Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
High taxes are the elephant in the room when discussing problems on Long Island (and NY). And yes, they are the root of the problem.
The 'FYIGM' NY attitude isn't an accident..has a lot to do with unions/public sector abuse/big govt/corrupt politician abuses over the last 70 years. Why do you think NY'ers are hated in most states around the country?
NY M.O. = "FYIGM, someone's gotta pay for it" ...
You are misunderstanding me or choosing not to...I'm saying that the root of the problem of high taxes isn't only the teacher salaries. Yes, school taxes are the largest part of our taxes. Teacher salaries are a part of those taxes. So are administrator salaries, support staff salaries, custodial staff salaries, and a whole host of other costs such as materials, etc. Its at least possible that there are ADDITIONAL avenues to explore regarding the management or mismanagement of tax $. I'm still curious to know where all that lottery money is going, since its supposed to help with education, especially considering all the money raked in by megamillions and powerball.
Once again, I find your comments over simplified. New Yorkers are hated because of labor unions?! I wasn't aware that labor unions were strictly a NY thing. Corruption?! I believe Chicago is at least if not more corrupt than NY has ever been.
Even the media has used the catch phrase, "Wall Street vs. Main Street" so just maybe the excesses of Wall Street and their effect on our overall economy due the mortgage crisis has more to do with our current standing in the country's eyes.
Or perhaps its more simply the fact that New Yorkers walk fast, talk fast, and don't tend to say hello to people they don't know because we live in a more densely populated area and we like to keep our distance. Or maybe its how we're portrayed on TV and in movies. Maybe its a whole host of reasons....
But no, of course you are right...it has to be the unions fault. Teachers should all take a massive pay cut and screw them if they can't pay the mortgages on their homes whose values have now plummeted due to the awesome people on Wall Street who still get to laugh their way all the way to the bank. That'll solve everything, and there will be no more problems in the world. Rainbows will fill the sky. The unicorns will return, and we'll all ride them into the sunset.
You are misunderstanding me or choosing not to...I'm saying that the root of the problem of high taxes isn't only the teacher salaries. Yes, school taxes are the largest part of our taxes. Teacher salaries are a part of those taxes. So are administrator salaries, support staff salaries, custodial staff salaries, and a whole host of other costs such as materials, etc. Its at least possible that there are ADDITIONAL avenues to explore regarding the management or mismanagement of tax $. I'm still curious to know where all that lottery money is going, since its supposed to help with education, especially considering all the money raked in by megamillions and powerball.
Once again, I find your comments over simplified. New Yorkers are hated because of labor unions?! I wasn't aware that labor unions were strictly a NY thing. Corruption?! I believe Chicago is at least if not more corrupt than NY has ever been.
Even the media has used the catch phrase, "Wall Street vs. Main Street" so just maybe the excesses of Wall Street and their effect on our overall economy due the mortgage crisis has more to do with our current standing in the country's eyes.
Or perhaps its more simply the fact that New Yorkers walk fast, talk fast, and don't tend to say hello to people they don't know because we live in a more densely populated area and we like to keep our distance. Or maybe its how we're portrayed on TV and in movies. Maybe its a whole host of reasons....
But no, of course you are right...it has to be the unions fault. Teachers should all take a massive pay cut and screw them if they can't pay the mortgages on their homes whose values have now plummeted due to the awesome people on Wall Street who still get to laugh their way all the way to the bank. That'll solve everything, and there will be no more problems in the world. Rainbows will fill the sky. The unicorns will return, and we'll all ride them into the sunset.
Peace
Because theres 50 teachers to every admin job, but we're probably all for cutting their pay too!
People are turning to Unions in the public sector because when they watch their friends not take a raise for 3 years, eek a living, and then see their two teacher friends go and buy a 500K+ home without batting an eye and find they got more in raises in 3 years then the normal person gets in 10, they yea people get pissed.
You keep deflecting to Wall Street. I suggest if you want to bang out and rail against the evil corporations the DU would be a better stomping ground. Over here many of us have actively been proponents of cutting back on teachers salary and compensation packages for over a decade now.
Ohh yeah, if someone who is teaching bought a home in the boom then I'd fire them immediately because they lack basic understandings. Then again, it would explain why they think 7-8% raises and around twice the benefit package as the rest of the schlubs is A-OK.
Seriously some of you people are unbelievable on here! Picking apart our entire lives word for word when I was just trying to clarify that teachers make different salaries and pay into their healthcare and retirement (amount varies by district and tier).
Every comment I have made has been analized rediculously to find inconsistencies that are not there. I have better things to do then make up stories on C-D! So to answer your digs -
Yes my husband is trying to buy his first home in the next six months hopefully it works out. Yes we are currently a one income family and are buying in a community that most people on here consider beneath them. The current payment we make now is a little less then we will be paying to own our own home.
When I worked childcare ate up a lot of my salary. I made good money but childcare is EXPENSIVE for two children full time from 7am to 6 pm, which is what I needed. I was paying over 2000k a month for years. Currently I do not work because of my husband schedule with coaching and teaching he is never home to help before or after school. It would be very difficult for me to be there for my older guys when they get on and off the bus and to be able to bring my little ones to childcare and get to and from work. Or we would be paying before and after school care and childcare which would be even more than the 2k. We decided that right now I would stay home until the little ones are in school.
My point about our vehicles is that we are not out buying Escalades and Volvos that we can't afford like many people do. We are not crazy spenders burning through our HUGE teachers salary!
My husband has paid off all of his student loans and debt from his younger years and now finally in his mid 40's he is in a place where he can afford to get a first time home buyers mortgage. And yes we know PLENTY of people on LI that are one income families that have purchased homes over the past ten years.
Yes after my husband got his bachelors degree he opened a business in CA and did well out there. Then he suffered two family tragedies here in NY and decided to move back to help his family. He went back to school for his masters in teaching because he had mentored low income kids in Cali and decided he wanted to teach and coach instead of being in business for the rest of his life. So he became a teacher just before he turned thirty - hence a late bloomer.
I never said anything about us "living on the edge" but giving back $4,500 a year would hurt any family on LI that I know of! That is groceries, gas, oil, almost two months rent for us, ect....
There are tier 1 and tier 2 teachers that have been teaching 30 or 40 years making 125k + and paying in nothing or barely anything to their health care and retirement. After 30 years I think those teachers should be required to retire without huge buyouts - that would save lots of money and jobs for the younger teachers starting out and trying to live on LI. Just a thought.
Honestly....how many of you writing here would offer to cut your own salaries? I don't know anyone in the private or public sector who has chosen to cut their salary. And before people start jumping in about how public employees are paid by taxes and private aren't....How about all of those people on Wall Street who still got their contractual bonuses paid for by the government bailouts? Don't give me the line item excuse - oh the bailout paid for this, not that. Fox News, et al, talk about not vilifying Wall Street but teachers are all greedy, evil, lazy, fat cats. When millionaires do it, its only right to uphold a contract, but when the middle class do it, its greedy and selfish. Sigh!
Even when people make concessions its never enough for some people. Maybe if people were given even a little credit for doing the right thing, people would be more inclined to keep that trend going. Just my humble opinion.
In the private sector, if a company isn't doing well it either eliminates positions, does not give raises, or if the economic climate is agreeable it raises prices. Administrative & teachers salaries with raises and step increases are rising as many of their employers (the taxpayers) are suffering layoffs, reductions in hours, reductions in benefits. The employers can no longer easily afford their salaries. What is best? Fire teachers? Ask for concessions in order to preserve jobs? Continue to suckle off a teat which is running dry? Or attempt to obfuscate things by citing a group which has no direct impact upon the high cost of school taxes which is forcing many to leave LI?
Kindly stick on the subject of the thread -- teachers unions giving back.
That's not entirely accurate. Isn't it the teachers pay 3% of their salary for the first ten years only? It is the new crop of teachers who are required to pay for a longer time frame. However, paying 3% of a lower wage base; for the first 5 years a NYC school teacher makes roughly 50K, then it steps up, but again you are paying on a much lower wage base than when you exit the school system. A teacher with 30 years in, a Masters + 30 credits is currently maxed at $100,049. A pension of 60% gives you a 60K annual sum for a cheap price of roughly 15,000 over the first ten years of working - Sweet!!!! Tell us, where in the world is that kind of ponzi scheme offered? Accrued interest - meh! Those are some usurious rates you're earning there - Madoff couldn't even match those numbers. Not even Social Security offers those kind of returns!!
Forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't part of the tax problem that the taxpayers are also being hit up for more to make up for shortfalls from poor returns on investments for the NYS teachers retirement plan?
With costs rising everyday, it is increasingly more difficult for many people to put aside money to save for retirement and continue to pay ever increasing school and property taxes. As young families leave and the student population dwindles, there won't be as much of a demand for teachers. Is that economically sound for LI?
That's not entirely accurate. Isn't it the teachers pay 3% of their salary for the first ten years only? It is the new crop of teachers who are required to pay for a longer time frame. However, paying 3% of a lower wage base; for the first 5 years a NYC school teacher makes roughly 50K, then it steps up, but again you are paying on a much lower wage base than when you exit the school system. A teacher with 30 years in, a Masters + 30 credits is currently maxed at $100,049. A pension of 60% gives you a 60K annual sum for a cheap price of roughly 15,000 over the first ten years of working - Sweet!!!! Tell us, where in the world is that kind of ponzi scheme offered? Accrued interest - meh! Those are some usurious rates you're earning there - Madoff couldn't even match those numbers. Not even Social Security offers those kind of returns!!
The NYS pension scheme is a ponzi-scheme that dwarfs Madoff's ponzi.
Great post. A tier-4 employee retiring today can retire at 55 (30-and-out), have paid only $8000 into their pension, avg $70,000 in their final years of employment, and collect a pension worth $1,000,000+ over a 25 year period...an average 130 to 1 ratio of pension value to employee contribution. Stunning!
Not only that, NY Taxpayers' pay $10 in NYS pensions for every $1 that public employees pays into their own pensions. Over the last decade, taxpayers’ annual pension contributions increased from $245 million in 2000 to $1.7 billion in 2010.
NYS is one of only 3 states that allows Overtime to be counted into pension calculations. WHY?
NY is one of only 10 states that does not levy a state or local tax on Pensions. WHY?
FYIGM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave
Forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't part of the tax problem that the taxpayers are also being hit up for more to make up for shortfalls from poor returns on investments for the NYS teachers retirement plan?
With costs rising everyday, it is increasingly more difficult for many people to put aside money to save for retirement and continue to pay ever increasing school and property taxes. As young families leave and the student population dwindles, there won't be as much of a demand for teachers. Is that economically sound for LI?
yep, because politicians, backed by union $, sway GASB to allow NY Pension funds to assume an 8% return (which it's not even earning close to that). So yes, taxpayers are making up the difference in shortfall for this ridiculously optimistic investment return assumption. Mark-to-fantasy... Kinda like how Wall street pushed for lax underwriting standards on mortgages which led to the sub-prime explosion... oh that damn wall street caused all of this
Warren Buffet's "Berkshire Hathaway", viewed as the greatest investor in the world, has an investment return assumption of only 6% annually for the next decade. Obviously NY pension fund managers know something Buffett doesn't..
Because theres 50 teachers to every admin job, but we're probably all for cutting their pay too!
People are turning to Unions in the public sector because when they watch their friends not take a raise for 3 years, eek a living, and then see their two teacher friends go and buy a 500K+ home without batting an eye and find they got more in raises in 3 years then the normal person gets in 10, they yea people get pissed.
You keep deflecting to Wall Street. I suggest if you want to bang out and rail against the evil corporations the DU would be a better stomping ground. Over here many of us have actively been proponents of cutting back on teachers salary and compensation packages for over a decade now.
Ohh yeah, if someone who is teaching bought a home in the boom then I'd fire them immediately because they lack basic understandings. Then again, it would explain why they think 7-8% raises and around twice the benefit package as the rest of the schlubs is A-OK.
You are completely out of touch. In my home district there is one administrator for every 15 (FIFTEEN) teachers! And average administrator compensation is double that of the teachers' averages. It is so bad our PTA has mobilized against this waste! According to another poster Garden City PTA has done the same.
There has certainly been 'pension envy' among some non-unionized employees in the private sector for some time now.
The simmering anti-public sector worker rhetoric always heats up during economic downturns...it is not deflecting to point out the odd irony that our downturn was precipitated by private sector banks and private sector fund managers and misjudgements therein in many areas including the private-sector housing market.
You are completely out of touch. In my home district there is one administrator for every 15 (FIFTEEN) teachers! And average administrator compensation is double that of the teachers' averages. It is so bad our PTA has mobilized against this waste! According to another poster Garden City PTA has done the same.
There has certainly been 'pension envy' among some non-unionized employees in the private sector for some time now.
The simmering anti-public sector worker rhetoric always heats up during economic downturns...it is not deflecting to point out the odd irony that our downturn was precipitated by private sector banks and private sector fund managers and misjudgements therein in many areas including the private-sector housing market.
Really? Who signed, and agreed to the terms on all those loan docs?
Forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't part of the tax problem that the taxpayers are also being hit up for more to make up for shortfalls from poor returns on investments for the NYS teachers retirement plan?
With costs rising everyday, it is increasingly more difficult for many people to put aside money to save for retirement and continue to pay ever increasing school and property taxes. As young families leave and the student population dwindles, there won't be as much of a demand for teachers. Is that economically sound for LI?
Sure that's part of the problem, the other part of the problem is continuing to hand out raises galore and offering up cadillac health and retirement plans to boot. I don't blame teachers for grabbing free money, who wouldn't - BUT, it's not free. There is a HUGE COST associated with these plans and it's all coming home to roost now. Not only do we have a return shortfall, but we the taxpayers are being asked to shoulder all the burden of making up for those "pie in the sky" numbers. I've said it time and time again, but it falls on deaf ears - why does NYS offer an annuity plan on top of the general retirement plan that offers a fixed rate of 7% guaranteed by the NYS Legislature when we all know that the best you can do in the market is about 5% and for that you have to take substantial risk - while the participants in the NYS retirement plan incur none?
As for economic soundness, nothing the government does is economically sound. Does borrowing money or subsidizing loans on behalf of frivolous expenditures look like a prudent economic decision? Perhaps for the private interest, but certainly not in the public interest. Examples of that are those stupid Build America Bonds, subsidizing the building of new parks and stadiums that are not economically self sufficient, etc.
Keep electing those bumble forks into office - every single one of the incumbents must be voted out - they are all in it together.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Tell us, where in the world is that kind of ponzi scheme offered? Accrued interest - meh! Those are some usurious rates you're earning there - Madoff couldn't even match those numbers. Not even Social Security offers those kind of returns!!
