100's of Teachers in Suffolk Might Lose Jobs (Hauppauge: insurance, bankrupt)

[DeadPool1998]

Originally Posted by PreciousMonster

Another huge reason that education is so expensive is the federal/state mandates put on schools. Consider special education. Special education triples the cost of a student, it does not prepare them for the real world. If we did away with special education/resource, we would save an incredible amount of money.

Another idea I have it to make parents pay a fee to pay for clubs/after school activities if they want them to be funded through the school. If parents don't want to foot the bill, get rid of the after school activity.

I think the idea that kids with special needs be abandon both by the federal government and the state is a golden idea. What it would amount to is rich kids with special needs continuing to get world class services. Working class and poor kids in the same situation could go stick it. That sounds very moral and Judeo-Christian to me.

And don't stop there. Despite the fact that we know extra-curricular activities correlate with academic performance, let's dump support for those two. I mean, let's just "free market" every aspect of the system and make it ala carte. Then, when working class and poor kids don't do as many extra-curriculars, we can say, "See, they didn't want to do them anyway!" instead of "They are saving money for glasses, toilet paper, or food," or some such thing.

Land of the Free! Home of Neanderthals!

[Goodnight]

Originally Posted by PatDJohns

Get rid of tenure and you will see the BEST TEACHERS leave the profession in droves. My partner has been a teacher at Brentwood for 10 years now. We have talked about tenure because I myself, as somebody who works in the private sector, never really understood, I always thought it was a way to hide bad teachers. Its not, its a major incentive for good teachers to keep teaching.

Think of it this way, there is a smart and hard working young man in his early 30s. He could easily make his teacher salary in the private sector but chooses to teach due to the fringe benefits, especially job security in this crazy economy. Take away the job security and why wouldnt he join the private sector and make more $? The days off are nice but they aint keeping alot of qualified teachers in the field.

I thought it was orginally put in place to protect college professors from being fired because an administration didn't care for their philosophy or slant, not sure how this got to the high school level. I don't recall a rampant firiong of teachers at the high school level but maybe this goes back many years. When people speak of tenure they are really speaking of removing due process that is already enjoyed by most government employees.

I am not sure why a school district would fire a good hard working teacher but it appears in NY City the opposite circumstance has been the case. They have hundred's of tenured teachers that they cannot get rid of that are incapable of teaching, meanhwile they are laying off new grads with the budget cuts. I don't see that Long Island has that problem. Why does the UFTA support the rubber room teachers in NY City while sacrificing new grads?

[DeadPool1998]

Originally Posted by Goodnight

I thought it was orginally put in place to protect college professors from being fired because an administration didn't care for their philosophy or slant, not sure how this got to the high school level. I don't recall a rampant firiong of teachers at the high school level but maybe this goes back many years. When people speak of tenure they are really speaking of removing due process that is already enjoyed by most government employees.

I am not sure why a school district would fire a good hard working teacher but it appears in NY City the opposite circumstance has been the case. They have hundred's of tenured teachers that they cannot get rid of that are incapable of teaching, meanhwile they are laying off new grads with the budget cuts. I don't see that Long Island has that problem. Why does the UFTA support the rubber room teachers in NY City while sacrificing new grads?

This is about ideas. It's also about protecting people from capricious firing. I just explained how Florida chases people out of their districts. When the Christers figure out that they can harass and sack teachers for teaching evolution - they will.

[VA Yankee]

Originally Posted by PreciousMonster

Another huge reason that education is so expensive is the federal/state mandates put on schools. Consider special education. Special education triples the cost of a student, it does not prepare them for the real world. If we did away with special education/resource, we would save an incredible amount of money.

Another idea I have it to make parents pay a fee to pay for clubs/after school activities if they want them to be funded through the school. If parents don't want to foot the bill, get rid of the after school activity.

Schools and communities have the obligation to provide an adequate education for those with special needs. That said the key words are adequate education not the finest money can buy. Too often there are parents suing school districts to have their child placed in a private enviroment because they feel the district can't provide whats needed. I can't see any student who wouldn't benefit from a small, personalized enviroment tailored to their learning style/needs.

Fees for clubs/sports are fine within reason but what happens in districts where there is a lower income demographic feeding the schools? Will that school not have any sports teams or clubs? Would an alternative method to pay the dues be available like cleaning up schools grounds.

On the original post subject if enrollement numbers have gone down then why should the teaching positions be retained? Is not teacher positions based on the number of students? It appears (like in my day) that the unions have the districts in a strangle hold and would rather see the kids suffer than give an inch.

Just my thoughts...

[Goodnight]

Originally Posted by DeadPool1998

This is about ideas. It's also about protecting people from capricious firing. I just explained how Florida chases people out of their districts. When the Christers figure out that they can harass and sack teachers for teaching evolution - they will.

I was speaking of NY but I think you are creating a need for protection that may not exist. Why would a district fire a teacher that is doing a a great job. Why is the UFT Asupporting incompetence in NY City.

[FrmlyBklyn]

Originally Posted by Goodnight

I was speaking of NY but I think you are creating a need for protection that may not exist. Why would a district fire a teacher that is doing a a great job. Why is the UFT Asupporting incompetence in NY City.

Because the UFT is run by incompetence! The same incompetent teachers are the members of their "advisory council" at large. I can't tell you the number of times I had conversations with some UFT members telling them they were out of touch with their compensation demands - well, now it has all come home to roost!

UFT is a dues hogging political machine only interested in one thing - keep the cash coming in, to do that they need the most members who would be beholden to it and that means keeping lots of deadwood around. They could give two @&#!s about the kids.

[DeadPool1998]

Originally Posted by Goodnight

I was speaking of NY but I think you are creating a need for protection that may not exist. Why would a district fire a teacher that is doing a a great job. Why is the UFT Asupporting incompetence in NY City.

A district would fire a good teacher because of expense just like they avoid hiring good, experienced teachers because of expense. This whole thread is about expense - not quality.

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by woody516

I don't know what the answer is for tenure...But if you end tenure, I GUARANTEE you that you will not get the best teachers. You WILL, however, all of a sudden see an increase in teachers with the same last names as those of the people serving on the boards of education. LOL

Are you kidding?

It's already like that within the ranks of teachers, administrators, and school superintendants on LI.

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by Goodnight

I thought it was orginally put in place to protect college professors from being fired because an administration didn't care for their philosophy or slant, not sure how this got to the high school level. I don't recall a rampant firiong of teachers at the high school level but maybe this goes back many years. When people speak of tenure they are really speaking of removing due process that is already enjoyed by most government employees.

I am not sure why a school district would fire a good hard working teacher but it appears in NY City the opposite circumstance has been the case. They have hundred's of tenured teachers that they cannot get rid of that are incapable of teaching, meanhwile they are laying off new grads with the budget cuts. I don't see that Long Island has that problem. Why does the UFTA support the rubber room teachers in NY City while sacrificing new grads?

It's not only on the high school level, it's all the way down to kindergarten level.

To keep those pension numbers sky high for the old warhorses.

[DeadPool1998]

Originally Posted by Goodnight

I am not sure why a school district would fire a good hard working teacher but it appears in NY City the opposite circumstance has been the case. They have hundred's of tenured teachers that they cannot get rid of that are incapable of teaching, meanhwile they are laying off new grads with the budget cuts. I don't see that Long Island has that problem. Why does the UFTA support the rubber room teachers in NY City while sacrificing new grads?

Again, I'm a pretty reasonable guy. I like tenure and I think teachers should be paid well. Do I think the unions make too damn many mistakes? Absolutely. These rubber rooms are an embarrassment. It's one thing to remove a teacher until s/he gets a hearing (like desk duty for a cop). It's quite another to leave them there indefinitely.

I also think they should come together with the state and try to find a way that teachers can validly and reliably be assessed and removed when they are no good.