100's of Teachers in Suffolk Might Lose Jobs (crime, lawyers)

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but

Where is that? What grade does your SIL teach? The high schools where I live have this:

3V has the Parent Portal for all grade levels. I can see what tests, quizzes and HW is coming up or due, up-to-date grades, and email links to all of the teachers the student has.

[Quick Commenter]

Originally Posted by tomonlineli

Yeah, I remember those "senior" teachers and their cognitive decision to voluntarily not know how to use a VCR when showing a video. I had a 9th grade teacher that was retiring the year I had her, and she had to bring in one of those "inexperienced" younger teachers to teach us how to use the scientific calculators.

Younger people are more apt to incorporate technology, have more energy, and more more accepting of change. All traits that are valued in the teaching profession. Again, I ask why I should pay someone with 30 years in the system twice as much to do the same job?

I was thinking that the newer commenters on this site must be better then the veterans because we all know that newer people have got the newer ideas and are better at technology don't we?

[Quick Commenter]

Originally Posted by tomonlineli

Yeah, I remember those "senior" teachers and their cognitive decision to voluntarily not know how to use a VCR when showing a video. I had a 9th grade teacher that was retiring the year I had her, and she had to bring in one of those "inexperienced" younger teachers to teach us how to use the scientific calculators.

Younger people are more apt to incorporate technology, have more energy, and more more accepting of change. All traits that are valued in the teaching profession. Again, I ask why I should pay someone with 30 years in the system twice as much to do the same job?

I don't know about any of your broad generalizations. I suspect some of the folks on this site might not be what you would think of as 'young' but they seem to utilize technology, comment energetically, and certainly (except the odd, ahem, one or two) seem open to new ideas or input. Oh, and lots of parents use their kids to show them how to use technological devices, VCRs, cable boxes, remotes, cell phones, etc - I am not sure that makes the kids better parents.

[NYEconomist]

Originally Posted by Quick Commenter

I was thinking that the newer commenters on this site must be better then the veterans because we all know that newer people have got the newer ideas and are better at techinology don't we?

Do your grandparents post on C-D?

Do you think they would be as proficient at teaching students as you by utilizing computers, tablet pcs, Powerpoint, websites, digital projectors, streaming video and other technological innovations that boost education production?

[VA Yankee]

Maybe a balanced approach of experienced teachers that appear to still be relevant, not in the x years and counting rut and younger teachers that have proven to be relevent. Assuming all new teachers are not as capable would be wrong. That said looking back I think some of the worst teachers I experienced in school were older tenured teachers who couldn't teach but couldn't be fired because of the union. Like the rest of the real world those that perform get to continue those that don't measure up are given the chance to find a new career/job.

[Quick Commenter]

Originally Posted by tomonlineli

Do your grandparents post on C-D?

Do you think they would be as proficient at teaching students as you by utilizing computers, tablet pcs, Powerpoint, websites, digital projectors, streaming video and other technological innovations that boost education production?

My grandparents died fifty years ago thanks for asking. My grandchildren are pretty good at that stuff and so am I ...what is your point?

[KarenBo]

Originally Posted by tomonlineli

No, your opinion is good enough to convince me?

How much of a difference do you think they make? Do you think a teacher with 30 years experience on Long Island, making upwards of $120,000, produces students with test scores that are double a teacher with 5 years experience making $60,000?

Your opinion is well thought out and makes sense. I just disagree. You forgot to add that senior teachers tend to experience burn out, become more complacent in keeping their skills sharp, lose that eagerness that new teachers tend to have, get flustered by years of angry parents and lazy kids, lose the energy level that is needed to be an educator, care less about student score because they don't have to justify their position, and lose focus of working as retirement comes in to focus. All of these points for why they are less productive are just as justifiable as why you think they are more productive. However, I have the simple fact that the newer teacher costs the taxpayers significantly less.

I have been teaching for 7 years - in NYC not out here so I'm not personally responsible for our taxes - and I can tell you that I'm still learning what it takes to be a good teacher. In all honesty, my first 3 to 5 years of teaching were really tough - its a steep learning curve and I still don't feel I'm all the way "there yet." Every year I feel that I improve.

So in order to have those cheaper 5 year teachers - you basically have to go through several years of less productive, less effective, but eager teaching. Is it really cost effective to keep starting over with inexperienced teachers just to save money when your teaching doesn't really develop until you're several years in?

Yes, burnout occurs, but more of it happens in those first five years which is why most teachers who leave the profession leave it by year five. So if your turnover rate decreases after year five, it would seem that there is a self-selection occurring in favor of teachers who really have what it takes in the long term.

Do people become complacent? Sure - but that is part of the reason that the permanent certification was dropped and now teachers have to renew their "professional" certification by proving continual professional development and training. School administrators could supplement this by doing away with the boring in-house professional development days that don't really say anything new under the sun in favor of teaching the new technology available.

I'll never get that 120,000 salary you speak of, because NYC salaries are capped at 100,000 and I'm sure that some people will argue that even that is excessive but the fact is, unless you want the teaching field to become like the Peace Corps with young people doing 3 to 5 year tours of duty, there has to be some progression of salary in order to attract strong candidates to the field. I really believe that working with children (in my case, teenagers) is a calling, and true profession that takes skill and passion, not just youthful energy.

I think that problems in the education field are myriad, and teacher salaries, while getting a lot of press, should be secondary to fixing the real problems of poor achievement and drop-out rates. If I were granted three wishes to improve schools I would reinstate phonics, spelling and grammar education to the elementary schools; I would eliminate a lot of the standardized testing in favor of student portfolios that demonstrate meeting the standards; and I would do away with private and charter schools who have the ability to subtly discriminate and expel students. (Check their websites - do they translate into other languages? Do they offer special education?)

I believe that if all schools were made up of exactly the same socio-economic, ethnic, and ability backgrounds that everyone - administration, teachers, and parents would be more invested in improving schools for everyone instead of perpetuating the economic class system. If students were getting the skills they need at each level there would be improvements in so many other areas including graduation rates, of course, but also things like crime rates, etc.

I could go on (but I won't) because even after 7 years I'm still passionate about my profession - actually even more so than when I first started.

[Quick Commenter]

Originally Posted by Quick Commenter

My grandparents died fifty years ago thanks for asking. My grandchildren are pretty good at that stuff and so am I ...what is your point?

I had no idea our educational system was improving while utilizing those gadgets. I thought students are now LESS proficient at reading and writing and mathematics- I guess I am reading the wrong papers.

[Goodnight]

Originally Posted by Quick Commenter

I had no idea our educational system was improving while utilizing those gadgets. I thought students are now LESS proficient at reading and writing and mathematics- I guess I am reading the wrong papers.

I always have to laugh when I hear about all technology making kids smarter, smart boards, internet, etc and of course everyone needs to be wired. Granted the access to information is a great benefit (hopefully correct info) but if you walk into a library or watch teenagers with a laptop they spend most of their time on facebook and other social networks. Information is not education and it seems to be used in the wrong way and is dumbing down rather than improving students.

[7CatMom]

Originally Posted by tomonlineli

No, your opinion is good enough to convince me? As much as your opinion doesn't convince me?

How much of a difference do you think they make? Do you think a teacher with 30 years experience on Long Island, making upwards of $120,000, produces students with test scores that are double a teacher with 5 years experience making $60,000? Now you're bringing in another factor, students willingness to learn what the teacher is teaching! I don't believe that "just" test scores define a good teacher from a bad one.

Your opinion is well thought out and makes sense. I just disagree. You forgot to add that senior teachers tend to experience burn out, become more complacent in keeping their skills sharp, lose that eagerness that new teachers tend to have, get flustered by years of angry parents and lazy kids, lose the energy level that is needed to be an educator, care less about student score because they don't have to justify their position, and lose focus of working as retirement comes in to focus. All of these points for why they are less productive are just as justifiable as why you think they are more productive. And that is a very subjective opinion of yours. Not all teachers at the end of their careers behave in this manner, so you are making a huge generalization here. However, I have the simple fact that the newer teacher costs the taxpayers significantly less.

Now yes, that is a very simple fact (cost) that can be applied to any profession/job in America. Is that supposed to be the best way to run any business/school district/profession? Cheaper is better? If your sole goal is to run on less money, then fine, your fact wins the case. But for education at least, it doesn't always correlate. Sure there are places or ways to run a district less expensively, and perhaps even for some subjects, cheaper might not make that much of a difference. But generally, for teachers, cheaper isn't always better.
And I would think you'd have to agree with that fact - but I won't count on it!