Avoid Long Island If You Can (New York, Lancaster: mortgage, attorney, equity)

[mrstriplem]

Just have to chime in...I agree and disagree with some of these comments...I do agree with much of what Tristans Mommy is saying...because been there done that...it is very different when you have small children and only started out buying your home within the past few years...when the housing prices and taxes became out of control. My husband and I bought our home in 2003, a Levitt house, in Wantagh, but Levittown School District. We put 10% down...and saved some extra money for fixing up the home...we did not buy a great house, but it was not bad either. We did save money for expected things...like replacing the oil burner...(which we knew when we purchased the home) and minor home repairs. Our property taxes started at $6400 with star exemption.

WHAT WE DID NOT EXPECT was...OUr taxes increasing each year by at least $400plus (my husbands cost of living raise did not cover the increases by any means) taxes when we sold our property this past April were $8700 (with star)**we changed nothing structurally to our home, these are just regular increases**, electrical problems, structural problems..unforseen by home inspector, oil (my oil started at approx. $1.85/gall, when we sold last April we were paying $2.90) and gas prices greatly increasing, LIPA with their astronimical power supply charges...my electric bill started at $95/mo...ended in $155/mo last April on budget with LIPA **we had energy star applicances and a new oil burner well**...and the list goes on.

And me and my husband are definitely not "slackers" by any means...he works a physically demanding job, 6 days a week, worked at least 10hours overtime every week, I worked 2 part time jobs (one from home) and full time taking care of our son...I budgeted our grocery/monthly cash flow...and he has not taken a full weeks vacation since our honeymoon (about 4 years)...ultimately it was not enough...The major problem with LI is that the yearly pay increases, cannot possibly keep up with increases of the yearly cost of living here. My husband will never be able to retire here because it is just impossible to put money away for retirement...there is none left at the end of the month.

Thankfully we have sold our house, pulled what little equity we had in it...and are leaving...We cannot wait around 10, 15 20 years...hoping for things to change here...my son is more important that that...he needs a better shot at a better future...believe me, we looked at buying another house in more "affordable" areas of LI...but in the end...it really is not worth it...

I grew up here and I love certain things about LI...but not enough to stay here...the cons outweigh the pros...my grandparents came here from the city for a better life back in the 50's...we are now moving our families on...to do the same...

[nbres]

mrstriplem said,

I grew up here and I love certain things about LI...but not enough to stay here...the cons outweigh the pros...my grandparents came here from the city for a better life back in the 50's...we are now moving our families on...to do the same...

I understand. You are making a rational choice. The history of America has always been one of people moving and seeking out better places. Your grandparents came out to Long Island when this place seemed like a paradise compared to NYC in the 1950s. Now that Long Island has matured and changed it is no longer that same suburban paradise. The island is changing, for better or worse I don't know. However, if you believe that life would be better some where else then go for it. Don't look back, don't second guess yourself, just do it.

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by mrstriplem

Just have to chime in...I agree and disagree with some of these comments...I do agree with much of what Tristans Mommy is saying...because been there done that...it is very different when you have small children and only started out buying your home within the past few years...when the housing prices and taxes became out of control. My husband and I bought our home in 2003, a Levitt house, in Wantagh, but Levittown School District. We put 10% down...and saved some extra money for fixing up the home...we did not buy a great house, but it was not bad either. We did save money for expected things...like replacing the oil burner...(which we knew when we purchased the home) and minor home repairs. Our property taxes started at $6400 with star exemption.

WHAT WE DID NOT EXPECT was...OUr taxes increasing each year by at least $400plus (my husbands cost of living raise did not cover the increases by any means) taxes when we sold our property this past April were $8700 (with star)**we changed nothing structurally to our home, these are just regular increases**, electrical problems, structural problems..unforseen by home inspector, oil (my oil started at approx. $1.85/gall, when we sold last April we were paying $2.90) and gas prices greatly increasing, LIPA with their astronimical power supply charges...my electric bill started at $95/mo...ended in $155/mo last April on budget with LIPA **we had energy star applicances and a new oil burner well**...and the list goes on.

And me and my husband are definitely not "slackers" by any means...he works a physically demanding job, 6 days a week, worked at least 10hours overtime every week, I worked 2 part time jobs (one from home) and full time taking care of our son...I budgeted our grocery/monthly cash flow...and he has not taken a full weeks vacation since our honeymoon (about 4 years)...ultimately it was not enough...The major problem with LI is that the yearly pay increases, cannot possibly keep up with increases of the yearly cost of living here. My husband will never be able to retire here because it is just impossible to put money away for retirement...there is none left at the end of the month.

Thankfully we have sold our house, pulled what little equity we had in it...and are leaving...We cannot wait around 10, 15 20 years...hoping for things to change here...my son is more important that that...he needs a better shot at a better future...believe me, we looked at buying another house in more "affordable" areas of LI...but in the end...it really is not worth it...

I grew up here and I love certain things about LI...but not enough to stay here...the cons outweigh the pros...my grandparents came here from the city for a better life back in the 50's...we are now moving our families on...to do the same...

Awesome post.. you are in the same position that I am in and a lot of other people. Where did you decide to move to, by the way?

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by NYNewbie

I can't respond to all the replies, but I will dispel a few things people have assumed about me.

1) I am not some pollyanaish flake living with a large salary.
2) I have lived in four very different places in 10 years, so I've been around and owned in three.
3) I am sensitive to the problems people face, but don't change the subject. Many of you are blaming an Island for your problems. There are ways of living anywhere. If you wanted to remain on Long Island you could buy a condo in Nesconset for a reasonable sum. There are options. Can't live where you want? Neither can I. Nesconset.. are you for real..LOL. .yeah.... and what if your work is not in Nesconset but in NYC.. or in Nassau County.. are you aware of all the traffic yet? You can go live in Riverhead too.. that is not realistic .. you might as well go upstate and commute if you're going to live out there.. gee.. I can also live in Roosevelt or Wyandanch too.. in a really horrible neighborhood with a lot of violence and crime.. but then again.. I would be paying a different price..

So, some have also developed this impression that I have my flaky head buried in my backside. I live in East Northport. One, with little seeming knowledge of the area, asked if I lived in the million dollar home area. The answer to that is no. I live in a house that I purchased for around $380,000. I had a 20% down payment. Moved in, and the cesspool flooded into the house (feces and soap -- awesome). This gives you some sense of the condition of the house. How do I get by on my modest salary?

1) My wife and I don't use cellphones. You may, and that's alright. You probably feel like you deserve them, because people today are convinced they deserve everything.

Well.. that's well and good.. however I NEED a cell phone? WHy.. well, my work for one and my husbands work. Also,it's the ONLY way my husband and I can keep in touch with our busy schedules because he's always working. If you wnat to throw smoke signals to communicate or stop and pull over and use a pay phone go right ahead.. but what happens when your in an accident or something happens and you need to contact someone. What if your wife is out with the kids and gets a flat tire in the rain!

2) We don't have cable. We didn't have it in Florida when we were busy saving hand over fist so we could move the heck out. We don't watch much TV, and our son (who isn't warehoused in daycare, as some implied) doesn't watch TV.

So..you're basically saying that you have to give up pleasures to live here.. no thank you. I can go someplace where I can ENJOY the things I enjoy.. isn't it ridiculous that in order to live in this overpriced Island you have to ..well give up so much.. there are a lot of places I can live where I can havea bigger, nicer house on more land AND.. enjoy cable and use my cell phone (which I DO need for my work)

3) Our grocery bill is $85.00 per week. We make our food, and eat out at a nearby pizza-place once a week for $20.00.

That is a great and novel idea.. but too bad that most people that live on LI have two parents that have to work in addition to running their children to their sporting events so on and so forth, and sometimes it's not so easy to cook yourself.. you have to go out and eat. AND.. groceries are cheap when you can buy fresh. .. the pre-packaged food that you throw in the crock-pot or skillet are a lot more expensive and the better alternatives for most families with TWO working parents. Think about it. .. ONe station has taken the initiative to move their News program up to 7pm? Why.. because everyone works so damned much to pay all their bills here that they don't get to eat or sit down till 7pm! Gone are the days where dinner was at 5!

4) We have two cars, both paid off. One bought used and one bought used 7 years ago. Our auto insurance is $118.00/mo, which is very inexpensive. This is because our credit scores are above 800 and we never make any claims.

I had two cars that were paid off too.. but guess what..one got old.. and I didn't have the cash (becaause too much bills, and can't save any money) and so I had to buy a reliable family car with an auto loan.. sorry.. need my vehicle for Dr. appts, shopping and when I do have to go out and work (as I work from home but also out in the field). But, my husbands car is owned outright.. thank god. Yup.. I've had claims..but then live on LI for a very long time with a lot of knucklehead drivers.. you may eventually have one.. then kiss your low rate goodbye.

5) Our credit scores are low because we don't rotate debt. We pay everything off and live within our means.

6) Low credit score landed us a low 30 year fixed interest rate. Closing costs, not counting taxes, came to bout $3000 because we shopped around for a competitive lender.

We haven't bought new furniture since we purchased a TV cabinet about years ago, which we paid for cash up-front.
I don't have any new furniture either. Most is bought second hand. I did purchase my bedroom furntire after I got marreid about 4 years ago.

In the meantime, I'm putting in a large amount of physical work tending to my own Piece of Crud house, using the library to learn how to fix things.

Now, I could have stayed in Florida. I thank God every day I'm not there. And, though my house was much nicer there, this one is a sound investment.

I love it here, and no one paid me to say that. In fact, come tax time, I'll be paying in order to make that so.

Again.. you are still so new to LI. Wait.. watch how your taxes are going to rise and rise and rise. Read a later post by another person on this board who's watched her property taxes rise at an average rate of $400 /year.. but her salary at a 75 cent raise! Also.. LIPA gets more and more expensive and so on and so forth. And apparently Florida has a cost of living problem that isn't quite up to the same as LI, and a lot of people NOT happy in Florida. LI has a lot of wonderful thigns to offer.. and maybe you'll be fine, but wait till your kids grow up.. if it continues this way they won't be able to raise their families here.. and as the cost of livign keeps increasing at the rate that it is..you will see your savings dwindle.. both for your kids college and your retirement. You're off to a good start.. but give it some time.. you'll soon see what us born and raised here LI'rs are speaking of.

You lived someplace else before coming to LI. You lived someplace that allowed you to afford to save, because it didn't cost as much to live there as it does here. So.. good for you. I've been here my entire life and can never get ahead because everythign is so expensive. I certainl don't live beyond my means.. and I don't expect to. I just expect to be able to not have to worry that I'm a hiccup away from being out on my butt. You'll soon see that IF you ever fall behind on LI.. it's going to be tough. Great that you can liev without TV.. but sad that you'd have to give up stuff like that in order to live here.. wait till your kids are older and want the things all kids want.. then what will you do?

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by nbres

TristansMommy:



I bought my first home in 2000. Rented for a number of years and saved the 20% down payment. If I had to I could, and I make under $100,000. I just would put down a larger down payment.

You bought before the boom in the market.. so it's slightly different for you.


Who said you had to. All I'm saying is is that there are affordable homes all over Long Island, but if you don't like the neighborhood then price doesn't matter. You bought in Levittown because that was what you were willing to pay for and/or could afford.

Well.. you said taht there are affordable homes..but those affordable homes under $300K are in those crack head neighborhoods.. sorry.. not going backwards and living in a ghetto so that LI is "affordable" . Then I'm paying the financial price as well as a safety price.. again.. not affordable.


Every district has kids doing drugs. The wealthier districts may have even more drug problems.

I'm not so nieve to think that they don't.. but if you don't understand the difference between say a Wyandanch vs. a N.Babylon SD I really can't sit here and type it all....

Affordable is an understatement - it is a real bargain. You should have bought here in North Babylon where you grew up. For $350,000 you could buy a nice split ranch or high ranch in the Sunset City area - you know its a great neighborhood. The taxes are lower here than in Levittown and the homes are bigger.
Yeah.I could have bought a bigger house for the same money I paid for my Levitt house.. but not much bigger. I'm in Ilsand Trees and so the taxes here aren't as high as Levittown, but Suffolk on average has higher taxes than Nassau but lower house prices.. nassau higher hosue prices, slightly lower taxes.. so in the end it evens out.


What programs are you speaking of specifically?
There are a number of different cultural after school and sports programs that the districts with more money can offer. When a SD has no money the first thing they cut is sports and all the language lab programs etc. Just go look at the different districts like roslyn, E. Williston and compare them to Wyandanch and Roosevelt and you'll see for yourself.


What you describe could easily be any number of so called elite districts. If you have a working class income do you really want to subject your children to the abuse they will meet everyday in a so called "better" district that is full of upper middle class snobs. The values of today's upper middle class and upper class are so often as decadent as the lower class.

Oh come on.. again.. if you don't know the difference between a Wyandanch and N. Babylon SD..well I can't sit here and explain it.

How much did you put down? From the numbers you give it sounds like you didn't put down the traditional 20%, but instead put down nothing. Does that $3300/month include property taxes? Even if your taxes were $1000/month and your mortgage payment was $2300 at lets say 6%, then the amount you borrowed is around $400,000 through your refinance. Did you borrow more than the house was worth? That is never a good thing to do, especially now. In essence you have zero equity. ???

I put down $20% of a $390 purchase price (it was really $350.. we upped the price to cover costs). At that time the house was appraised at $420. Then I refi'd a year later because i needed money to finisn more repairs on my fixer upper (which my hubby did himself with a few hired hands to help because he also had to work full time). When I refi'd it was worth $450 and teh mortgage was $400,900. But of course we lost equity due to the change in the market. That payment includes my property taxes AND my homeowners insurance. My rate is pretty decent.

bottom line.. LI has a lot to offer.. but the price I'm paying is that i have no room for saving money for mine or my kids future. It's too stressfull. Watching my taxes increase every year as well as other costs.. it's just time to get out.

[dogcrazy]

See my problem is is that my fiancee does not want to move off of Long Island.His whole family is here,so i understand that.But im just so worried for our future.If everything keeps going the way it has been what am i going to do?Sell my home and move into an apartment?Thats something i will not do.I dont have any children yet but i do want to one day and ive read on these boards how much it costs people weekly.Its outrageous.And i wouldnt want to have to stick my child with someone.I want to be around and watch them grow up not be at a ****ty paying job all day.I mean,can they really continue to raise the property taxes and all without paying people more?What are we all supposed to do?Im just glad to know i am not the only one who feels this way.

[nbres]

TristansMommy:

When I refi'd it was worth $450 and teh mortgage was $400,900.

Just curious. What would you do if the debt on your home exceeds the homes value. When you go to sell you might owe the bank money. In any event, it sounds like you only have about $20,000 now in equity and as you stated very little in savings. How do you plan to move off LI?

it's just time to get out.

Don't be foolish, don't jump from the frying pan into the fire. You are in a nice area with good schools. So unless your husband and you both have great jobs lined up already, I would advise against moving until you are on financially sound ground.

As far as the school thing goes from the other post; how does NB compare to Island Trees in your view?

[TristansMommy]

I posted this on another site and I wanted to post it here. I feel compelled because I think you're missing my point.. and thinking that I feel that LI is horrible or a hell hole..

L.I has been my home for my 33 years. I truly believe it is a wonderful place to live. There is lots to do and so many conveniences at your fingertips. There are also very good schools.

There is a lot I WILL miss about LI, certainly. How could I not? Will I move and miss some of the things that LI will have to offer that other places do not? Certainly. I will also miss it because it is where I made so many memories with my family and my friends.

BUT.... now that I am raising a family of my own I feel that it's time to move on to another place. LI is extremely expensive.. there is no ifs ands or buts about it. WE pay more for car insrance, health insurance and one of the highest taxes in the country and so on and so forth. Being a young family , it is a struggle. Most middle class young families have to have both parents working in order to survive. Can I survive on LI... most certainly.. but at what cost? As long as I live here I will have no financial security because the cost of living here is eating up every penny that comes in. That leaves no extras for emergencies. That puts a lot of stress not only on the individual but the marriage and the family. My husband, self employed, will not take a day off out of fear that if he'll miss a day he won't be able to pay the next bill. I worry about the fact that our savings account is 0, and should my husband fall ill, then he will have NO choice but to stop working and then we'll lose it all. Once you fall behind here on LI, you just can't catch up. I don't want to spend the rest of our lives treading water. That, and what happens when my kids want to go to college and I have no money saved? Or we get to retirement age and can no longer work and SS isn't available. Besides, we all know you can't live on SS alone at these prices!

Is this the life for someone else? Perhaps. Are there middle income families that are going through the same things.. certainly.. but perhaps they have other motivations for staying or even coming to LI that to them living a life like the above is fine with them. If my family were all still here, I wouldn't consider moving away.. BUT.. with no family left here I see no reason to struggle every day and live by a thread..constantly worried that if there's a hiccup we're out on our butts! Rather, I imagine living in a community that is friendly (because LI'rs are all so busy workign to pay the bills they don't have time to get to know the neighbors or smell the roses), with good schools and a cost of living that allows for me to save money for the future and for any woops that may occurr.

That being said.. I don't think you can't argue that life on LI is tough financially.
L.I has been my home for my 33 years. I truly believe it is a wonderful place to live. There is lots to do and so many conveniences at your fingertips. There are also very good schools.

There is a lot I WILL miss about LI, certainly. How could I not? Will I move and miss some of the things that LI will have to offer that other places do not? Certainly. I will also miss it because it is where I made so many memories with my family and my friends.

BUT.... now that I am raising a family of my own I feel that it's time to move on to another place. LI is extremely expensive.. there is no ifs ands or buts about it. WE pay more for car insrance, health insurance and one of the highest taxes in the country and so on and so forth. Being a young family , it is a struggle. Most middle class young families have to have both parents working in order to survive. Can I survive on LI... most certainly.. but at what cost? As long as I live here I will have no financial security because the cost of living here is eating up every penny that comes in. That leaves no extras for emergencies. That puts a lot of stress not only on the individual but the marriage and the family. My husband, self employed, will not take a day off out of fear that if he'll miss a day he won't be able to pay the next bill. I worry about the fact that our savings account is 0, and should my husband fall ill, then he will have NO choice but to stop working and then we'll lose it all. Once you fall behind here on LI, you just can't catch up. I don't want to spend the rest of our lives treading water. That, and what happens when my kids want to go to college and I have no money saved? Or we get to retirement age and can no longer work and SS isn't available. Besides, we all know you can't live on SS alone at these prices!

Is this the life for someone else? Perhaps. Are there middle income families that are going through the same things.. certainly.. but perhaps they have other motivations for staying or even coming to LI that to them living a life like the above is fine with them. If my family were all still here, I wouldn't consider moving away.. BUT.. with no family left here I see no reason to struggle every day and live by a thread..constantly worried that if there's a hiccup we're out on our butts! Rather, I imagine living in a community that is friendly (because LI'rs are all so busy workign to pay the bills they don't have time to get to know the neighbors or smell the roses), with good schools and a cost of living that allows for me to save money for the future and for any woops that may occurr.

That being said.. I don't think you can't argue that life on LI is tough financially.

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by nbres

TristansMommy:



Just curious. What would you do if the debt on your home exceeds the homes value. When you go to sell you might owe the bank money. In any event, it sounds like you only have about $20,000 now in equity and as you stated very little in savings. How do you plan to move off LI?

Actually I don't even have $20 in equity.. maybe 10K. And Im not planning on moving now. I'm in the starting phases. I hope the market evens out in 2 years. I guess we're praying for a miracle and are just going to bite the bullet and do what we need to do. We may take a loss, but in the long run it will be worth it. Our salaries will remain the same, but our cost of living will decrease by 50%. I don't know how we are going to do it without any savings.. but we're workign on it. I guess work harder.. if that's even possible since we are at the brink already. We would have been gone a long time ago BUT thet expensive cost of living has made it a little prohibitive to getting out.

Don't be foolish, don't jump from the frying pan into the fire. You are in a nice area with good schools. So unless your husband and you both have great jobs lined up already, I would advise against moving until you are on financially sound ground.

We're self employed and can do what we do outside of LI and will continue to. Our income won't change.. just our expenses will be cut in 1/2. Believe me.. I know exactly what I'm getting into it. I have not entered this decision lightly and without thought. The thought proccess for us is still continuing.

As far as the school thing goes from the other post; how does NB compare to Island Trees in your view?

I haven't run down the difference between the two in exacts but, they are about the same.. and they are both similar types of neighborhoods.. blue collar, middle class. I think Ilsand trees is slightly smaller with a lower student to teacher ratio.. but i have to look and compare side by side. If there is a difference it will only be ever so slight and I feel that my children woudl ahve a good education here.. it's the Wyndanch's and the Roosevelt type SD's that I would avoid.

[NY62]

Tristansmommy , Hang in there kid. You are not alone in your struggles. Most people will not open up , but they feel the same as you. The thing is though most people and you are included can "afford" to live hear. But you will give up to much just to get by. and you will never save a dime. This has been the case for a long long time here on the island. people didnt really save , they sold there homes and used the equity to retire somewhere cheeper. The problem now is with the low interest rates most people refied . quick easy cheap money everyone thought, well the tide has turned and the houses stopped going way up, I am not saying they are going down that much,they just stopped climbing. Now there are alot of people that should be sitting pretty but they are not
, instead of 100k mortgages they have 300k mortgages or better. Who here honestly thinks they will pay off that 300 to 400k mortgage? heck I bet half of us dont even live that long. So you go tristansmommy and do what you feel is best for your family because you are correct LI is a great place but very expensive across the board , but like anything else, remember you get what you pay for. Good luck to you.