionnaires). As this data could have been collected anytime between 2005-2009, I'm not sure how "current" it is either. At least it's more current than most census data, which as this point is 11 years old. But, yes, it's a great resource. It also has nothing to do with BBQ restaurants.

In fact, a lot of city-data type sites that I cannot mention because they are competitors to C-D, are completely damaged goods and inaccurate because they use ZIP code and GIS data in their applications. I'm not saying GIS/ZIP don't have any purpose, but when researching a specific hamlet or village's (Social/Economic/Housing/Demographic) data, I can get more answers from factfinder and connect that data to a specific hamlet or village map.

While census data is collected at the CDP level, it can also be analyzed at the postal, SD, even fire district (I'm blue in the face from saying this). What if your CDP isn't as reflective as your "community" as your postal town or SD? The Cold Spring Harbor CDP certainly isn't as it oddly assigns certain sections to Huntington CDP. It also won't include Laurel Hollow or Lloyd Harbor, which are generally thought of as part of the community. The West Hills CDP isn't reflective of any real world community as it contains parts of three distinct communities with more defined identities. West Hills is a lovely area, but my neighbors and I are not part of that community.

In addition to my argument about context, my other main argument is that it takes the nuanced perspective of a local to provide a community profile, which is what C-D is about (no, it's not a geography forum). A wonky census map might say part of Lloyd Harbor is in SD#3, but it takes someone with firsthand knowledge of the area to point out that this is an error. A fact sheet on Quogue is going to look a little different to someone from Quogue, than it's going to look to you or me.

I know nothing about Massapequa. I'm pretty sure that I've never even set foot there. For that reason, I don't comment on it. I certainly don't insist locals are "wrong" or "illiterate" when they comment on their community (a place I know nothing about) based on overly simplistic black-and-white ideas about how things work. I'd appreciate it if others did the same about my community.

Telling a local that Smokin' Sloes isn't in Northport or that I don't live in Huntington is obnoxious...and it's incorrect...and it has nothing to do with BBQ.

[Crookhaven]

How did I know that this was completely OT
Like who really gives and 11 page rats ass about Sloes.

Wheres that dumbassed choochoo thread

[felixtibs]

you ever have the wings from Smokin Sloes? The are amazing but NOT ON THE MENU!

[h-tonian]

Originally Posted by felixtibs

you ever have the wings from Smokin Sloes? The are amazing but NOT ON THE MENU!

I'll have to try them the next time I'm in there