Avoid Long Island If You Can (Babylon, Levittown: homeowners insurance, condo, mortgages)

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean

There is absolutely a cycle that families follow, but who's to say the cycle that follows the ills of poverty is any worse than the cycle that follows regenerating wealth? Rich kids cave in to the same pressures as the poor kids, but they don't face anywhere near the same consequences when they fail. I have yet to meet anyone in my life who was born with money and didn't grow up to retain that money no matter how irresponsible, lazy and reckless they were. Is that what makes a "good" school district? Because I tend to notice the "good" school districts are generally in the areas where the money is located and I would never want my kids hanging out with people like that, I'd never want to hang out with people like that myself!
I agree with you. I wouldn't want to send my kid to a school where all the seniors pull up in their BMW's or Mercedes. I had an 83 Chevy . Celebrity as my first car.. and this was in 91. I was lucky enough that my parents bought it.. and I wouldn't buy my kids a car like that or WANT them to grow up thinking that money grows on trees. Yes, you're right the cycle of wealth goes around too (although isn't it better that they haev then NOT have?) To be in a "good"school does not meanyou have to be in E. Williston or Roslyn SD .. it simply means a SD without all the inherent disadvantages. I consider Island Trees and Levittown and the SD I grew up in , N. Babylon to be "good" school districts and there isn't neccesarily a lot of money in those districts..again they are blue collar districts.
That is just way too simple of a view to have in my opinion. You can grow up poor, with loving parents who work their tails off and try to instill the best values possible, but at the same time can never catch a break....and when you don't have a lot of money, even a minor setback can snowball into something massive. It's not hard to see how a kid growing up in this environment can get disillusioned at a very young age...especially when everyone else in the area is going through something similar or even more screwed up and the schools aren't helping either because they're run by people who don't care one bit. Is it the parents fault for trying to chase down their own piece of the American dream, making a better life for their children and ultimately failing at it... Or is it the education system -- the ONE THING that is supposed to offer people from all walks of life the chance at upward social and economic mobility -- is it their fault for completely failing in it's purpose and just playing into this never ending cycle?
It's not their fault and we are all creatures of our circumstances.... My point was I wouldn't want my child to grow up in an environment with the disillusion that you speak of. The whole point of the post is that LI is becoming unaffordable for most... the middle class is dissappearing and quickly. You either have a lot of money or you don't and live in a "bad" neighborhood or SD... because the "good" and supposedly "middle income" neighborhoods are becoming .. well unaffordable. We all live and strive to live in the same manner that our parents raised us or better. I'm not asking to be wealthy and be able to afford a Roslyn house here on LI.. but I would like to live in a neighborhood that I grew up in .. or one very similar. I'm a hard working person and LI, because of it's unaffordability..is almost making it so that I will be taking stpes BACKWARDS because of the cost of living. Most of the blue collar middle class are feeling that way themselves, hence we are all looking for options that allow us to live the way we are used to living without killing ourselves an without going from middle class to low income on LI. I can have the same lifestyle.. good schools, nice house, nice neighborhood someplace OTHER than LI.

Of course there are tons of people living that life who have just never even tried either, given up way too early and never looked back.....looking to stretch out a free ride as long as they can, but I'm sure there's just as many useless rich kids who are waiting for their parents to die so they can be set with life insurance and selling-the-house money after their trust funds went up their noses...which one is worse? I find it very hard to criticize people who came into this world with a raw deal. I don't want you or anyone else (with the means) to send your kids there, I wouldn't...obviously the environment is a huge disadvantage but it shouldn't be and it doesn't have to be. With better planning they could turn that whole community around in a matter of years, but so far it's been easier to sweep it under the rug.

Is any of this making sense? I hate to come across as a bleeding heart who has a huge boner for peace and harmony and understanding and all that other BS cuz I don't....I'll swear by tons of stereotypes, but I think classifying people a certain way just because they're poor and their houses don't look as nice as yours isn't a good situation for anyone.
The topic has kind of taken a life of it's own here and moved out into the core of what i was saying.. and that is LI is becoming unaffordable for the middle class person to live. The cost of livign is pushing us out of the neighborhoods that we grew up in because it's becoming insanely ridiculous to maintan. No one wants to take a step down and live in a Roosevelt, Wyandanch , Freeport SD when they spent their lives in a much better school and area (and by better I'm not taking about the upper end SD.. I'm talking about the Levittown, Island Trees, etc).

You are right about how the whole cycles need tobe broken, but that is a totally different subject and topic.. and I'm with you on that..

Also important to note....we may view Roosevelt as the ghetto, but compared to most "ghettos" it's basically Disney Land and NOT as bad as the rumors. This is still Long Island and still the safest region in the USA, so at the very least Roosevelt should be proud of it's status as the country club of suburban ghettos.

And the people that are living or grew up there aer probably feeling squeezed outby the ever increasing taxes and expenses as well and the "affordable" becomes the "unaffordable"

[sean sean sean sean]

Tristan's Mutha - I know this is waaay off the original topic now, I got started on something and just kept going with it....wasn't even so much replying to you as throwing stuff out there for whoever wants to read it. I completely agree with your view on the middle class being pushed out (or re-defined), I think anybody who is being realistic can see that.

[dogcrazy]

I completely agree with you as well.Last year i was planning on moving to NC.But its too damn hot for me.If i had to move anywhere it would be upstate NY.Fell in love when I was there.I am going to try to buy a home here pending on a possible job i might be getting.If i dont get that job then i dont know how i am going to live here anymore.I also wonder if i will be able to afford to have a child here.Like Tristansmom said both parents have to work these days and i know childcare costs are through the roof.And in my opinion i dont see what is so amazing about Long Island.Yeah we have a lot of beaches but come on so does the rest of the country.You all want to know what my raise at work was this year? 75 CENTS.It wouldnt be so hard if they gave everyone actual raises to keep up with the rising costs to live here.And you definately DONT get what you pay for on Long Island.You could buy a home in the ghetto for 280k, but im sure most of you wouldnt want to live next door to gang members drug dealers and all of those illegal immigrants.Im born and raised here and to me its just not worth the stress and limiting yourself and your family just to barely make ends meet and have NO money on the side.

[NYNewbie]

I can't respond to all the replies, but I will dispel a few things people have assumed about me.

1) I am not some pollyanaish flake living with a large salary.
2) I have lived in four very different places in 10 years, so I've been around and owned in three.
3) I am sensitive to the problems people face, but don't change the subject. Many of you are blaming an Island for your problems. There are ways of living anywhere. If you wanted to remain on Long Island you could buy a condo in Nesconset for a reasonable sum. There are options. Can't live where you want? Neither can I.

So, some have also developed this impression that I have my flaky head buried in my backside. I live in East Northport. One, with little seeming knowledge of the area, asked if I lived in the million dollar home area. The answer to that is no. I live in a house that I purchased for around $380,000. I had a 20% down payment. Moved in, and the cesspool flooded into the house (feces and soap -- awesome). This gives you some sense of the condition of the house. How do I get by on my modest salary?

1) My wife and I don't use cellphones. You may, and that's alright. You probably feel like you deserve them, because people today are convinced they deserve everything.

2) We don't have cable. We didn't have it in Florida when we were busy saving hand over fist so we could move the heck out. We don't watch much TV, and our son (who isn't warehoused in daycare, as some implied) doesn't watch TV.

3) Our grocery bill is $85.00 per week. We make our food, and eat out at a nearby pizza-place once a week for $20.00.

4) We have two cars, both paid off. One bought used and one bought used 7 years ago. Our auto insurance is $118.00/mo, which is very inexpensive. This is because our credit scores are above 800 and we never make any claims.

5) Our credit scores are low because we don't rotate debt. We pay everything off and live within our means.

6) Low credit score landed us a low 30 year fixed interest rate. Closing costs, not counting taxes, came to about $3000 because we shopped around for a competitive lender.

We haven't bought new furniture since we purchased a TV cabinet about years ago, which we paid for cash up-front.

In the meantime, I'm putting in a large amount of physical work tending to my own Piece of Crud house, using the library to learn how to fix things.

Now, I could have stayed in Florida. I thank God every day I'm not there. And, though my house was much nicer there, this one is a sound investment.

I love it here, and no one paid me to say that. In fact, come tax time, I'll be paying in order to make that so.

[dogcrazy]

Youre entitled to your own opinion.Ive lived here all my life and have watched it changed.I personally want out.I dont see an easy future ahead of me if i want to start a family.And i dont want to live pay check to pay check and have no money aside to enjoy life.I am currently renting a home for about 1700 a month,paying a car payment that is about 300 a month(used car too)tv and phone is around 200 a month, groceries maybe around 250-300 a month and might i add we get store brand everything and use coupons.Add on other expenses.Got rid of the cell phones to save some money,cant remember the last time i bought myself a shirt or anything.Ive lived in apartments my whole life and i would never waste 400k to live in a small ****ty condo.And it is nearly impossible to get a mortgage now a days.Most people do not have 30k cash to put down.My credit score is in the 7.5-8 range maybe a little more since the last time i checked and i STILL cant get a loan.Besides,why buy a home for 350k that needs EVERYTHING done to it.Dont get me wrong,there are a lot of homes out there now going for 350-400k that are nice that the owners are just reducing the price to get a sale because nothing is moving because no one can get the loan or the outrageous downpayment.Long island is so overcrowded and overdeveloped it makes me sick.There is absolutely no land left here.We cannot fit everyone in the world here.So much traffic and people drive like maniacs.I love NYC,i really do,but i rarely go there.So for me there really isnt any desire for LI anymore.It just doesnt feel like home anymore.

[nbres]

TristansMommy:

I challenge you to see if you would be able to afford your home that you live in at the market price today.

I bought my first home in 2000. Rented for a number of years and saved the 20% down payment. If I had to I could, and I make under $100,000. I just would put down a larger down payment.

I rule out buying a home in a crack neighborhood.. I don't live in a posh neighborhood either.. I live in Levittown. Sorry..

Who said you had to. All I'm saying is is that there are affordable homes all over Long Island, but if you don't like the neighborhood then price doesn't matter. You bought in Levittown because that was what you were willing to pay for and/or could afford.

I'm not going to send my kid to school where there are kids that do drugs, deal drugs and form gangs and live in violence.

Every district has kids doing drugs. The wealthier districts may have even more drug problems.

and i can't believe your lumping N.B as an affordable area

.

Affordable is an understatement - it is a real bargain. You should have bought here in North Babylon where you grew up. For $350,000 you could buy a nice split ranch or high ranch in the Sunset City area - you know its a great neighborhood. The taxes are lower here than in Levittown and the homes are bigger.

what makes those school districts "better" than other Schools.. it's the programs that they have that are OUTSIDE the curriculum.. because certain schools have more money than others.. THAT'S WHERE TEH DIFFERENCE IS. Not in the curriculum.. because EVERY SD uses the same curriculum.

What programs are you speaking of specifically?

when you are in a SD where your child is surrounded by kids who are doing drugs,have parents doing drugs or have paretns that do not hold the same values as you, your kids become influenced by those students.. so you want your child to be in a school and in a community with people that hold similar values (and this has nothing to do with color) I think you know what I mean.

What you describe could easily be any number of so called elite districts. If you have a working class income do you really want to subject your children to the abuse they will meet everyday in a so called "better" district that is full of upper middle class snobs. The values of today's upper middle class and upper class are so often as decadent as the lower class.

My mortage is under $400K (I bought my house for $350.. a fixer upper I had to refi and pull more money out of to fix) is $3300/month.

How much did you put down? From the numbers you give it sounds like you didn't put down the traditional 20%, but instead put down nothing. Does that $3300/month include property taxes? Even if your taxes were $1000/month and your mortgage payment was $2300 at lets say 6%, then the amount you borrowed is around $400,000 through your refinance. Did you borrow more than the house was worth? That is never a good thing to do, especially now. In essence you have zero equity. ???

[nbres]

1) My wife and I don't use cellphones. You may, and that's alright. You probably feel like you deserve them, because people today are convinced they deserve everything.

2) We don't have cable. We didn't have it in Florida when we were busy saving hand over fist so we could move the heck out. We don't watch much TV, and our son (who isn't warehoused in daycare, as some implied) doesn't watch TV.

3) Our grocery bill is $85.00 per week. We make our food, and eat out at a nearby pizza-place once a week for $20.00.

4) We have two cars, both paid off. One bought used and one bought used 7 years ago. Our auto insurance is $118.00/mo, which is very inexpensive. This is because our credit scores are above 800 and we never make any claims.

5) Our credit scores are low because we don't rotate debt. We pay everything off and live within our means.

6) Low credit score landed us a low 30 year fixed interest rate. Closing costs, not counting taxes, came to about $3000 because we shopped around for a competitive lender.

We haven't bought new furniture since we purchased a TV cabinet about years ago, which we paid for cash up-front.

In the meantime, I'm putting in a large amount of physical work tending to my own Piece of Crud house, using the library to learn how to fix things.

Sounds like the good old America to me. The America of hardworkers and doers. Struggle, self-reliance and sacrifice is what is needed. Yeah...I know...It sounds hard...but that is the reality of life. In the end you will be proud of your accomplishments.

Good Luck NYNewbie.

[nbres]

Struggle, self-reliance and sacrifice is what is needed. Yeah...I know...It sounds hard...but that is the reality of life.

This was meant for all the slackers out there.

[dogcrazy]

it is not about "slacking'We pay out the ass and what are we getting?

[NYC2RDU]

Originally Posted by NYNewbie

I can't respond to all the replies

..... I am sensitive to the problems people face, but don't change the subject.

..... I live in East Northport. One, with little seeming knowledge of the area, asked if I lived in the million dollar home area.

..... I live in a house that I purchased for around $380,000. I had a 20% down payment.

.... My wife and I don't use cellphones. You may, and that's alright. You probably feel like you deserve them, because people today are convinced they deserve everything.

..... Our grocery bill is $85.00 per week. We make our food, and eat out at a nearby pizza-place once a week for $20.00.

People challenge your Pollyanna rhetoric (yes, it is Pollyanna-ish) with hard questions and you deflect. In my opinion you've done a classically poor job of answering any questions directed at you by tossing out irrelevant or unsubstantiated information.

For example, you can't say you're sensitive to people's problems when you fail to acknowledge they exist. Based on the sum total of your posts the problem isn't the escalating cost of living on Long Island but rather peoples general air of entitlement. That's dismissive and rude, particularly to those who have sacrificed and are still struggling.

You accuse me of having seemingly little knowledge of East Northport without explaining why you'd think that. There are million dollar homes throughout East Northport with a particular concentration of same right behind Elwood Shopping Center. Check with Tom Moser, he'll more then happily verify their existence. I lived in the area for a dozen years; have you lived their for much more then a dozen weeks? And you still haven't shared with anyone which area of the neighborhood you're re-gentrifying.

Lastly on the financial front I'm curious about your numbers. You must have qualified for a mortgage rate at least a half-point lower then anything being offered anywhere I looked in the Spring. Because in order to acquire a mortgage of over $300k with property taxes around $6k, homeowners insurance for an estimated $1k and still have a monthly payment of $2400 the rate would've needed to be below 6.00%. Considering closing costs of only $3k (did that include your attorney?) I'm assuming you didn't buy points either. I want to be clear, I'm not accusing you of lying. I just can't make the numbers work based on your claims and what the rates were back in the Spring when I shopped for mortgages.

I don't really know your finances much like you don't know mine or anyone else's who you've insulted along the way when you make a statement like "because people today are convinced they deserve everything". However the decisions you so proudly boast of in your post reek of someone supporting a tight budget. I understand not having cable television or cell phone service as life choices. But I have a difficult time understanding a weekly grocery budget of $85 for a family of three. That seems more weird then frugal. And if that number or anything close to it is required in order to make ends meet then you're simply living on borrowed time.