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Old 05-22-2011, 07:10 AM
 
924 posts, read 1,102,833 times
Reputation: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by poletop1 View Post
It is amazing how lowly Americans place the responsibility of nurturing the intellect of young Americans. Yes, pay them minimum wage! After all, we all had that one meanie teacher in high school, it is revenge time!
Is it me or does this post make no sense at all?

THat's it, it's revenge. It's not the fact that LIers are being strangled by the property taxes based on the political dealings of a few special interest public unions. Keep telling yourself it's revenge.
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Old 05-22-2011, 07:17 AM
 
15 posts, read 14,749 times
Reputation: 43
BigMike- You're right! Complaining all the time is making me see RED. I'm slowly planning my escape but I have to wait for my youngest to graduate.

How long ago did you move? How's the area, weather, people,etc? Feel free to PM me. Thanks.
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Old 05-22-2011, 07:17 AM
 
1,799 posts, read 2,021,715 times
Reputation: 758
Quote:
Originally Posted by poletop1 View Post
It is amazing how lowly Americans place the responsibility of nurturing the intellect of young Americans. Yes, pay them minimum wage! After all, we all had that one meanie teacher in high school, it is revenge time!
Laughable.
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Old 05-22-2011, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Suffolk
504 posts, read 501,136 times
Reputation: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreaII View Post
This is a Long Island forum, it's not for upstate NY. We live on LI, not in upstate NY. What we are concerned with here on Long Island is teachers' pay and benefits and how it affects our RE taxes - not the pay for upstate NY teachers where the cost of living is much lower than LI. Do YOU understand?

My husband and I are tired of having to save roughly $13,000 every year to pay our RE taxes, and $8400 of that goes into the teachers' salaries and pensions. We are tired of supporting them. Soon we won't be supporting them because we're planning on moving away to some place that won't be robbing us every year. That $8400/year would go a long way for us personally for our own retirement instead of our seeing it go to the teachers. After 10 years if we didn't have to pay out that $8400/year, we would have an easy $84K saved for ourselves for our own retirement.

On Long Island top pay for teachers easily exceeds $100K. In fact, $100K for a long-time veteran teacher on LI is laughable in 2011. Way too low. Just Google LI teachers' salaries per school district and you'll see their salaries for yourself.

I have personal friends who teach music on LI. Charlotte Johnson teaches chorus at Comsewogue HS - she teaches 4 classes a day, 180 days/year. That's 3/4 of a year's work. Right now she's making roughly $130K (plus benefits for her family) after teaching for 16 years. Her husband Paul, has been teaching in the same district at the elementary level for the past 7 years - Charlotte got him his job; he was a late bloomer at the age of 50 (he used to be a landscaper until he went to school and majored in elementary school education) - and he makes just under $100K, plus health benefits as well - their insurance benefits overlap. Obviously they pull in about $230K this year between them, and of course next year they will get their raises and will be making roughly $246K next school year. Charlotte complained to me last year they didn't have enough money to install a back door on their house. Yeah, right. God only knows what their pensions will be when they retire - and when those pensions are multiplied by the number of years they live, they're easily in the multiple millions. This of course doesn't include social security they will receive besides.

I don't know about you, but my husband and I will be lucky if we end up with a few hundred thousand saved up in our 401K for our retirement, and that has to last us the rest of our lives. Of course we will get social security too, just like the Johnsons, but we won't have their millions to retire with.

Another friend, Linda Contino, chorus teacher at Three Village's Ward Melville HS is making roughly $121k/year plus benefits - she's been teaching for around 18 years and teaches a full day, 8 classes/day. Her pension will be worth millions when she retires.

Amy Rosenthal, elementary school music teacher at Sachem SD at Hawkins Elementary School, teacher of 7 years, around 32 years old, teaches a full load per day now in excess of $100K plus benefits. Another up and coming wealthy teacher who has complained to me she doesn't make enough money.

These salaries of these people can all be looked up on line - the names are real. They are all still teaching on LI.

What's so great about these teachers? Why do they deserve their bloated salaries and pensions - guaranteed, no less? Why do the rest of us have to fork over our hard-earned money to support them and turn them into millionaires? This situation on LI sucks. I don't blame young people who aren't overpaid teachers and aren't other overpaid public employees for wanting to leave LI and live somewhere else where they don't have to support the public sector.

My husband in comparison to the above music teachers has been in the private sector in the IT industry for 31 years. He's been in middle management for the last 20 years. He works 50 weeks/year, makes roughly $110K/year, we pay $495/month for group insurance, and he has no pension. He does have a 401K and it certainly doesn't contain any where near the requisite $1.6 million is would take to match a teacher's guaranteed pension. My husband is typical of the pay scale for LI's private sector. At this point in time his compensation is quite a bit lower than a teacher's, plus there's no job security either. How is that in line with teachers' compensation here on LI? It's not. At all.

Teachers are paid way more than the private sector. Years ago it used to be the other way around - teachers were way underpaid. Then it evened out. Now teachers are the true wealthy with their guaranteed jobs, guaranteed 7% raises increasing exponentially, guaranteed pensions worth about $2 million at this point in time.

This is the situation on LI, not in upstate NY. Please don't confuse the two.

Andrea, I'm not going to argue your points about bloated salaries in some districts and high school taxes, BUT...
You keep saying this is only a LI problem, and in reality, it isn't!

The pension system is statewide, there is no differentiation for LI schools. Yes, there are lower salaries in many districts upstate, but not all of them! Yet the pension system is the same for all.

My husband just retired from a very good district in Nassau, he coached three sports for most of his career. He did very well for himself and his family - but at our expense I might add - he was always over there instead of with us, but that's another story. Our choice. Same as your family taking the jobs they did along with the result of having to save your own pension. My husband didn't start out making $100K and it took him the bulk of his career to even get to $100K. He has a nice pension, but it's not $100K either.

I agree that things have to change with the system - the way the state collects funds for education and doles them out inequitably, the way the teachers should be contributing more to their pensions their whole career, the way school boards are not able to negotiate to the taxpayer's benefit by lowering increases, the inability to get rid of step increases or lessen the number of step increases over a career, the need to increase contributions to health benefits, the way a huge business (LIPA, a mall etc) only pays their taxes to the local district instead of sharing them with the region they serve... I could go on.

Some of these things are only going to change if Albany changes them, a few are under local control - yet the pressure to be the same as neighboring districts impedes that control.

I know life is too expensive here. My own three grown children can't afford to get their own places, their jobs don't pay enough, they don't have benefits. So no matter how well the parents have done, the kids still are affected by the high rate of living expenses here on LI. We can't and shouldn't be supporting them forever.

I should say your comment about the teachers in Comsewogue kind of blew my mind. Only 16 years in the district and this woman is already making well over $100K? THAT is a contract that is WAY over the norm! Sure, she will end up with a nice pension. But now her husband, who is already over 50 and just started teaching... he won't end up with a good pension because, unless he plans on working until he's 80, he can't get full pension benefits!

And Sachem, 7 years and $100K? Come on, that's ridiculous, impossible. I'll have to look that one up.
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Old 05-22-2011, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Huntington
877 posts, read 1,785,157 times
Reputation: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7CatMom View Post


I should say your comment about the teachers in Comsewogue kind of blew my mind. Only 16 years in the district and this woman is already making well over $100K? THAT is a contract that is WAY over the norm! Sure, she will end up with a nice pension. But now her husband, who is already over 50 and just started teaching... he won't end up with a good pension because, unless he plans on working until he's 80, he can't get full pension benefits!

And Sachem, 7 years and $100K? Come on, that's ridiculous, impossible. I'll have to look that one up.
Enjoy the lookups - by all means, let us know exactly what you found.

We are currently researching other areas of the country to move to. For instance, just this morning I took a look at fairly expensive real estate in San Luis Obispo, CA, and found a number of houses up for sale in the $600K range. The RE taxes were around $4K for the year 2010, which is merely a fraction of what we pay here.

Also came across a beautiful huge house set in the hills there with an asking price of $3,500,000. Taxes were stated to be at $9800+. Cheap RE taxes compared to LI.

As I stated in my long-winded post, we definitely won't be staying here for our retirement and being financially bled to death.
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Old 05-22-2011, 01:49 PM
 
924 posts, read 1,102,833 times
Reputation: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreaII View Post
As I stated in my long-winded post, we definitely won't be staying here for our retirement and being financially bled to death.
And that's the problem we're running into on Long Island. The only people that want to live here are the people who's kids are in school right now.

If you have 3 kids in my district your children are costing about 27k per year. That's a great deal when you think that they are paying 10-15k per year for 75k worth of education. This person usually votes yes for every budget out of one end of their mouth and looks for a house the minute their kids are 18 out of the other end.

If you're going to leave then leave. Don't wait until you've drained the community and then decide the taxes are too high.
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Old 05-23-2011, 06:08 AM
 
Location: Long Island
8,389 posts, read 2,736,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMike50 View Post
First of all top pay for teachers in NY aren't over 100k. I know teachers in New Paltz making 40k a year. Try Buffalo or South Hill or any where upstate and see what they are making.

The point is numbers can be manipulated. Like you could say NY per capita is 50k but isn't that including all of NY state not just L.I. Trust me there are a lot of lower income neighborhoods in the state of NY.

Ok being L.I. specific the teachers at top pay are at 100k again people are going to say the Per Capita Personal Income for people on the the island is 50k. But again you also have to take into account areas not so desirable and all the people on welfare and what not. It really brings down the average.

Lets use Garden City as an example...They list as the average per capita income as 53 k a year...so what you are saying is that a teacher making 100k doubles the per capita income of Garden City should have absolutely no problems living there on just that one salary alone? I call B.S.

I know some teachers on L.I. Most live modestly in 3 or 4 bedroom homes like most of the people I know on the Island even with their "huge" civil servant salaries.

I was speaking to LI, not up state, the median per capita income on LI is around $50K. Yes there are poor areas, as there are also wealthy areas but the number still stands as a fact.

Teachers at the top end are well over $100K. Look at Garden City, over 235 teachers above $100K, almost 70%, some administrators in the mix, but overall they are well above the threshold. I am sure there are some teachers living in Garden City but overall most teachers do not live where they work, same as people that commute to Manhattan. You live where you can afford, that is not a taxpayers responsibility, unless we have a shortage and that is far from the case with teachers and police.

Obviously, based on the median salary, there are people that survive on far less than $100K but we don't hear the entitlement argument, how do they survive? How do teachers in NY City survive on a lower salary?
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Wallens Ridge
3,131 posts, read 2,422,996 times
Reputation: 17201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
I was speaking to LI, not up state, the median per capita income on LI is around $50K. Yes there are poor areas, as there are also wealthy areas but the number still stands as a fact.

Teachers at the top end are well over $100K. Look at Garden City, over 235 teachers above $100K, almost 70%, some administrators in the mix, but overall they are well above the threshold. I am sure there are some teachers living in Garden City but overall most teachers do not live where they work, ( where do they live?) same as people that commute to Manhattan. You live where you can afford, that is not a taxpayers responsibility, unless we have a shortage and that is far from the case with teachers and police.

Obviously, based on the median salary, there are people that survive on far less than $100K but we don't hear the entitlement argument, how do they survive? How do teachers in NY City survive on a lower salary?

You said it best they "survive" not live. Making 50K on the island you could survive but you will be in the C.C.U on life support

It doesn't matter if you teach in Garden City, Freeport, Hempstead or Baldwin a tenured teacher is going to make the same money.

You live where you could AFFORD: like I said before..


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMike50 View Post

According what you guys are saying by the numbers Household income/ per capita income a L.I. teacher on their salary alone should have no problem whatsoever living in any North Shore town such as Oyster Bay Cove(103K) North Hills(100K) Sands Point(95K) Centre Island (96k) Plandome (95K) but for some reason the teachers I know live in Valley Stream, Lynbrook, Oceanside, Baldwin, Wantagh, Framingdale far from the millionaire lifestyle this board portrays.

You guy are too hung up on numbers....as you could see number don't tell the full story

They don't live palatial Estates but 3 bed 1.5 baths 70 year old homes like most folks I know on L.I. They live among nurses,secretaries, insurance salesmen,mailmen,firemen, etc,etc

Just another example.....By me teachers make less than half 53K a year, but live much better. They live in 4/5 bedroom 3/4bath 2 to 3x's the square footage and 5-10x's the property.

The whole system on L.I. is broken

Last edited by BigMike50; 05-23-2011 at 09:22 AM..
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Old 05-23-2011, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Huntington
877 posts, read 1,785,157 times
Reputation: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYEconomist View Post
The only people that want to live here are the people who's kids are in school right now.

If you're going to leave then leave. Don't wait until you've drained the community and then decide the taxes are too high.
Our kids have been out of the public schools for 7 years now. We'll be staying here until my husband loses his job, whenever that occurs. At that point in time our house will go up for sale, and we'll move to a much more reasonable cost of living area. There will be no choice - at his age it will be slim to nil pickings on the job front (once you hit 50+ you're over career-wise in NY), and our income will be abruptly cut off. Being drained financially by exorbitant RE taxes is not an option.

There are many, many places in the US that are much more beautiful than LI, and we are fully confident that we will be as happy if not happier living in another area while not becoming bankrupt.
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Old 05-23-2011, 05:57 PM
 
924 posts, read 1,102,833 times
Reputation: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreaII View Post
Our kids have been out of the public schools for 7 years now. We'll be staying here until my husband loses his job, whenever that occurs. At that point in time our house will go up for sale, and we'll move to a much more reasonable cost of living area. There will be no choice - at his age it will be slim to nil pickings on the job front (once you hit 50+ you're over career-wise in NY), and our income will be abruptly cut off. Being drained financially by exorbitant RE taxes is not an option.

There are many, many places in the US that are much more beautiful than LI, and we are fully confident that we will be as happy if not happier living in another area while not becoming bankrupt.
Sorry, force of habit! I know way too many people on Long Island that are cause for the high cost of living, but want to move off the minute they're done sucking off the public teet.

I know a couple my wife is cozy with that constantly complains about the cost of living on Long Island. They own three homes, a boat, two classic cars, a million dollar portfolio, and will be moving as soon as they retire. He's a cop and she's a teacher; combined pension of 200k and full benefits when they retire in their 50s. Too many people struggle on this island to make ends meet for this type of life for our teachers and cops.
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