Avoid Long Island If You Can (Babylon, Levittown: property taxes, houses, condo) - Long Island - New York (NY) - Page 9 - City-Data Forum

nbres · 09-11-2007, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Another point on schools is that "good" is totally relative to a lot of other folks opinions. All kids are unique and will respond well in different environments. I went to Levittown schools although I know my parents were bummed cuz they thought we were in the Wantagh district. I'm glad I didn't go there because I hated everyone I ever met from Wantagh High School. Instead I had a great time, got excellent grades and got into every college I applied to. Drugs are everywhere too, and usually the rich kids have the better ones and $$$ to blow on them.

The above is a great post by Sean

It supports my position about Long Island schools. "Better" is not always the best for your kids. The great Long Island school scam continues.

TristansMommy · 09-11-2007, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbres

Response to TristansMommy:

I have lived on Long Island for most of my 45 years. I know what I'm talking about.

I did give you another post where I corrected myself .. becasue I realized you were someone else.. but thenyou should read my other post.. where I challenge you to see if you would be able to afford your home that you live in at the market price today. How about your children? You're only slightly younger than my parents.. try starting a family at the cost of living on LI today.. and it's more than just housing prices..its ALL factors that contribute.. including taxes. You're children won't be able to live on LI at the rate the increases keep going.. Also.. I'm sure you wouldn't be comfortable with your children living in these "affordable' neighborhoods you speak of.

No. All I'm saying is that there are lots and lots of affordable homes on Long Island for under the median price. There is no economic rationale behind the assertion that there are no affordable homes. You and other buyers are choosing to not buy those homes that are affordable for other reasons. Your reasons have nothing to do with price. If the home is affordable at a certain market price than it is affordable.

You rule out lots of homes for other reasons that have nothing to do with price. Everyone wants to live in certain "good" areas, but what can you afford? The free-market determines what your salary is and what home prices are. You have to buy a home you can afford where ever that might be.

I rule out buying a home in a crack neighborhood.. I don't live in a posh neighborhood either.. I live in Levittown. Sorry..

What is wrong with buying a fixer-upper? I did. I did most of the work myself. And you know what, my parents bought what was essentially dilapidated house in the late 60s and fixed it up. You buy what you can afford and then put in some sweat equity.
Yup.. that's EXACTLY what I bought.. Cost me $350K!!! to buy a FIXER UPPER in a Blue collar neighborhood..

The schools are only as good as your child and you make them to be. This is a subjective reason. So if you want to buy in a so called "better" district than you will have to pay for it. If everyone perceives a district to be "better" than demand will drive up price. This is the biggest rip-off going. People will pay rediculous amounts of money to send their kids to a "better" district, but are their kids getting any better of an education? Which districts do you consider "sub-par" and why?
I totally agree with you.. and again..I don't live in a super duper schoold district, but I dont' live in a bad one either.. but I'm not going to send my kid to school where there are kids that do drugs, deal drugs and form gangs and live in violence. Sub-par.. try Roosevelt SD, Wyandanch SD.. why is it sub-par.. because the students do poorly because the parents are ..well you know.. you know Wyndanch. If you live on LI and don't understand the difference between school districts and WHY you wouldn't want your children in one of the "affordable" area schools..then you don't understand the school system at all. I'll cover that further down the line.

I will let you inI on a little secret. There is no difference between most school districts. There might be a few exceptions, but no one has yet to convince me that the education a child can get at Roslyn is somehow better than the education my children are getting in North Babylon. If my children do well on the SATs and on AP tests and are involved in sports, etc.. and then get into very good colleges - how is that any worse than what the kids in Roslyn are getting.
AGain. you are comparing N. Babylon with Roslyn.. and there isn't that much of a difference.. and i can't believe your lumping N.B as an affordable area.. .. Now.. compare Roosevelt, Wyandanch, freeport and I'm know there's others.. compare THEM to a Roslyn N.B, or other "good" and "above average" schools.. THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!
You'd have to be livign in a bubble and looking through rose colored glasses if you don't see that and you don't know that. THE ROOSEVELT, WYANDANCH.. THOSE ARE THE "AFFORDABLE" NEIGHBORHOODS you speak of

According to most people I do. I live in North Babylon. I afford my home on just my income. My wife is a stay-at-home-mom. We have no credit card debt. And the schools are great - my kids are excelling. My neighbors are great people.

Here's a little secret for you.. I GREW UP IN NORTH BABYLON AND LIVED THERE FOR 29 YEARS OF MY LIFE AND GRADUATED FROM NB HIGH SCHOOL..LOL. So.. I find it ironic that you are lumping North babylon into an "affordable" neighborhood.. N.B is a blue collar neighborhood.. and considered a "good neighborhood". NB is not that much more affordable. N.B Schools are considered Good Schools.. nope.. it's not Roslyn, but that's okay.. but to answer your question about what makes those school districts "better" than other Schools.. it's the programs that they have that are OUTSIDE the curriculum.. because certain schools have more money than others.. THAT'S WHERE TEH DIFFERENCE IS. Not in the curriculum.. because EVERY SD uses the same curriculum.

Another thing that makes a school district better over another is the type of parents the students go home to. Let's take Wyandanch for instance.. would you want you kids going to that school? Because when you are in a SD where your child is surrounded by kids who are doing drugs,have parents doing drugs or have paretns that do not hold the same values as you, your kids become influenced by those students.. so you want your child to be in a school and in a community with people that hold similar values (and this has nothing to do with color) I think you know what I mean. You also want your students to have the sports and other programs that help build their character and help them stand out on their colege resumes.

But you wouldn't consider living near them, would you?

Of course it is. That is why it costs more to live in Cold Spring Harbor than Wyandanch. But if you can't afford Cold Spring Harbor and you can afford a home in Wyandanch then what stops people from buying in Wyandanch is not price. But Wyandanch is affordable - lots of brand new homes in Wyandanch for under $400,000. Maybe if people put aside their prejudices and took advantage of the low home prices then maybe the area would improve. In fact it is. Many Hispanics are moving there and are buying huge brand new colonials and high ranches for under $400,000.

You consider under $400K affordable.. well it's NOT.. that's for sure. My mortage is under $400K (I bought my house for $350.. a fixer upper I had to refi and pull more money out of to fix) is $3300/month. Under $300K yeah.. that's "affordable" but then you are paying a different cost for that "affordability" and it's not with dollar signs. I seriously doubt you would go live in Wyandanch.. lets just say you couldn't afford your NB HOme.. but you could in Wyandanch. BUT.. could you afford to live in a neighborhood where there are crack heads and hookers, gangs and robberies.. C'mon man!! Give me a break.. I would consider the price I'd be paying would be putting myself and my family in danger!! Iwouldnt' want to walk outside my own house at night.. so that's a price and one I consider "unaffordable" too! Plus.. I stand by what I said.. the houses there are deplorable for under $300K.. then you'd need $100K to make it decent.. so that brings you up to $400K. Believe me.. I sell real estate and i've been in some of those homes.. not fit for a roach to live in!! Totally disgusting!!

I can afford my house.. but you know what.. I can't save up any money for my kids college and my retirement.. as long as I keep livign here there is no extra for anything besides the bills that seem to be taking a never ending climb upwards daily! Also, what happens if you get sick and no longer can work or you have an accident and your income is cut.. bet you woudl be in a different boat..you'd find that you have no extra wiggle room for emergencies because yuor bills are so high..

But then again... you fall into the category of someone who purchased their home in atime where it was slightly more affordable. Try purchasing a house on todays market and starting over. it's not easy. We are at two different places in our lives, and if LI doesn't fix the problem.. when your kids hit their 20's and want to start a family.. unless they are Dr.'s or Lawyers or something like that.. they will be leaving for a more affordable place to live. I'm sure you wouldn't be encouraging your children to go live in a place you deem "affordable" like Wyandanch!

TristansMommy · 09-11-2007, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbres

Response to TristansMommy:

I have lived on Long Island for most of my 45 years. I know what I'm talking about.

I did give you another post where I corrected myself .. becasue I realized you were someone else.. but thenyou should read my other post.. where I challenge you to see if you would be able to afford your home that you live in at the market price today. How about your children? You're only slightly younger than my parents.. try starting a family at the cost of living on LI today.. and it's more than just housing prices..its ALL factors that contribute.. including taxes. You're children won't be able to live on LI at the rate the increases keep going.. Also.. I'm sure you wouldn't be comfortable with your children living in these "affordable' neighborhoods you speak of.

No. All I'm saying is that there are lots and lots of affordable homes on Long Island for under the median price. There is no economic rationale behind the assertion that there are no affordable homes. You and other buyers are choosing to not buy those homes that are affordable for other reasons. Your reasons have nothing to do with price. If the home is affordable at a certain market price than it is affordable.

You rule out lots of homes for other reasons that have nothing to do with price. Everyone wants to live in certain "good" areas, but what can you afford? The free-market determines what your salary is and what home prices are. You have to buy a home you can afford where ever that might be.

I rule out buying a home in a crack neighborhood.. I don't live in a posh neighborhood either.. I live in Levittown. Sorry..

What is wrong with buying a fixer-upper? I did. I did most of the work myself. And you know what, my parents bought what was essentially dilapidated house in the late 60s and fixed it up. You buy what you can afford and then put in some sweat equity.
Yup.. that's EXACTLY what I bought.. Cost me $350K!!! to buy a FIXER UPPER in a Blue collar neighborhood..

The schools are only as good as your child and you make them to be. This is a subjective reason. So if you want to buy in a so called "better" district than you will have to pay for it. If everyone perceives a district to be "better" than demand will drive up price. This is the biggest rip-off going. People will pay rediculous amounts of money to send their kids to a "better" district, but are their kids getting any better of an education? Which districts do you consider "sub-par" and why?
I totally agree with you.. and again..I don't live in a super duper schoold district, but I dont' live in a bad one either.. but I'm not going to send my kid to school where there are kids that do drugs, deal drugs and form gangs and live in violence. Sub-par.. try Roosevelt SD, Wyandanch SD.. why is it sub-par.. because the students do poorly because the parents are ..well you know.. you know Wyndanch. If you live on LI and don't understand the difference between school districts and WHY you wouldn't want your children in one of the "affordable" area schools..then you don't understand the school system at all. I'll cover that further down the line.

I will let you inI on a little secret. There is no difference between most school districts. There might be a few exceptions, but no one has yet to convince me that the education a child can get at Roslyn is somehow better than the education my children are getting in North Babylon. If my children do well on the SATs and on AP tests and are involved in sports, etc.. and then get into very good colleges - how is that any worse than what the kids in Roslyn are getting.
AGain. you are comparing N. Babylon with Roslyn.. and there isn't that much of a difference.. and i can't believe your lumping N.B as an affordable area.. .. Now.. compare Roosevelt, Wyandanch, freeport and I'm know there's others.. compare THEM to a Roslyn N.B, or other "good" and "above average" schools.. THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!
You'd have to be livign in a bubble and looking through rose colored glasses if you don't see that and you don't know that. THE ROOSEVELT, WYANDANCH.. THOSE ARE THE "AFFORDABLE" NEIGHBORHOODS you speak of

According to most people I do. I live in North Babylon. I afford my home on just my income. My wife is a stay-at-home-mom. We have no credit card debt. And the schools are great - my kids are excelling. My neighbors are great people.

Here's a little secret for you.. I GREW UP IN NORTH BABYLON AND LIVED THERE FOR 29 YEARS OF MY LIFE AND GRADUATED FROM NB HIGH SCHOOL..LOL. So.. I find it ironic that you are lumping North babylon into an "affordable" neighborhood.. N.B is a blue collar neighborhood.. and considered a "good neighborhood". NB is not that much more affordable. N.B Schools are considered Good Schools.. nope.. it's not Roslyn, but that's okay.. but to answer your question about what makes those school districts "better" than other Schools.. it's the programs that they have that are OUTSIDE the curriculum.. because certain schools have more money than others.. THAT'S WHERE TEH DIFFERENCE IS. Not in the curriculum.. because EVERY SD uses the same curriculum.

Another thing that makes a school district better over another is the type of parents the students go home to. Let's take Wyandanch for instance.. would you want you kids going to that school? Because when you are in a SD where your child is surrounded by kids who are doing drugs,have parents doing drugs or have paretns that do not hold the same values as you, your kids become influenced by those students.. so you want your child to be in a school and in a community with people that hold similar values (and this has nothing to do with color) I think you know what I mean. You also want your students to have the sports and other programs that help build their character and help them stand out on their colege resumes.

But you wouldn't consider living near them, would you?

Of course it is. That is why it costs more to live in Cold Spring Harbor than Wyandanch. But if you can't afford Cold Spring Harbor and you can afford a home in Wyandanch then what stops people from buying in Wyandanch is not price. But Wyandanch is affordable - lots of brand new homes in Wyandanch for under $400,000. Maybe if people put aside their prejudices and took advantage of the low home prices then maybe the area would improve. In fact it is. Many Hispanics are moving there and are buying huge brand new colonials and high ranches for under $400,000.

You consider under $400K affordable.. well it's NOT.. that's for sure. My mortage is under $400K (I bought my house for $350.. a fixer upper I had to refi and pull more money out of to fix) is $3300/month. Under $300K yeah.. that's "affordable" but then you are paying a different cost for that "affordability" and it's not with dollar signs. I seriously doubt you would go live in Wyandanch.. lets just say you couldn't afford your NB HOme.. but you could in Wyandanch. BUT.. could you afford to live in a neighborhood where there are crack heads and hookers, gangs and robberies.. C'mon man!! Give me a break.. I would consider the price I'd be paying would be putting myself and my family in danger!! Iwouldnt' want to walk outside my own house at night.. so that's a price and one I consider "unaffordable" too! Plus.. I stand by what I said.. the houses there are deplorable for under $300K.. then you'd need $100K to make it decent.. so that brings you up to $400K. Believe me.. I sell real estate and i've been in some of those homes.. not fit for a roach to live in!! Totally disgusting!!

I can afford my house.. but you know what.. I can't save up any money for my kids college and my retirement.. as long as I keep livign here there is no extra for anything besides the bills that seem to be taking a never ending climb upwards daily! Also, what happens if you get sick and no longer can work or you have an accident and your income is cut.. bet you woudl be in a different boat..you'd find that you have no extra wiggle room for emergencies because yuor bills are so high..

But then again... you fall into the category of someone who purchased their home in atime where it was slightly more affordable. Try purchasing a house on todays market and starting over. it's not easy. We are at two different places in our lives, and if LI doesn't fix the problem.. when your kids hit their 20's and want to start a family.. unless they are Dr.'s or Lawyers or something like that.. they will be leaving for a more affordable place to live. I'm sure you wouldn't be encouraging your children to go live in a place you deem "affordable" like Wyandanch!

TristansMommy · 09-11-2007, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbres

The above is a great post by Sean

It supports my position about Long Island schools. "Better" is not always the best for your kids. The great Long Island school scam continues.

I agree about the school districts.. BUT.. we are taling about the "affordable " neighborhoods money wise.. and there is a HUGE difference between.. let's say a Levittown SD adn a Roosevelt SD or a Wyandanch SD.. No curriculum is the same.. BUT the programs and the "extra's" they provide for the students DOES make a difference in their lives, their education and their ability to get into a good college. There aer slight differences between..let's say a Levittown and a Roslyn.. but there are HUGE differences between a Roosevelt and a Roslyn. Also, it's important what type of people your children are surrounded by. For example.. if they run with a "bad crowd" it will influence them to be "bad". .. hence lots of nice people that live in neighborhoods with gangs and no matter WHAT the parents do or try to do, those kids still end up being in a gang.. because Pier pressure is a powerful thing. When you are in a neighborhood with people that share your values, that sit with their kids at night and do homework and your kids run around with other "good kids" that too wil have a powerful impact on them in a positive way. I , for one, do not want my kid in a school district where the perfomrance of the students as a whole is "poor" because it will pull my child down because that is what he would be surrounded by.

NYC2RDU · 09-11-2007, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomMoser

In the city, they say the way to make money in real estate is to "follow the artists". The theory is that artists move to poorer neighborhoods, because that is all they can afford. Then, because of them, the areas become trendy. Once they are trendy, the artists can not to afford to live there anymore, so they move on to another poorer neighborhood. I wonder if this would work on Long Island?

While I found it difficult to picture New Cassel as the next Soho I would've thought it even stranger to think of the South Bronx that way a decade ago. However it's already happening. A good friend was recently bought out of his lease so that the landlord could convert the space into loft condo's. They went on the market at over one million dollars per unit.

It all started with artists moving into the dirt cheap spaces and living with the dangers.

sean sean sean sean · 09-11-2007, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

I agree about the school districts.. BUT.. we are taling about the "affordable " neighborhoods money wise.. and there is a HUGE difference between.. let's say a Levittown SD adn a Roosevelt SD or a Wyandanch SD.. No curriculum is the same.. BUT the programs and the "extra's" they provide for the students DOES make a difference in their lives, their education and their ability to get into a good college. There aer slight differences between..let's say a Levittown and a Roslyn.. but there are HUGE differences between a Roosevelt and a Roslyn. Also, it's important what type of people your children are surrounded by. For example.. if they run with a "bad crowd" it will influence them to be "bad". .. hence lots of nice people that live in neighborhoods with gangs and no matter WHAT the parents do or try to do, those kids still end up being in a gang.. because Pier pressure is a powerful thing. When you are in a neighborhood with people that share your values, that sit with their kids at night and do homework and your kids run around with other "good kids" that too wil have a powerful impact on them in a positive way. I , for one, do not want my kid in a school district where the perfomrance of the students as a whole is "poor" because it will pull my child down because that is what he would be surrounded by.

I really think as long as your high school is fundamentally sound, there really is NO difference and it's all individual experience that differs. No college in this world is going to look at a high school transcript of a kid that has a 1200 SAT score and a 90GPA and be worried that they attended a subpar district. Yeah, colleges like to see extra curricular activities, but they like to see academic results a whole lot more - and any activities outside of school can count towards that if the district doesn't offer them, as even the worst high school guidance counselor will tell you. I know you're not even really saying the opposite, but I feel like some people will take that away from your post.

If I had kids I wouldn't be in love with the idea of sending them to Roosevelt schools. Actually I'm not gonna lie I straight up wouldn't do that at all... and it's not because of the drugs, gangs, other students or even the character of the neighborhood. It's because of the ass-backwards way that whole district (and MOST districts in, as you put it "affordable" neighborhoods) have been run throughout modern history.

Here's where my post gets long winded --- again, I'm not disagreeing with you on anything, just decided to throw this in here.

It's easy to forget we're only 50+ years removed from segregated schools, Roosevelt is a community that has always been predominantly black and as such has had that "negative" stigma attached to it since it's inception (it's modern form at least). Even if these attitudes towards blacks don't prevail today, the district started off with little funding and when it finally did get some through federal aid, it was misused by the people in charge who didn't care...because who wants to work in a such an awful school district? They have to scrape the bottom of the barrel for employees. Budgets don't pass because the area is chronically low income, and families that have roots there never had the simple benefit of increased home equity that the surrounding areas have. Kids lose hope because of unmotivated teachers and viewing their parents and older siblings struggling to pull themselves up in a community that is structured to keep pushing them down. I am a huuuge hater of "equal opportunities" - I think it's a complete joke as far as college admissions and job openings...but if you are going to have a PUBLIC school system that functions and provides the same opportunities to students of all colors, creeds and economic backgrounds than you can't have the poor kids getting shafted when it comes to education, that's just not fair and will keep creating Roosevelts all over the country -- continually effed up neighborhoods that have NO CHANCE to ever revitalize themselves within the current socioeconomic infrastructure. That's my personal opinion on it at least. Long Island is mostly occupied by families, give us equal schools and we'll have kids who come home willing to put that money back into the places they grew up. Especially a community like Roosevelt that does have strong ties amongst it's residents, as hard as that is to believe for all of the people who have never been there.

---
The one thing I'll disagree with you on is drugs and gangs. I noticed you said you live in Levittown, as a resident of Levittown and a graduate of it's school district I'll tell you that when I was a kid all we ever did was smoke some pot. I don't know how long you've lived here, but since I graduated a lot of money has come into Levittown...and with it have come harder drugs. My younger brother's friends mess with all kinds of stuff I didn't even know existed when I was in H.S. At the same time, with all that money, the Levittown District is considered MUCH better than it was 10 years ago, even though a lot of programs have been cut and the administrative heirarchy is now based on "knowin' somebody"....go figure. As far as gangs, having several friends that are teachers in some of the "bad" districts, as well as working around kids from some of those "bad" districts personally for years, I can tell you pretty confidently that the supposed gang hype is a whole lot of media sensationalism and a very tiny bit of reality. The older we get the less we understand the trends with kids today too, things are constantly changing...maybe it's cool nowadays to say you're down with MS-13 even if you don't know what the hell that is. I went to school with a lot of Italian kids and everybody wanted to claim their dad was mobbed up or whatever....none of it was true because if your dad WAS mobbed up, you didn't talk about that!! It's all the same, just different and changing times.

Finally... it's easy for me to sit here and say all of this without having any kids of my own, so I'm not judging anybody's decisions or telling you what to do with your children...just suggesting an alternative to some common perceptions!

nbres - I went back and read some of your posts and I think you're pretty much on the same page as me, glad to hear at least one other person shares my opinions!

Redd Jedd · 09-11-2007, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

I agree about the school districts.. BUT.. we are taling about the "affordable " neighborhoods money wise.. and there is a HUGE difference between.. let's say a Levittown SD adn a Roosevelt SD or a Wyandanch SD.. No curriculum is the same.. BUT the programs and the "extra's" they provide for the students DOES make a difference in their lives, their education and their ability to get into a good college. There aer slight differences between..let's say a Levittown and a Roslyn.. but there are HUGE differences between a Roosevelt and a Roslyn. Also, it's important what type of people your children are surrounded by. For example.. if they run with a "bad crowd" it will influence them to be "bad". .. hence lots of nice people that live in neighborhoods with gangs and no matter WHAT the parents do or try to do, those kids still end up being in a gang.. because Pier pressure is a powerful thing. When you are in a neighborhood with people that share your values, that sit with their kids at night and do homework and your kids run around with other "good kids" that too wil have a powerful impact on them in a positive way. I , for one, do not want my kid in a school district where the perfomrance of the students as a whole is "poor" because it will pull my child down because that is what he would be surrounded by.

I agree with your response. I bought my house on LI in 1995. If I had to buy at the price I sold in 2006, I could not have, nor would I have wanted to. To put 10% down on a $400K house is $40K, let alone 20% to avoid PMI. At the median house price with 10% down, it would still require a jumbo loan. NY salaries are high, but non financial with bonus jobs are not high enough to keep the average worker from just keeping even. I did not have to sell, but my reasons for moving were beyond money, although at what point are the taxes your paying on your property no longer worth the price?

And the rational behind any price in real estate is location, location, location. Then it is what your are getting for the $350K deal in a $450K median market. No one is going to give away their largest asset when they could get more for it. Homes at that price sell at that price for a reason. And usually those reasons don't match with what the majority of home purchasers are looking for.

sean sean sean sean · 09-11-2007, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYC2RDU

While I found it difficult to picture New Cassel as the next Soho I would've thought it even stranger to think of the South Bronx that way a decade ago. However it's already happening. A good friend was recently bought out of his lease so that the landlord could convert the space into loft condo's. They went on the market at over one million dollars per unit.

It all started with artists moving into the dirt cheap spaces and living with the dangers.

I guarantee that at least within the next 50 years this does happen on Long Island. We just need to get more populated. "White Flight" already happened in the city, now the older minority groups living there will be pushed out into Nassau by the new arrivals and we'll start seeing "Brown Flight". I'm sure a lot of neighborhoods in Nassau are gonna go through changes - a lot of them already are.

This is also something that is only going to take place in areas that would be attractive to an artistic community. We're not gonna see strip malls converted into studio space.... but look for towns like Hempstead and Freeport to be the first ones revitalized. Long Beach kind of had the same thing happen, although there's not a big cultural movement there is a big "youth" movement. Rentals in Long Beach are in high demand now. I'm sure that will also spread into Island Park/Barnum Island/Oceanside once the recent college grads are priced out of Long Beach.

Should be interesting to see!

TristansMommy · 09-11-2007, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean

I really think as long as your high school is fundamentally sound, there really is NO difference and it's all individual experience that differs. No college in this world is going to look at a high school transcript of a kid that has a 1200 SAT score and a 90GPA and be worried that they attended a subpar district. Yeah, colleges like to see extra curricular activities, but they like to see academic results a whole lot more - and any activities outside of school can count towards that if the district doesn't offer them, as even the worst high school guidance counselor will tell you. I know you're not even really saying the opposite, but I feel like some people will take that away from your post.

If I had kids I wouldn't be in love with the idea of sending them to Roosevelt schools. Actually I'm not gonna lie I straight up wouldn't do that at all... and it's not because of the drugs, gangs, other students or even the character of the neighborhood. It's because of the ass-backwards way that whole district (and MOST districts in, as you put it "affordable" neighborhoods) have been run throughout modern history.

Here's where my post gets long winded --- again, I'm not disagreeing with you on anything, just decided to throw this in here.

It's easy to forget we're only 50+ years removed from segregated schools, Roosevelt is a community that has always been predominantly black and as such has had that "negative" stigma attached to it since it's inception (it's modern form at least). Even if these attitudes towards blacks don't prevail today, the district started off with little funding and when it finally did get some through federal aid, it was misused by the people in charge who didn't care...because who wants to work in a such an awful school district? They have to scrape the bottom of the barrel for employees. Budgets don't pass because the area is chronically low income, and families that have roots there never had the simple benefit of increased home equity that the surrounding areas have. Kids lose hope because of unmotivated teachers and viewing their parents and older siblings struggling to pull themselves up in a community that is structured to keep pushing them down. I am a huuuge hater of "equal opportunities" - I think it's a complete joke as far as college admissions and job openings...but if you are going to have a PUBLIC school system that functions and provides the same opportunities to students of all colors, creeds and economic backgrounds than you can't have the poor kids getting shafted when it comes to education, that's just not fair and will keep creating Roosevelts all over the country -- continually effed up neighborhoods that have NO CHANCE to ever revitalize themselves within the current socioeconomic infrastructure. That's my personal opinion on it at least. Long Island is mostly occupied by families, give us equal schools and we'll have kids who come home willing to put that money back into the places they grew up. Especially a community like Roosevelt that does have strong ties amongst it's residents, as hard as that is to believe for all of the people who have never been there.

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The one thing I'll disagree with you on is drugs and gangs. I noticed you said you live in Levittown, as a resident of Levittown and a graduate of it's school district I'll tell you that when I was a kid all we ever did was smoke some pot. I don't know how long you've lived here, but since I graduated a lot of money has come into Levittown...and with it have come harder drugs. My younger brother's friends mess with all kinds of stuff I didn't even know existed when I was in H.S. At the same time, with all that money, the Levittown District is considered MUCH better than it was 10 years ago, even though a lot of programs have been cut and the administrative heirarchy is now based on "knowin' somebody"....go figure. As far as gangs, having several friends that are teachers in some of the "bad" districts, as well as working around kids from some of those "bad" districts personally for years, I can tell you pretty confidently that the supposed gang hype is a whole lot of media sensationalism and a very tiny bit of reality. The older we get the less we understand the trends with kids today too, things are constantly changing...maybe it's cool nowadays to say you're down with MS-13 even if you don't know what the hell that is. I went to school with a lot of Italian kids and everybody wanted to claim their dad was mobbed up or whatever....none of it was true because if your dad WAS mobbed up, you didn't talk about that!! It's all the same, just different and changing times.

Finally... it's easy for me to sit here and say all of this without having any kids of my own, so I'm not judging anybody's decisions or telling you what to do with your children...just suggesting an alternative to some common perceptions!

nbres - I went back and read some of your posts and I think you're pretty much on the same page as me, glad to hear at least one other person shares my opinions!

I don't neccesarily disagree with you, however, I have to say this. We know , through history, no matter WHERE you live there is a cycle that families follow. If you come from.. let's say an abusive home, you'll either become an abuser or you'll do the opposite right. More often than not that abuse re-cycles itself in the next generation. Children learn how to be who they are by example.. and we all hope that our children will look first to their parents and second to their community for examples of wht kind of person to be. And.. you can't deny that your parents ARE the most influencial person in your life. I am the person I am today BECAUSE I had good, hard working honest parents who followed all the laws, worked hard for what they had and sat down with me to make me do my homework and so on and so forth. NOw, that being said, the cycle of poverty also repeats itself. There are people who, for whatever reason or influence, grow up in diversity or poverty adn WORK REAL hard to get themselves to the next level and OUT of the cycle rather than perpetrate it. HOWEVEr.. those individuals are exceptions to the rule in certain communties and are individuals that grow DESPITE their environment (and hopefully because they have parents that truly want their children to have more than they do) They are the students from "poor" districts that DO get into a good college DESPITE their environment.. Despite their disadvantage...
And.. going to one of those school districts IS a disadvantage. So why would anyone want to start their kid at a disadvantage.. i wouldn't. So for me, those neighborhoods are NOT options. Could I live there and send my kid to school and he still excel.. of course, but that would be making it HARDER for him to do so.. And there are more crimes of violence in those neighborhoods.. just watch the news and yuou'll hear about all the shootings in Hempstead, Roosevelt. .so on.. It' s just too dangerous as far as I'm concerned..

It's kind of like this.. if you are around happy people, people who are postiive with positive energy YOu in turn will be a more postitive person (that's why we all try to chose friends that uplift us rather than bring us down). If you are around people that are negative, that negetivity rubs off on you.. I feel the same thing applies to a comminity and a school district.
There are drugs in EVERY school district.. yup.. more money, more expensive drugs.. Maybe I was nieve.. but i never noticed it in my school (I went to North BAbylon H.S)

It goes beyond drugs, gangs and violence.. and more about attitude of a community. When I go to those communities I feel so sad for them.. They just do not take pride in themselves, or their homes. It's one thing to not have money.. but does that mean that garbage has to be strewn all over your front lawn and taht you have to live in a pigsty? It doesn't take money to have class.. not at all.. . .and that same attitude spills over into the schools and every other aspect of the community.. why would I want to expose my kid to that... You don't haev to have money to have some pride in yourself and in your community. These people in these communities have so many resources to hel pthem.. and some really do need it and use it to better themselves, their lives and more importantly that of their children.. HOWEVER.. for those that only looking for a free ride or an excuse as to why they are where they are.. I have no sympathy for.

And.. the people in those districts live there becuase they have no other chocie but to live there becasue that's all they can afford... and even those neighborhoods are hard to afford..

So you're two choices onLI.. live in a decent neighborhood with decent schools for upwards of $350K for a fixer upper .. OR live in a .. well ghetto with lousy schools, crime, and a pigsty and still pay almost $300K for ah ouse you'll have to fix in to live..

sean sean sean sean · 09-12-2007, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

I don't neccesarily disagree with you, however, I have to say this. We know , through history, no matter WHERE you live there is a cycle that families follow. If you come from.. let's say an abusive home, you'll either become an abuser or you'll do the opposite right. More often than not that abuse re-cycles itself in the next generation. Children learn how to be who they are by example.. and we all hope that our children will look first to their parents and second to their community for examples of wht kind of person to be. And.. you can't deny that your parents ARE the most influencial person in your life. I am the person I am today BECAUSE I had good, hard working honest parents who followed all the laws, worked hard for what they had and sat down with me to make me do my homework and so on and so forth. NOw, that being said, the cycle of poverty also repeats itself. There are people who, for whatever reason or influence, grow up in diversity or poverty adn WORK REAL hard to get themselves to the next level and OUT of the cycle rather than perpetrate it. HOWEVEr.. those individuals are exceptions to the rule in certain communties and are individuals that grow DESPITE their environment (and hopefully because they have parents that truly want their children to have more than they do) They are the students from "poor" districts that DO get into a good college DESPITE their environment.. Despite their disadvantage...
And.. going to one of those school districts IS a disadvantage. So why would anyone want to start their kid at a disadvantage.. i wouldn't. So for me, those neighborhoods are NOT options. Could I live there and send my kid to school and he still excel.. of course, but that would be making it HARDER for him to do so.. And there are more crimes of violence in those neighborhoods.. just watch the news and yuou'll hear about all the shootings in Hempstead, Roosevelt. .so on.. It' s just too dangerous as far as I'm concerned..

It goes beyond drugs, gangs and violence.. and more about attitude of a community. When I go to those communities I feel so sad for them.. They just do not take pride in themselves, or their homes. It's one thing to not have money.. but does that mean that garbage has to be strewn all over your front lawn and taht you have to live in a pigsty? It doesn't take money to have class.. not at all.. . .and that same attitude spills over into the schools and every other aspect of the community.. why would I want to expose my kid to that... You don't haev to have money to have some pride in yourself and in your community. These people in these communities have so many resources to hel pthem.. and some really do need it and use it to better themselves, their lives and more importantly that of their children.. HOWEVER.. for those that only looking for a free ride or an excuse as to why they are where they are.. I have no sympathy for.

And.. the people in those districts live there becuase they have no other chocie but to live there becasue that's all they can afford... and even those neighborhoods are hard to afford..

There is absolutely a cycle that families follow, but who's to say the cycle that follows the ills of poverty is any worse than the cycle that follows regenerating wealth? Rich kids cave in to the same pressures as the poor kids, but they don't face anywhere near the same consequences when they fail. I have yet to meet anyone in my life who was born with money and didn't grow up to retain that money no matter how irresponsible, lazy and reckless they were. Is that what makes a "good" school district? Because I tend to notice the "good" school districts are generally in the areas where the money is located and I would never want my kids hanging out with people like that, I'd never want to hang out with people like that myself!

That is just way too simple of a view to have in my opinion. You can grow up poor, with loving parents who work their tails off and try to instill the best values possible, but at the same time can never catch a break....and when you don't have a lot of money, even a minor setback can snowball into something massive. It's not hard to see how a kid growing up in this environment can get disillusioned at a very young age...especially when everyone else in the area is going through something similar or even more screwed up and the schools aren't helping either because they're run by people who don't care one bit. Is it the parents fault for trying to chase down their own piece of the American dream, making a better life for their children and ultimately failing at it... Or is it the education system -- the ONE THING that is supposed to offer people from all walks of life the chance at upward social and economic mobility -- is it their fault for completely failing in it's purpose and just playing into this never ending cycle?

Of course there are tons of people living that life who have just never even tried either, given up way too early and never looked back.....looking to stretch out a free ride as long as they can, but I'm sure there's just as many useless rich kids who are waiting for their parents to die so they can be set with life insurance and selling-the-house money after their trust funds went up their noses...which one is worse? I find it very hard to criticize people who came into this world with a raw deal. I don't want you or anyone else (with the means) to send your kids there, I wouldn't...obviously the environment is a huge disadvantage but it shouldn't be and it doesn't have to be. With better planning they could turn that whole community around in a matter of years, but so far it's been easier to sweep it under the rug.

Is any of this making sense? I hate to come across as a bleeding heart who has a huge boner for peace and harmony and understanding and all that other BS cuz I don't....I'll swear by tons of stereotypes, but I think classifying people a certain way just because they're poor and their houses don't look as nice as yours isn't a good situation for anyone.

Also important to note....we may view Roosevelt as the ghetto, but compared to most "ghettos" it's basically Disney Land and NOT as bad as the rumors. This is still Long Island and still the safest region in the USA, so at the very least Roosevelt should be proud of it's status as the country club of suburban ghettos.