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Old 02-25-2011, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,408 posts, read 33,180,143 times
Reputation: 7337

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... they had a more draconian measure planned, but changed it to be more like Wisconsin:

Quote:
In Ohio, Republican state senators offered a concession, pushing the bill announced this week that they will reinstate collective bargaining for wages only, not for other benefits. But those lawmakers also expanded the law's proposed prohibition on strikes to apply to all public workers, including teachers. The original measure applied the ban on strikes only to public-safety personnel.
Wisconsin Assembly passes budget bill
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Old 02-25-2011, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,408 posts, read 33,180,143 times
Reputation: 7337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crookhaven View Post
Just watch it unfold.

Mark my words.

Crooks
Will do!
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Old 02-25-2011, 04:51 PM
 
939 posts, read 1,838,307 times
Reputation: 509
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomonlineli View Post
Yes, the "criminals" on Wall St destroyed their pensions. I mean...c'mon. I invite you to think for yourself instead of spatting off some bullet point that you read in the Huffington Post. The market goes up and down and a lot of these pensions weren't complaining when they were seeing 20% gains in the 1990s. No investment company in the world would make the promise that the NYS pension gives to their patrons of a guaranteed rate of return of 8%.

Unfortunately, when NYS was guaranteeing pensions to people in the last century, they didn't realize that people would be collecting for longer than they put into the system. That's a big oops, like calculating the geometry for the Mars Lander in feet but inputting it in meters. By the time they realized this was going to be a problem, the unions had gotten a stranglehold on the political landscape of NY and there was no way it was changing until we are on the event horizon looking down into the abyss. We are now at that point.

It's not Wall St's fault, and that is a very lazy argument to point your finger at the wealthy. The funny part is that Wall St works for the for shareholders of companies, which are held in funds like your 401k, 403b, or the NYS pension plan. So, Wall St works for you and I with one goal in mind. Make as much money for us as they can. So, when you blame Wall St, you can just turn your finger back around and point it at yourself.
Sorry, but there's no "guaranteed rate of return of 8%" to the patrons of the NYS retirement system. The 8% (and now 7.5%) is a target return used by NY and virtually every other state in the country as one piece of the process to determine pension funding requirements. (And over several decades, it has been a fairly accurate assumption of investment returns.) In addition to investment returns, other factors include: member contributions; number of active members in the system; number of retirees in the system; retiree longevity, etc. The target rate of return has varied throughout the years as economic conditions dictate.

Last edited by pdcnret; 02-25-2011 at 05:44 PM..
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:07 PM
 
7,658 posts, read 19,100,706 times
Reputation: 1325
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
Will do!
Tomorrows the death knell.

Crooks
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:24 PM
 
5,391 posts, read 7,193,523 times
Reputation: 2857
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
Why are you laughing?

Wisconsin Assembly passes budget bill

It passed.
It passed the Wisconsin Assembly. It now goes to the Wisconsin Senate, where they don't have a quorum to bring it to a vote due to the MIA Democratic senators. So "it passed" doesn't mean it is law.

Although it probably will be, eventually.
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Long Island (chief in S Farmingdale)
22,103 posts, read 19,306,500 times
Reputation: 5254
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
... they had a more draconian measure planned, but changed it to be more like Wisconsin:



Wisconsin Assembly passes budget bill
As Robbobobbo stated, it passed the State Assembly. The State Assembly was never part of the debate. It was always expected to pass the State Assembly. The bill would also need to pass the State Senate before reaching Walker's desk, and fortunately that doesn't seem like its going to happen anytime soon.
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Long Island
56,837 posts, read 25,771,452 times
Reputation: 15423
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdcnret View Post
Sorry, but there's no "guaranteed rate of return of 8%" to the patrons of the NYS retirement system. The 8% (and now 7.5%) is a target return used by NY and virtually every other state in the country as one piece of the process to determine pension funding requirements. (And over several decades, it has been a fairly accurate assumption of investment returns.) In addition to investment returns, other factors include: member contributions; number of active members in the system; number of retirees in the system; retiree longevity, etc.
You are right it is a target but it was obviously overstated the last 8 years and now there are shortfalls in all the systems that the taxpayers are being asked to cover. Still not sure how you achieve even a 7.5% rate of return, but call it what you like the taxpayer still needs to cover the shorfalls below 8% target.

They should have never invested in the stockmarket and employee contributions should have been increased the last few years. If we didn't go to Tier 5 in NY it would have been much worse, pension system should never be based on the stock market, hopefully things will change.
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Long Island
56,837 posts, read 25,771,452 times
Reputation: 15423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redd Jedd View Post
I think people loose sight of the fact that unions just didn't reachi in and take everything that they have. Someone was on the other side of the table giving it to them. And folks in Nassau County know it was not always the GOP.

This is why I see no need to revoke the right of collective bargining or change how unions elect their members and collect their dues. Who ever is on the other side of the table needs to bargin better on behalf of the people.
It really doesn't matter who is on the other side of the table in Nassau the deck is stacked against them with binding arbitration, triborough amendment and politicians on both sides that welcome union backing. Wisconsin looks pretty good compared to what we have, do you recall any union negotiations where things worked out for the better? The only time they make concessions are when they volunteer on their own.
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:54 PM
 
939 posts, read 1,838,307 times
Reputation: 509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
You are right it is a target but it was obviously overstated the last 8 years and now there are shortfalls in all the systems that the taxpayers are being asked to cover. Still not sure how you achieve even a 7.5% rate of return, but call it what you like the taxpayer still needs to cover the shorfalls below 8% target.

They should have never invested in the stockmarket and employee contributions should have been increased the last few years. If we didn't go to Tier 5 in NY it would have been much worse, pension system should never be based on the stock market, hopefully things will change.
While the past few years have a rate of return of less than 8%, there were many years in the recent past when the return was more than 20% -- and the target figure was still 8%. According to an August, 2010 Bloomberg report while the last 10 years may have only brought a 3% annual return, the last 20 year return exceeded 8% annually. In fact, the median annual return for state plans in the 25 years ending with 2009 was 9.25 percent, according to the National Association of State Retirement Administrators. Those assumption numbers do fluctuate according to market conditions. The rate was as high as 8.75 percent in 1989 through 1997, and was as low as 4.87 percent in the years before 1975.

The shortfalls in the system have more to do with the State not requiring municipal contributions during the good years than they do with a target rate of return. Had they required the payments, there wouldn't be the need to bill municipalities such large sums this year and next.

Last edited by pdcnret; 02-25-2011 at 06:08 PM..
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Old 02-25-2011, 06:07 PM
 
7,658 posts, read 19,100,706 times
Reputation: 1325
Cops' massive retirement payouts cause outrage in Nassau

This is the stuff that makes Unions look evil.

Shame on NCPD.
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