Sorry, teachers, I just did the math and... (New York, Albany: teaching jobs, contractors)

[FrmlyBklyn]

Originally Posted by dman72

No doubt, but what I'm saying..in relation to school budgets..that taxes are going to be high here no matter what unless the economy crashes. Can we cut property taxes by 20% and still have the same services? I think we could, but with current Taylor laws it would be difficult. That's about as much as anyone could expect at this point in time.

However, when you hear people who scream "teachers should be getting paid half what they get paid!!"...I think in those cases, those people will be screaming like loonies whether their taxes are $7000 or $10,000. Guess what loonies, this is LI..your taxes are never going to be $5K.

Agreed. The days of $5K taxes are over, you want those taxes, turn back the hands of time to early 90's, otherwise, I'll be satisfied with taxes of $7-$8K, we are far past those numbers now. Sorry, this is the result of getting less from DC and less from the State. We voted those dumbos in, and now we are paying the price.

[dman72]

Originally Posted by FrmlyBklyn

Agreed. The days of $5K taxes are over, you want those taxes, turn back the hands of time to early 90's, otherwise, I'll be satisfied with taxes of $7-$8K, we are far past those numbers now. Sorry, this is the result of getting less from DC and less from the State. We voted those dumbos in, and now we are paying the price.

The 2 big problems are school boards and the Taylor law. It seems that arbitrators continue to give salary increases no matter how bad the economy gets, and school boards seem be blind to the average person's plight here on LI.

[formyblog]

Originally Posted by dman72

No doubt, but what I'm saying..in relation to school budgets..that taxes are going to be high here no matter what unless the economy crashes. Can we cut property taxes by 20% and still have the same services? I think we could, but with current Taylor laws it would be difficult. That's about as much as anyone could expect at this point in time.

However, when you hear people who scream "teachers should be getting paid half what they get paid!!"...I think in those cases, those people will be screaming like loonies whether their taxes are $7000 or $10,000. Guess what loonies, this is LI..your taxes are never going to be $5K.

The pay may be a little over the top but cut in half is too much. some teachers with 100k+ i think is too much for elementary grades. But the tax problem has nothing to do with current salaries it has everything to do with existing policies such as retire after 25 years or so in service. So anyone with age 45-50 can retire with 2/3rd salary as pension and then we have to pay the new teacher plus pension so from x we go to 1.66x and it repeats every 20 years instead of 35-40 years, same with poilce. That's where the expenditure for the school budget is skyrocketing and there is end unless some laws are modified so that states and districts can renegotiate existing contracts and trim them. Otherwise all future increase in taxes will go that black home along with poor service for kids.

http://litaxes.blogspot.com

[dman72]

Originally Posted by formyblog

The pay may be a little over the top but cut in half is too much. some teachers with 100k+ i think is too much for elementary grades. But the tax problem has nothing to do with current salaries it has everything to do with existing policies such as retire after 25 years or so in service. So anyone with age 45-50 can retire with 2/3rd salary as pension and then we have to pay the new teacher plus pension so from x we go to 1.66x and it repeats every 20 years instead of 35-40 years, same with poilce. That's where the expenditure for the school budget is skyrocketing and there is end unless some laws are modified so that states and districts can renegotiate existing contracts and trim them. Otherwise all future increase in taxes will go that black home along with poor service for kids.

Long Island Property Taxes, New York's skyrocketing debt

Personally, I think cops and firefighters should have 20 year outs. Their compensation levels are absurd, be we're not talking about guys who sit behind desks all day..in most instances anyway. You don't really want 60 year old cops running around, do you?

The current tier system for teachers is not a 25 year out, so that already has been dealt with. My wife has a 30 year out.

[NYEconomist]

Originally Posted by dman72

Personally, I think cops and firefighters should have 20 year outs. Their compensation levels are absurd, be we're not talking about guys who sit behind desks all day..in most instances anyway. You don't really want 60 year old cops running around, do you?

The current tier system for teachers is not a 25 year out, so that already has been dealt with. My wife has a 30 year out.

I'm with you. Policing and firefighting is a young person's job. Most NYPD take on a second career after they retire in their 40s. Or you can roll like the LIRR and go on disability from the age of 45 and play golf

[pdcnret]

Originally Posted by dman72

If the first $10 in taxes goes 76% towards salaries and benefits for admin and teachers, where exactly would the next $.50 budget increase be expected to go? Of course the same or similar percentages of the budget increase go towards the same things the previous budget went to. I just don't see what is so shocking about that.

Of course taxes are too high, but then you have the idiots posting replies to that budget saying " I think teachers are worth half what they get paid!!!"

If you think you'd have the same education system on LI you have now paying a teacher $45K after 12 years, you are severly misguided. McDonalds managers make more than that.

What a surprise! Teachers are worth what we pay them, but cops' salaries are "absurd." No agenda at work here, folks (except maybe that the Mrs. is a teacher.)

[ninintothevoid]

Its not the pay, its the pensions that are the problem. Solving this problem is going to have to come from the NYS legislature with the institution of another tier or modification of current tiers. Tier 5 was a start, though I believe teachers are exempt from it, but the reality is that much more of the benefit costs and retirement costs need to fall on the workers. That either means changing from a defined benefit plan to a defined contribution plan or increasing contributions and extending the retirement age(say, 65 for teachers). Benefits, namely healthcare, is a problem both in private and public companies. This is more an issue of fixing our screwed up system nationwide, through either triage or shifting the burden on to the individual.

[ABACAB]

Originally Posted by pdcnret

What a surprise! Teachers are worth what we pay them, but cops' salaries are "absurd." No agenda at work here, folks (except maybe that the Mrs. is a teacher.)

Actually, you have reached a WRONG conclusion (I sure hope you weren't a detective). I've read plenty of dman's posts where he says teachers' compensation has room for cutting. I'd say he's pretty unbiased, despite the fact that teacher pay directly affects his wallet. Yet you seem to have no issue with patrol cops making $200k in their last 3 years (what a coincidence, those years are what the pension is based on )

[FrmlyBklyn]

Originally Posted by ninintothevoid

Its not the pay, its the pensions that are the problem. Solving this problem is going to have to come from the NYS legislature with the institution of another tier or modification of current tiers. Tier 5 was a start, though I believe teachers are exempt from it, but the reality is that much more of the benefit costs and retirement costs need to fall on the workers. That either means changing from a defined benefit plan to a defined contribution plan or increasing contributions and extending the retirement age(say, 65 for teachers). Benefits, namely healthcare, is a problem both in private and public companies. This is more an issue of fixing our screwed up system nationwide, through either triage or shifting the burden on to the individual.

I've said it before, all Tiers need to be modified. How you do that? Take a page from corporate America - freeze all pension benefits as of a certain date. All benefits earned to date you keep, all future benefits going forward accrue at either a lower percentage of salary. The teachers already have access to a Tax Deferred Annuity program/403b - there is no need to add another defined contribution plan.

Here's a viable example - assuming 30 year work schedule:

15 Year Teacher makes $90K annually - Freeze pension today.
Tomorrow, the same 15 Year Teacher continues to make 90K annually, however annual pension benefit accrued is at a rate of 1.25% of annual salary.
At the end of 30 years you add the frozen vested pension benefits of the first 15 years with the accrued annual pension benefit of 1.25% of annual salary times number of years worked. Combined amount is the annual pension benefit.

I must say - the moment you bring this to the Gestapo's attention - they will cry "but your hurting the children" - in reality the only children you will be hurting are those teaching your
kids every day you bring them to school - they sit at the front desk. Time to grow up boys and girls - this ain't no Mickey Mouse game.

[dman72]

Originally Posted by pdcnret

What a surprise! Teachers are worth what we pay them, but cops' salaries are "absurd." No agenda at work here, folks (except maybe that the Mrs. is a teacher.)

Keep on stalking.

Apparently the cop Masters degree program doesn't teach you about things like "degree" and nuance. Like, for instance, where one party can be overcompensated to one degree, and another can be overcompensated to a higher degree. This wasn't in any of this genius text books.