Avoid Long Island If You Can (Hempstead, Freeport: mortgage, environment, relocate)

[NYC2RDU]

Originally Posted by Keeper

Please get back on topic..

Be civil, no personal attacks, flaming, or insults. We may attack ideas (politely) but we do no attack the speaker of the idea. Be careful with your words, there is a point where being direct crosses a line into blunt, in-your-face hostility. Please, report bad posts instead of engaging in flame wars on the boards.

If you disagree with something, say so, but explain WHY.

I'm trying Keeper, really I am.

Originally Posted by NYNewbie

You suggested that I was a hypocrite because I live in East Northport in a house you suggested must be worth a million .... while suggesting others regentrify.

.... your claim is based on a faulty assumption

.... Now, let's say that some unfortunate soul bought a house at the whopping $150,000 a house cost in East Northport (ostensibly) 20 years ago (though I've been told otherwise by a Fireman down the street who has been in my area of town for about 25 years). The payment on that house is about, at most, $1200/month. Said person is nearly 10 years from paying it off. This person is complaining about the cost of Long Island? Seems to me that under these circumstances - given the islands median incomes near $60,000/year, that person should be living well.


.... Now, given the sacrifices I've made to live here I have little sympathy for anyone who has drained his/her house of equity and rotated the average $8000/month on a credit card (as the average person in the US has). If they are going to turn around and blame their plight on taxes, I say "Move away!" It isn't the fault of taxes, but a failure to be responsible.

.... the parents made a stupid decision.

.... To turn and blame it on the cost of public services is typical GOP propaganda.

For openers I'd like to clarify on the definition of ad hominem which is "marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made". All of my posts address contentions made.

Your posts are hypocritical as you challenge those who are struggling to move into undesirable neighborhoods and aid their gentrification as a way of achieving financial stability in their own lives. You however bought into a neighborhood that is staunch upper middle class despite yourself being on a strict budget (your assertion, not mine). "Do as I say, not as I do" is a cliché directly associated with hypocrisy. Also, I never assumed you bought a million dollar home. I asked which part of East Northport you thought you were helping re-gentrify, the sections with million dollar homes or those in the Elwood School district.

Your carefully detailed depiction of someone who bought a home on Long Island more then a generation ago is accurate. It doesn't however likely reflect on the majority of people who have posted in this thread and are struggling financially. Your example does nothing to explain why potential buyers shouldn't avoid Long Island if they can.

You're being presumptuous in assuming that people who are struggling financially are doing so because of fiscal irresponsibility. Most of the people I know who are struggling on Long Island are being clobbered by non-discretionary expenses (e.g. taxes, utilities, home owners insurance etc.). If you could substantiate why you routinely accuse people of living above their means as a way of explaining away their financial problems I'll leave you alone. But you go on to call these scared and desperate souls "stupid people" because you're assuming without substantiation or a credible history of Long Island home ownership that they acquired their homes with exotic mortgage products.

This ongoing back-and-forth between you and I isn't personal; I'm simply not willing to allow you to marginalize those at the end of their financial ropes. You've routinely accused the people venting in this forum of being irresponsible, feeling entitled or simply not being willing to make the necessary sacrifices to make it work on Long Island. As someone who knows first hand how wrong that logic is I refuse to simply let you discharge your Long Island Pollyannaish rhetoric freely.

Tell me, beyond great public parks and libraries, why someone with limited financial means (e.g. $90k in annual income with $50k for a down payment and nothing else) should not avoid Long Island if they can. Because you can't live in those parks if you lose your home and you can't eat books.

[NY62]

Originally Posted by Diane Giam

I think you misunderstood me on a few things. Hendersonville/Gallaton are flat, they are North of Nashville. I live south of Nashville/ Brentwood are. It's real hilly by me, so we have no tornados, threats, but none.
Pricing my me isn't that low, but I sold a house in Jersey half this size 4200 sq ft, and paid $30,000 less. Taxes $3500 a year, which I consider low on a house this size. My house that I bought in Mt Sinai in 1976 for $32,990 and it was about 2000sq is going for what I paid.
I have never been to whitehouse but I've been to lots of places in the country and they had lights and sidewalks. I like to explore, even saw the Amish in Etridge, TN.
I love country music! Check out this song-It's so Funny-
.'Online' Video - Brad Paisley - AOL Music
Diane

Funny video.LOL I have seen it on cmt. Dont want to argue but be carefull with the tornado thing anyway, my friends mom lived in gallatin for 15 years before that one went through and she used to say the same thing you are. Anyway how do you like it? my crazy son is thinking of moving there . he says florida is to expensive for the money they get paid. He will probably hit every state before he is setteled down.LOL What are home prices doing there? are they going up ? staying the same? or going down? I would love a place on old hickory lake.

[NYNewbie]

Those arguing that people should avoid Long Island have the burden of proof here.

Those supporting the main idea of the thread seem to have retreated to simply arguing that if you can't afford to live here, then don't live here. That is tautological however. Who would disagree with that?

If, on the other hand, they are arguing that if you can afford to live here you shouldn't live here, then some reason to believe this is true is necessary

So far, we've only been given unsupported assertions that the cost of living will undoubtedly outpace all of our salaries. I've seen no evidence of that. Past performance is not indicative of future performance.

If you are on the fringe, those finding living here difficult, one must ask what difficult means. Either you have the money or you don't. If you aren't sure if you do, sit down with a calculator and anticipate the cost of living to increase at near or above the rate of inflation. Can you make it? If not, avoid the place. If you can, but can't stomach giving up your iPod and Mercedes, avoid the place. If you'd prefer the place to the things that make making ends meet difficult, then by all means stay. I'd love to have you as my neighbor.

[NYC2RDU]

Originally Posted by NYNewbie

Those arguing that people should avoid Long Island have the burden of proof here.

Those supporting the main idea of the thread seem to have retreated to simply arguing that if you can't afford to live here, then don't live here. That is tautological however. Who would disagree with that?

If, on the other hand, they are arguing that if you can afford to live here you shouldn't live here, then some reason to believe this is true is necessary

So far, we've only been given unsupported assertions that the cost of living will undoubtedly outpace all of our salaries. I've seen no evidence of that. Past performance is not indicative of future performance.

If you are on the fringe, those finding living here difficult, one must ask what difficult means. Either you have the money or you don't. If you aren't sure if you do, sit down with a calculator and anticipate the cost of living to increase at near or above the rate of inflation. Can you make it? If not, avoid the place. If you can, but can't stomach giving up your iPod and Mercedes, avoid the place. If you'd prefer the place to the things that make making ends meet difficult, then by all means stay. I'd love to have you as my neighbor.

Unfortunately there are posters who spew bile about quality-of-life issues that simply don't hold up based on my experiences. However I believe many of the posters in the Long Island forum who desire to leave, or in their words "escape", feel that financially it's too hard. You routinely lace your posts with the many positive aspects of living on Long Island. I've never challenged any of that because I completely agree. It's a very special place to live, particularly when raising a family. Clamboy has routinely accused me of wanting to move back to Long Island and he's right, I do. We loved living there and until the very last year continued to make the hard choices necessary to make it happen.

But I'd like for you to consider that there are many, many people who bought into the market responsibly, make decent livings and forgo luxuries and extras and are still falling helplessly behind. You could easily enough read some of my earlier posts about why we left Long Island and understand why I'm such a staunch defender of these financially downtrodden folks.

You're an excellent ambassador for Long Island in terms of people who are considering relocating to the area (seriously, no sarcasm intended). However for those that are already living there and are running out of financial bandwidth you might want to consider a little humility along the lines of "there but for the grace of god go I".

And as you enter your first Long Island Fall season I'd like to offer the following recommendations for your consideration:
- if you're looking to go pumpkin picking consider Stakey's Pumpkin Farm
- if you're looking to go apple picking consider Lewin Farms

[skyblupink]

I have lived here all my life, mainly Mount Siani area, then Sayville. I love Sayville, but the Port Jeff Mount Sinai area is getting too crowded to drive. Anyway, we are leaving, my DH has MS and we can afford much more house elsewhere. I agree prices really have inflated falsely and will son (or already are) falling, similar to the 80's. In 1997 I rented a 1 br for 550 pr mo, the house above was 4br and only $1200. Now I rent a 4 br house for $2100, insanity when we can buy a 2 acre 4 br home 100-150000 in NC and pay 800.

[pools123]

I would love to know what part of Nc your looking in

[dogcrazy]

Look at any part of NC.Friend of mine just went down there to visit someone and she was looking at the model homes.I think she said 175k brand new HUGEEE ,with all the modern state of the art appliances and everything.If you went off of LI with 400k you could buy an estate.

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by NYNewbie

Those arguing that people should avoid Long Island have the burden of proof here.

I think most of us HAVE proven our point. All you have to do is LOOK at the listings on LI and see what and how little you get for your money compared to anywhere else in the US. THEN.. once you swallow how your $300K (if you're lukcy enough to FIND a house that is liveable in a decent neighborhood for that kind of money) will GET you, look at the taxes!!!! 3x's the national average. Then.. go get an insurance quote for 1)Homeowners insurance and 2) Car insurance! Then.. call the utiltiy company.. better yet.. go to posts on this site and find out how much your electric will cost you.. Mine on a small Levitto house is $174/month and keeps rising! THAT, SIR, is where the proof lies!!

Those supporting the main idea of the thread seem to have retreated to simply arguing that if you can't afford to live here, then don't live here. That is tautological however. Who would disagree with that?

If, on the other hand, they are arguing that if you can afford to live here you shouldn't live here, then some reason to believe this is true is necessary
I for one, never argued that someone who CAN afford to live here don't.. but I do want them to understand that to live here is to "sacrafice". In other words, you may be able to afford to live here IF you are willing to sacrafice some of life's pleasures AND end up working your butt off to keep ahead of the bills. Thereby giving up quality time with family/friends and enjoying what you're very high taxes on LI are paying for ie; parks, library programs etc. As I've said.. most of us do not have time to do all these lovely things becasue we have to work our full time and then a part time job to support our families and pay for the high cost of living here. This post is a warning to those about what we go through to live here.
So far, we've only been given unsupported assertions that the cost of living will undoubtedly outpace all of our salaries. I've seen no evidence of that. Past performance is not indicative of future performance.

I'd say that your arguments are unsupported for lacke of experience livng here. Most of us posters were BORN AND RAISED HERE! THAT is what I consider "proof" about what to really expect. We've WATCHED the increase of our living expenses go up and up and up while our salaries have not matched that rate of increase. That, and you can look at ANY cost of living increase to see JUST that. You, having been here briefly with maybe 2 years under your belt if that, do not have enough information nor experience to debunk what we are telling others about.

If you are on the fringe, those finding living here difficult, one must ask what difficult means. Either you have the money or you don't. If you aren't sure if you do, sit down with a calculator and anticipate the cost of living to increase at near or above the rate of inflation. Can you make it? If not, avoid the place. If you can, but can't stomach giving up your iPod and Mercedes, avoid the place. If you'd prefer the place to the things that make making ends meet difficult, then by all means stay. I'd love to have you as my neighbor.

And this post will give them the information they need to know before they decide to live here.. Yup.. if you want to live here you'l have to give up a lot and live frugally.. And by us stating that the cost of living is high and LI had become unaffordable is simply telling them this. I for one, want a better quality of life.. and would like to do without the economic stress. This is all we're telling people.. all I have told people..

You came on the board and gave a "different" point of view, but actually you've supported the view.. becasue you even admit that you had to give up alot in order to live here. BUT..you haven't been here long enough to show people how years of living here will leave them financially. Your plan is all well and good.. but it's the point of view of those who have been here and have lived it that have enough experience with the area to tellthem how it really is.

[diamondplayer]

Originally Posted by dogcrazy

Look at any part of NC.Friend of mine just went down there to visit someone and she was looking at the model homes.I think she said 175k brand new HUGEEE ,with all the modern state of the art appliances and everything.If you went off of LI with 400k you could buy an estate.

Yes, you can get a lot of house for your money and yearly taxes are cheap. My house is 3,000 sq ft 100x190 wooded lot with YEARLY taxes of 1400. BUT, if you need to work make sure you have a job WAITING for you. Some have come down and have found it difficult to find a job. BTW, just did a group walking tour of the new town that is my home. There were about 50-60 people present including the mayor. During the tour we needed to cross the 'main" street twice. Both times two police cars stopped traffic for the group. It felt like Mayberry.

[retiredprodjmc]

Spartan and co.

Let me begin by saying I have lived in Brooklyn, Queens, NYC, Jersey, CA, SI and FL.

I read your comments but wanted to point out a few things, the houses are overpriced not only on Long Island but have you tried to buy a home in Brooklyn or Queens. Talk about over priced. $650-$900 K for a house next to the projects? Makes Deer Park Long Island @ $400 K look attractive.

How about a back yard? Front lawn? Non existant in the borroughs.

As for food and home goods, Macy's and Home Depot on Long Island charge the same as the ones in Brooklyn and Queens. As for the food, it's basically the same cost. I pay $2.00 for a slice of pizza on Long Island, $2.50 in Brooklyn, $3.00 in NYC.

As for your comment of the housing values being inflated by 30-50%, had you lived on the Island in the early 80's the same thing happened back then. Housing prices went up, then a recession hit and they went back down. As you may have realized housing starts are at the lowest point in the past 12 years and houses are no longer selling above the asking price as they did a year ago. The economy is cooling down and the housing market is "adjusting" to market trends. Over the next year or two we should see substantial decreases in the pricing not only on Long Island but throughout New York.

As for the commute, I did it for 8 years. The LIRR far exceeds the buses, subways and taxi cabs. It is clean and comfortable and for the most part on time. The stations are more or less clean and safe. A tremendous difference than watching rats run along the subway tracks or almost fainting in the extremem summer heat of the subways with no air circulating. Not to mention safety. And correct me if I am wrong but on the LIRR the announcements are in english. On the subway I can't make out enough of what is said to even differentiate. As for traveling the 50 plus miles you mention, I lived in Brooklyn, 14 miles from the city and it took me three subway line changes and 50 minutes of standing to get to work. On the LIRR from Long Island it took me 50 minutes to Penn to travel over 60 miles. So your perception ot the commute is questionable.

OK, now to go on record, each of these places has it's good and bad. It's own sort of charm. Although you can not expect antyhing in NY to be cheap. We have the best of everything in this state. That is why we pay a premium to live in NY.

The problem with Long Island is that there is no longer a strong skilled labor force. Most of the high tech and military jobs have left the island and have been replaced with service industry jobs. Yes, if you want to work in Home Deport or Target there is plenty of low paying jobs. If you want to earn over 75-80K then off to NYC you must go.

As for the illegal renovations, perhaps your not aware but unless you have permits for the renovations you can't sell a house legally unless it complies with code. For example if there is an illegal apartment, even if the work was done poorly, it must be made complaint with code for that house to sell. Weather that means applying for the permits or removing the illegal apartment is up to the owner.

Let's talk about traffic. Rush hour, I agree. But tell me if anywhere in the Tri-State area you don't have to sit in traffic of some sort during rush hour? Otherwise, the LIE and Parkways move very well. I recall a few speeding tickets I got while driving on these roads. Not possible if i was in bumper to bumper traffic.

As for rentals, it's the same throughout New York. Is $2800-$3500 reasonable for a one bedroom in NYC? How about Brooklyn, Queens? Expensive as well. Unless you live in a bad area. But thee are bad areas on the Island and cheap apartments there too. It all depends on what works for you.

My point, if your going to rate something at least be fair and reasonable about it. All areas have the good and the bad, it all depends on what works for the individual. Apparently LI didn't work for you, so move. When I got tired of SI, I left. Try Arizona, no traffic, no LIRR, although ironically the housing market there has seen an increase of 38%. Must be too many Long islanders moving to Arizona!

Originally Posted by spartan185

Long Island. The following review is written with great restraint for there is little to nothing appealing about Long Island, NY. I am native New Yorker, born in Brooklyn, raised in Manhattan. After earning my Ph.D., I accepted a faculty position at a university on Long Island. I spent 3 years living on Long Island searching for a job outside of Long Island. I have since relocated off Long Island and am very happy. The following are my cautions for living on Long Island.

Cost of Living. Long Island, NY is grossly over-priced in all categories (i.e., taxes, food, home goods, property, housing, education, etc.). There are two socio-economic brackets on Long Island – the poor/lower income and the wealthy/upper income. The middle class ($60,000 – $120, 000 annual household income) cannot afford to live with dignity, plan a family, or dream of building a reasonable savings account when living on Long Island. In fact, over the last few years, the New York Times has been reporting about the fleeing middle-class of Long Island – check its archives.

Housing for Purchase. The average cost of homes on Long Island is 30% - 50% above their actual value. Many of the people who own homes on Long Island are natives who inherited their homes from deceased relatives at well-below market price. Others bought their homes in the 70’s and 80’s at a relatively fair price with the intentions of raising a family in the suburbs while remaining in close proximity and easy access to New York City’s culture, business, and entertainment. However, the reality boom of the 90’s and 00’s has allowed LI homeowners to exponentially inflate the price of their homes way beyond their actual value – and with little to no upkeep, renovations, or modernizing. If you really pressed me for the truth, I would tell you that most of the homes are major crap-fests where homeowners, using substandard and/or illegal workmanship, add-on rooms, bathrooms, etc. in a disgusting attempt to inflate the price of their homes. A person with middle-middle to upper-middle income cannot afford decent living in Nassau County. As for Suffolk County, you can afford decent housing if you are willing to live 50+ miles east of the county line, thus making any commute to work a drastic hardship (1.5 – 3 hours commute one-way by car or rail).

Housing for Rent. Too bad to be believed. Lots of illegal apartment and homes for rent. Do not try to rent with a pet. Renters will try to make you feel that they are doing you a favor by renting their ****-hole to you – and they will make you pay. Legal apartments and newer apartment developments are grossly over prices because property managers know how difficult it is to find decent housing on Long Island. Expect to pay $1,100 - $2,000 per month to rent an illegal or substandard apartment in Nassau or Suffolk County. Expect to pay $1,800 – $3,000+ per month to rent an apartment with modern amenities (dish washer, laundry, 1+1/2 – 2 baths, 2 bedrooms, parking). At these rental prices, I would recommend you purchase a home rather than rent, but as you read earlier in my review, purchasing is nearly impossible.

Moderator cut: racist remarks

Traffic & Getting Around. Congested and impossible to get anywhere. The Long Island Railroad (LIRR) is only good for getting you to New York City and back to your LI town. Forget about using LIRR to traverse the island itself.

My Suggestions. Avoid living and working on Long Island at all costs – unless you enjoy subjecting yourself to narrow-minded racists who are looking to make a buck off of anything with a heartbeat. Please note that I was very, very restrained in my critique.