Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No not any or all of them, just a greater chance of the negative happening (and you're pushing for more) and a gun is NEVER a good thing just like no good can come from drinking.
Let me understand something... say you're a CCW sitting at a fast food restaurant when one or two guys come in brandishing guns. They may ask for everyone's wallets. Do you escalate it having others potentially in the crossfire or let them leave with what they came for? Does every CCW make the same decision? Do you really want to leave that up to them?
Or do you wait till the robbers tell everyone to lay down, face first on the floor. Happened a few years ago IIRC in NYC - killed all the employees.
My and my families life are the responsibilities of ME - not the police, state or federal government ( RE Supreme Court decision). I want the same ability to protect myself and my family from criminal scum as the police do - after all they are just citizens as well.
Or do you wait till the robbers tell everyone to lay down, face first on the floor. Happened a few years ago IIRC in NYC - killed all the employees.
My and my families life are the responsibilities of ME - not the police, state or federal government ( RE Supreme Court decision). I want the same ability to protect myself and my family from criminal scum as the police do - after all they are just citizens as well.
Don't be a sheep.
Well every thought I put there was thinking for myself, including the questions I posed for you guys. I don't know why you think that's a sheep mentality.
The workers who were killed, after store closing, were all employees like you said. Now which one of those Wendy's workers would have a weapon at work, where would they secure that, and how would they get to it when barged in on? If you're a customer and they come in, at what point do you know they'd actually shoot you - when do you make the decision to escalate? Do you pull your gun out against 2+ armed assailants as they ask you to get on the floor not knowing what's next? I'm not sure what your thinking is there. Sure you can protect yourself but it can lead to very bad things just the same if you, or the avg joe citizen, make the wrong decision or read a situation incorrectly in a room full of other people you have no right to decide for.
I would've turned around to the male w the knife and went "meep meep!" and ran off like the road runner...this always worked against 'wile e coyote' . . .
Well every thought I put there was thinking for myself, including the questions I posed for you guys. I don't know why you think that's a sheep mentality.
The workers who were killed, after store closing, were all employees like you said. Now which one of those Wendy's workers would have a weapon at work, where would they secure that, and how would they get to it when barged in on? If you're a customer and they come in, at what point do you know they'd actually shoot you - when do you make the decision to escalate? Do you pull your gun out against 2+ armed assailants as they ask you to get on the floor not knowing what's next? I'm not sure what your thinking is there. Sure you can protect yourself but it can lead to very bad things just the same if you, or the avg joe citizen, make the wrong decision or read a situation incorrectly in a room full of other people you have no right to decide for.
Thankfully I live in a free state. No oppressive gun control laws, and a minimal amount of .gov interference in life/business/etc.
It's perfectly legal here to carry ( openly or concealed ) a firearm pretty much anyplace other than inside a court room ( you can carry into the court house, but obviously not beyond the security check point).
Guess what - there is no blood running in the streets, and you don't hear of law abiding gun owners accidental shooting people of getting into "shoot outs".
Having a firearm to protect myself is akin to wearing a seat belt, having insurance, or wearing a helmet. We don't need laws mandating using or not using one or the other. We need the freedom to choose, and to assume the responsibility to accept the repercussions of our choices..
Long time reader, first time poster. I've been reading this thread and have to comment on this.
I agree with what rh71 is saying. I think your basis for comparison, the Wendys Massacre, is not fair but actually further illustrates rh's point. I remember the Wendy's case very well, and God Bless the dead but a little common street smarts could have prevented that.
There's a difference between a crowded restaurant being robbed and a fast food joint getting taken down at closing time with only employees present. For those unfamiliar with the case let me outline specifics:
Staff at Wendys was cleaning up, two seedy black guys walk in and ask for the manager by name. One goes downstairs to the managers office, the other stays up and talks to the staff, flirts with the girl, then the manager calls an impromptu meeting...the two survivors remembered wondering why a meeting would be called so late. Well it goes back to what has been said earlier on this thread...if it walks like a duck..you're safe upstairs, there's two strange seedy characters and one of them is downstairs in the BASEMENT where you are a sitting duck...I would not have gone down there. I also doubt anyone working at Wendys would be CCW qualified..??
If I'm sitting in a crowded restaurant with my family and two guys burst in making demands, heat or no heat I'm staying calm and complying, for the sake of my family as well as the other customers. If some overzealous idiot CCW just ups and starts firing, he BETTER take out the perps. Chances are there will be some civilian casualties, maybe some dear to me, either way, I wouldn't want my family to bear witness, nor have to explain to my kids that going Paul Kersey is not the way to handle things in that situation.
Arm yourselves with common sense, and you won't be a statistic. Simple.
Perhaps if someone would've been carrying a firearm, the moment the suspects presented a gun along with the attempt to tie and gag people up, maybe, just maybe, that person could've taken a chance at saving themselves and everyone else.
Instead, no one ever had a chance to save themselves or others. All because of the draconian gun laws of NYS said to protect people. The only ones the laws are protecting are the criminals.
I'll continue to carry my G19 in my MTAC daily - just in case. Just like I wear my seat bel, helmet, and carry personal health and life insurance, along with insurance for my business - just in case.
^ there's a lot of me, me, me, me in those words about living in a free state, etc. Only those who carry feel safe and even then you may be dead before some of us because, just like a cop, you could be putting yourself at greater risk by taking greater risk.
Some states don't even require training. Whether you are trained or not, smart or not, does not affect Joe Schmoe in the next state over. This is mostly about empowering MORE people - because that is what the lack of gun control will result in. Same deal - we've presented the reasons why we don't want [Joe Schmoe] X [everyone-else-who-wants-a-weapon-because-it's-allowed] to be making life & death decisions around us.
And answer which Wendy's employee could be carrying a concealed weapon in their uniform so they could heroicly save their friends...
Answer why that person would draw a weapon when all they knew at the time was that they were being robbed, not killed. You draw the weapon, you're ready to shoot to kill right away. Is that what you would do as soon as someone on the street approaches you asking for your wallet? You don't see why someone standing by you wouldn't want that? Are we being too prudish about what guns can do? Are we not trusting enough of random people?
Guns affect other people. Your seat belt or helmet do not.
Damn, all those service men and women who could have been saved if they only knew to run in a zig zag pattern.
No, if someone is shooting at you, run for the first object that you can hid behind. Put an object between their line of sight of the weapon and you. Running a zig zag pattern will just mean you'll be shot and out of breath.
Much of the newly prevalent tide of those of us who feel that arming oneself is the answer to ensuring our personal safety,
is borne of the understanding that our society has been drastically changing, and not for the better. The people in the streets are not
of the same mindset, as were their parents, societal values have declined, we've taken on a cadre of foreigners who've brought their
third-world values into our inner cities, bringing us down as a once proud people. The complexion of our society has been blighted by
an invasion, of those who come to America with the thought that the laws of our system will accomodate them in whatever situation
they make for themselves. It's bad enough that they don't care about themselves, but they seem to know that, by and large, we as
citizens, don't really care about them either.
Reading Newsday this morning, I found an interesting article on page A16, "Police link gun to four murders". The pistol which was
the subject of the article, was the same gun which was used in the execution styled slaying, of three young adults in Newark, 2007.
The pistol was seized from a MS-13 member from Bay Shore, an illegal who is implicated in a drive-by shooting. The perp, is a named
Alvaro Delgado and he's involved in a federal racketeering case currently being tried in Brooklyn, along with his two co-defendants,
Oscar Fuentes and Julio Chavez. Somehow, I can't help but get the feeling that the right to bear arms should be directly proportunate
to the need to bear arms, and I sense that the time is ripe for the citizen to abandon faith in the ability of "authority", to deal with these
issues of personal safety that must be faced in these days. I think that although Dodge City was closed down long ago, Doc Holliday
passed on, John Dillinger was shot, we've come full cycle once again and allowed lawlessness to permeate our society. No, not through
lax gun laws but through our politicians who've slept on their watches, allowing the pollution of our society by the uncaring immigrant
who becomes the beneficiary, even if they murder someone and get a 30 year sentence in one of our country-club prisons.
Maybe JIW is not too far off base when he poses the initial question, "to carry or not to carry, that is the question". I certainly do
agree with his feelings on the issue of illegal immigrants but cannot truly understand his fervence, his very mission. Often, when I read
the "book of John (in Westbury), I see images within my head, of Don Quixote, his beloved horse Roscinante being an MTA bus and Don,
charging the Latino's windmill, full force. I guess that there are those among us who should get a gun, but I just know, that there are
also those here, who should just get a life.
A Westbury man was arrested on burglary and robbery charges after he broke into a house early Thursday, punched a man in the face and stole his laptop computer, Nassau County police said.
Now if only the victim had a gun under a pillow, he too might have had the privilege of being arrested along with the burglar.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
who should just get a life.
When is the last time anyone heard from JIW?
