U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > Long Island
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
 
Old 03-20-2011, 05:33 PM
 
924 posts, read 1,057,030 times
Reputation: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by VA Yankee View Post
IT is a good example but as an industry it was quite bloated and over priced making the "outsource" appear to be a more cost efficent option. Now as stated "quality sucks" but in many ways so did the original system that was in place. During the IT boom many people would jump ship after several months because of a better offer, it didn't improve customer service just added to the bubble.....which collapsed. Now the industry has adjusted, costs are down and outsourcing is not such a good option anymore. Those that are still in the industry are more realistic on what to expect with their jobs.

That said teaching is not going to be outsourced. I don't believe that giving some conscessions with your pay/benefits is going to cause a mass exodus of teachers or a diminishment of quality. Teachers in our region have experienced pay freezes, pay cuts, furlows and no one left. They are dedicated and realize that all sectors are being affected. If opportunities were better in the private sector than many would have left allready for greener pastures. Teaching contracts normally prohibit leaving during the contract period for another job unless a release is obtained.

I am not a teacher but work for a school district in a none teaching role..
#1 in Education Spending and #34 in results. I don't think it's a race to the bottom, I think we're already there.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-20-2011, 05:56 PM
 
1,615 posts, read 2,067,994 times
Reputation: 1056
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post

But even middle clas jobs have not always kept up. I work with retirement accounts in a local bank and I make less than the $100k mentioned above. Most of my fellow bank employees; Managers, Asst Managers, tellers, CSRs etc. may make even less. We have to pay for a large part of our health benefits, we lost our pensions a few years ago and they even match less of our 401k then they used too. In order to save jobs, we have not received a raise in two years.
.
Classic example of people choosing the wrong career path, failing miserably, and harboring disdain.

no one owes you for your mistakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by comsewoguefam View Post
My husbands degree initially was in business and he went back to school to obtain a masters in Special Education along with certifications in many other subjects. Teaching special education and behavior problem children in an economically challenged school district is as rewarding as it is exhausting, but you will NEVER hear him ***** or complain. He loves the kids and his job.
Sounds like you do plenty of complaining for him.

must be a blast listening to it.

Last edited by LongIslandCitizen; 03-20-2011 at 06:13 PM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-20-2011, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
15,556 posts, read 15,426,804 times
Reputation: 6255
Quote:
Originally Posted by twingles View Post
If it's not the teachers it's their family members

Obviously he's capable of doing something else, since he did. If it was so much better and lucrative doing that maybe he should go back.
Ya think?

I don't know what to believe, twingles. Too many of that person's statements contradict themselves.

My husband owned a business in California before he became a teacher and did very well out there

Yet:

My husband is buying his first home this year and is very excited to be doing so after working for 20 years ... we are trying to buy our first home and my husband is in his 40's

A late bloomer for sure. I'm sure the husband says "God bless the public school teachers' union!"
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-20-2011, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
15,556 posts, read 15,426,804 times
Reputation: 6255
Quote:
Originally Posted by comsewoguefam View Post
My husband is buying his first home this year and is very excited to be doing so ... I previously owned my own home for years ... I was 23 years old making not much less than my 40 something year old husband makes now. I bought a home
Do you live in an alternative universe on Long Island? One where each spouse can expect to buy their own home on their own separate income?

You poor mouthed:

Quote:
Originally Posted by comsewoguefam View Post
We are trying to buy our first home and my husband is in his 40's. We drive used cars and do not use credit cards at all. We have children and would love to be able to own our own home
Yet bragged:

Quote:
Originally Posted by comsewoguefam View Post
My husband is buying his first home this year and is very excited to be doing so after working for 20 years and being debt free for the last five.
Sorry you have to drive used cars though. We will all hold hands and pray that the property taxes increase in whatever school district your husband teaches in so that he can afford to pay cash for brand new cars for you both. God forbid you have a car loan!

Sounds like you're doing pretty good. Debt free for 5 years. Husband buying a home on his sole income.

Quote:
Originally Posted by comsewoguefam View Post
Taking a pay freeze or a pay cut/freeze would hurt us tremendously!
Of course it's not good enough, as per the above complaint, as if you're living on the edge, from paycheck to paycheck, barely managing to survive ... I have never read anything like this before ... reminds me of the old saying about speaking out of both sides of their mouth. Who knows what is reality.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-20-2011, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Massapequa Park
3,173 posts, read 3,117,762 times
Reputation: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenBo View Post
If you believe that conditions won't revert to what they were pre-unions then perhaps you are out of touch with reality. But I hope not to find out. ...In terms of the teachers, I have worked with Principals who I would not trust if I did not have union protections. How many threads on this site have talked about the rampant nepotism of the school system - and that's with the protection of the union. As it is, its difficult to get hired unless you know someone. If you got rid of the unions and the tenure system, I don't doubt that the problem would worsen and qualified teachers would be removed to make way for either younger cheaper teachers or simply teachers that know the right person.
Modern labor and wage laws will prevent the "doomsday-sweatshops-coming-to-america-Unions-are-the-answer" situation from happening. This isn't the 1950's. If a worker is worth his/her salt, they should not need a union to force society to pay unreasonable compensation, protect bad employees, and to keep employees from going above-and-beyond their job titles.


Quote:
I never said that there wasn't a problem. What I said was that people would be more likely to get more concessions if they actually appreciated when the unions made concessions in the first place instead of immediately complaining that the concessions weren't enough. And yes, I still think its an obvious point that most people will not willingly offer up a pay cut. I think that their offer of a salary freeze should be viewed as a positive.

As for comparing free market to public, you started that comparison. I never said that contracts were the norm, I simply stated a fact that there is some negotiation of salary in the free market. Its simply done on an individual basis. And your explanation that the public decides your salary is way too simplistic. Also, in the private sector, if your boss tells you that your salary is being cut then you have the option of going elsewhere while remaining in your field. Not exactly the case for public employees.
You made the comparison first on pg2 here , and you still fail to realize that most people do not get to "choose" their salaries.

The problem with union concessions is, they are not real concessions. Giving up a pay raise is not the same as reverting salaries back to bubble times 4-5 years ago. Most unions have grown too fast for the taxpayers to handle the expenses. We simply can't afford it anymore.

Quote:
The appeal of the public sector, has always been its reliability and steadiness in times of economic turmoil. While the appeal of the private sector is that you can usually get higher salaries and bonuses, but with the added risks associated with economic downturns.
If you're comparing the public vs private sector again, the public sector makes 30%-43% more (depending on which study we use) than private sector workers. Not including pensions and healthcare for life benefits. The appeal of the public sector is now the much higher salaries and ridiculous benefits.

Quote:
I'm not an idiot, and I'm not out of touch, I'm saying that the "root of the problem" isn't just one thing. Roots, since that's your metaphor, have multiple branches and we need to look at all of them. Teacher salaries are one issue but there are a whole host of other issues that we can also explore.

Remember when the lottery was started and the goal was for it to help pay for education? I see people in the convenience store every day buying tons of lotto tickets. I can't find anything that traces any of that money back to education the way it was originally intended. Maybe it does but who is overseeing that? Perhaps, you don't think that this is as important or as immediate as teacher salaries to discuss but if you direct all of your energies into just one area you are limiting the possibilities for solutions.
High taxes are the elephant in the room when discussing problems on Long Island (and NY). And yes, they are the root of the problem.
The 'FYIGM' NY attitude isn't an accident..has a lot to do with unions/public sector abuse/big govt/corrupt politician abuses over the last 70 years. Why do you think NY'ers are hated in most states around the country?

NY M.O. = "FYIGM, someone's gotta pay for it" ...
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-20-2011, 06:21 PM
 
1,814 posts, read 1,320,803 times
Reputation: 625
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenBo View Post
I hear you, and maybe things are very different out here in terms of pensions so maybe someone can explain this fully. In NYC, teachers pay in to our pensions and the pensions are paid out from the accrued interest. So it is not the taxpayers money that pays pensions. Is that not the case here in Long Island?

As for healthcare and dental, in NYC the only "free" option is basic GHI any other plan above the basic, we pay in for. Dental is paid through part of our union dues. Again, is this different on Long Island?

If so, I can understand why some people feel this is unfair, however if it is done in the same way that it is handled in NYC then there is a misconception about how the tax $$ are used.

There's misconceptions in NYC, too. For example, there was something recently in the news about Bloomberg wanting to do away with the FDNY Christmas bonuses - which was not in fact a Christmas bonus but rather a payback of the interest on money that the city borrowed from the FDNY pensions which they invested and made a bundle on.

That's why it would be good to get a clarification on the pension system here. I suspect that it is similar to NYC but I can't say for sure since I'm not a part of it.
Not even close here on the Island. It varies from SD to SD and from tier to tier, but for the most part the teachers payins are extremely negligable compared to their payouts. Some other people know more about the specifics, I'm a general stats guy when it comes to things like this I look big picture instead of individual bargaining agreements. We do have SDs on the Island that ENSURE their teachers are top-paid (top 3 iirc) within their contracts to show you just how out of touch this stuff really is.

Like I said before, the average LI teacher is pulling in $20,000-$25,000 every year in benefits alone.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-20-2011, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
15,556 posts, read 15,426,804 times
Reputation: 6255
Quote:
Originally Posted by redrunner+2 View Post
You asked how expensive can childcare be. I gave you actual facts to support that. I suppose I should just hire an illegal nanny to pay a sub-standard wage and then hire some more illegals to mow my lawn and clean my house! Instead of taking the lazy way out and raising my kids, mowing my lawn and cleaning my own house!
I wasn't casting doubt on the fact that child care is expensive. I just felt the person was talking out of both sides of their mouth ... they earned less than it costs to pay a babysitter OR they were earning near what hubby makes as a teacher? Which is it?

I also don't think ALL MOMS WITH KIDS should work outside of the home. It is a personal choice for each family. I have no problem with stay at home moms who expect their husbands to support them. The ones who are complaining and demanding a two-income lifestyle on a single civil "servant" salary that is directly costing the taxpayers more and more and more each year are the ones who annoy me.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-20-2011, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
15,556 posts, read 15,426,804 times
Reputation: 6255
Quote:
Originally Posted by VA Yankee View Post
IT is a good example but as an industry it was quite bloated and over priced making the "outsource" appear to be a more cost efficent option. Now as stated "quality sucks" but in many ways so did the original system that was in place. During the IT boom many people would jump ship after several months because of a better offer, it didn't improve customer service just added to the bubble.....which collapsed. Now the industry has adjusted, costs are down and outsourcing is not such a good option anymore. Those that are still in the industry are more realistic on what to expect with their jobs.

That said teaching is not going to be outsourced. I don't believe that giving some conscessions with your pay/benefits is going to cause a mass exodus of teachers or a diminishment of quality. Teachers in our region have experienced pay freezes, pay cuts, furlows and no one left. They are dedicated and realize that all sectors are being affected. If opportunities were better in the private sector than many would have left allready for greener pastures. Teaching contracts normally prohibit leaving during the contract period for another job unless a release is obtained.

I am not a teacher but work for a school district in a none teaching role..
Well, around here if they have to give up one brown penny, they will immediately QUIT and become multi-millionaires on Wall Street instead. Because it's just that easy. If you work in the private sector, everyone knows you are a multi-millionaire.

I can't believe we can even get anyone willing to be a public school teacher on LI, when they could just as easily be multi-millionaires in the private sector working in super-posh offices in Manhattan with all their needs and wants handed to them on silver platters all day!

PS: For those who cannot recognize it (and I have had this happen before) -- Disclaimer -- SARCASM
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-20-2011, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Tri-State Area
2,919 posts, read 2,838,872 times
Reputation: 1740
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenBo View Post
I hear you, and maybe things are very different out here in terms of pensions so maybe someone can explain this fully. In NYC, teachers pay in to our pensions and the pensions are paid out from the accrued interest. So it is not the taxpayers money that pays pensions. Is that not the case here in Long Island?
That's not entirely accurate. Isn't it the teachers pay 3% of their salary for the first ten years only? It is the new crop of teachers who are required to pay for a longer time frame. However, paying 3% of a lower wage base; for the first 5 years a NYC school teacher makes roughly 50K, then it steps up, but again you are paying on a much lower wage base than when you exit the school system. A teacher with 30 years in, a Masters + 30 credits is currently maxed at $100,049. A pension of 60% gives you a 60K annual sum for a cheap price of roughly 15,000 over the first ten years of working - Sweet!!!! Tell us, where in the world is that kind of ponzi scheme offered? Accrued interest - meh! Those are some usurious rates you're earning there - Madoff couldn't even match those numbers. Not even Social Security offers those kind of returns!!
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-20-2011, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Where my bills arrive
3,337 posts, read 3,255,361 times
Reputation: 1908
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
Well, around here if they have to give up one brown penny, they will immediately QUIT and become multi-millionaires on Wall Street instead. Because it's just that easy. If you work in the private sector, everyone knows you are a multi-millionaire.

I can't believe we can even get anyone willing to be a public school teacher on LI, when they could just as easily be multi-millionaires in the private sector working in super-posh offices in Manhattan with all their needs and wants handed to them on silver platters all day!

PS: For those who cannot recognize it (and I have had this happen before) -- Disclaimer -- SARCASM
LOL....

I know most here that teach gave up the 6 figure incomes (no they weren't LI teachers) so they could have a job that allowed them to be free in the summer when their kids are home...lol

Just kidding...
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $79,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > Long Island
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top