Was it harder then...or now on LI? (Babylon, West Babylon: rent to own, home)

[dman72]

Originally Posted by totallyfrazzled

. It does dismay me when I hear him say he "needs" things like an LCD flatscreen HDTV when the more accurate word would be "wants".

Good post overall, but to this highlighted point: compare what the LCD flat panel costs in inflationary terms to the 24 inch wood grain cabinet TV my dad bought in 1979, and also relative to his salary that supported our one income blue collar family.

Guess what...it cost him a lot more, relatively. I don't remember hearing my grandparents telling him what a spoiled "want it all now" brat he was. We actually spend only slightly more per capita on electronics now than we did say in 1970, surprisingly, and that is offset by how much LESS we spend on clothes and entertainment, again, all inflation adjusted. That is the one benefit of the mostly negative impact of Wal-mart...stuff is cheaply made and is cheap to buy. Of course, all the jobs they provide are garbage and they destroy competition, but that's a different thread. The average family has a TV, computer, and maybe an i-pod, but it's all made in China and it's relatively cheap. My dad probably paid 250-300 bucks for that TV, and he was making 40K-50K or something. A couple making 150K buys a $1,000 TV..do the math.

The truth is, on average...baby boomers are incredibly selfish..again, not all, but many. They just can't fathom that they had it easier than anyone else, when in fact, most grew up and came of age during the greatest prosperity our country has ever seen, and reaped the rewards of it. Pensions? Retirements? Summer houses upstate? Medical benefits after retirement? 40 hour work weeks? What is that stuff all about.

[totallyfrazzled]

Originally Posted by dman72

most grew up and came of age during the greatest prosperity our country has ever seen, and reaped the rewards of it.

Absolutely. No argument there. And not only prosperity but an entire change of culture from what any generation (except possibly my grandparents who came of age during the 1920s which was another cultural watershed though not nearly as dramatic as the 1960s) ever experienced.

However I don't entirely buy the argument that most baby boomers are reaping the rewards of pensions, retirements, medical benefits in later life, etc. That was true for those who eventually found work with companies that provided those things but a very large segment of our generation - ESPECIALLY WOMEN - did not do so. The vast majority of women who graduated from highschool in the mid to late 1960s did not go on to college but instead found work as secretaries, office assistants, and so forth before leaving the workplace for marriage and/or childrearing. Some eventually returned to the workplace but many did not. Those boomers were and still are dependent on whatever benefits their husbands happen to be entitled to, assuming (a) that there were any, and (b) that due to either divorce or death they may still remain entitled to get.

Remember too that individual retirement accounts didn't even exist until the mid-1970s and there wasn't exactly a huge rush on the part of every worker to sink every possible cent into them.

There are many MANY baby boomers whose only income during retirement is Social Security and whose only medical coverage is Medicare. No pension, no 401k, no personal IRA; or if there is one, it's something like $30K, $40K, or $50K which as we all know doesn't last very long nowadays no matter where you happen to live.

Not all of us are living on easy street by a long shot, even though we're not eating catfood for dinner yet.

[dman72]

Originally Posted by totallyfrazzled

Absolutely. No argument there. And not only prosperity but an entire change of culture from what any generation (except possibly my grandparents who came of age during the 1920s which was another cultural watershed though not nearly as dramatic as the 1960s) ever experienced.

However I don't entirely buy the argument that most baby boomers are reaping the rewards of pensions, retirements, medical benefits in later life, etc. That was true for those who eventually found work with companies that provided those things but a very large segment of our generation - ESPECIALLY WOMEN - did not do so. The vast majority of women who graduated from highschool in the mid to late 1960s did not go on to college but instead found work as secretaries, office assistants, and so forth before leaving the workplace for marriage and/or childrearing. Some eventually returned to the workplace but many did not. Those boomers were and still are dependent on whatever benefits their husbands happen to be entitled to, assuming (a) that there were any, and (b) that due to either divorce or death they may still remain entitled to get.

Remember too that individual retirement accounts didn't even exist until the mid-1970s and there wasn't exactly a huge rush on the part of every worker to sink every possible cent into them.

There are many MANY baby boomers whose only income during retirement is Social Security and whose only medical coverage is Medicare. No pension, no 401k, no personal IRA; or if there is one, it's something like $30K, $40K, or $50K which as we all know doesn't last very long nowadays no matter where you happen to live.

Not all of us are living on easy street by a long shot, even though we're not eating catfood for dinner yet.

Of course there are baby boomers ( I know a few, including in-laws) in that situation, but we are talking sweeping generalizations here.

The sweeping generalization made by the average baby boomer is that they had it harder than kids today. The statistics say, on average, they are full of it. If they worked for a big company or a municipality, in most cases, that is indeed the case that they are full of it.

[JudiPatooti]

I can only speak for me personally, but I didn't mean to convey that I had it harder than kids today. I don't think I said that, either. Having only my true NEEDS met when I was a young adult raising a family rather than considering all my WANTS as needs doesn't mean I was unhappy. I was happy then and my memories of that time now are very happy ones. I said, in fact, just how happy I was with what I had. Perhaps young people today can't fathom being happy living the way I did and assume I must have been feeling sorry for myself, but as I said in both of my posts, on the contrary, I was very happy and content with my life just as it was. That's more or less the point I'm trying to get across. You can be happy with less and you can't expect to have it all when you're first starting out.

Furthermore, I DO think it's harder today than it was then! It's harder for boomers, too. And, it's definitely harder on LI, which is why so many boomers have left or are preparing to leave. For the umteenth time here, I was only saying that if you're struggling and want to stay on LI, take a good look at where and on what you're spending your paycheck. Think about what you really could do without. That's what people starting out do to better themselves in the future. And, you don't have to do it wailing and kicking all the way. Do it with a good attitude! If that is impossible for you and you still can't live the lifestyle you want to live here on LI, then by all means move to wherever you want to.

And, to Dman72 I say that if your dad was making 40K-50K in 1970 he was making a darn good salary and you must have come from a rich family. Because my teacher husband graduated from Stony Brook that year and got his first teaching job in public school making $6,800 per year. We couldn't afford a $350-$400 tv. We watched my parents cast-off 10 year old one instead.

[dman72]

Originally Posted by JudiPatooti

And, to Dman72 I say that if your dad was making 40K-50K in 1970 he was making a darn good salary and you must have come from a rich family. Because my teacher husband graduated from Stony Brook that year and got his first teaching job in public school making $6,800 per year. We couldn't afford a $350-$400 tv. We watched my parents cast-off 10 year old one instead.

I stated in the post that the TV was purchased in 1980. The salary I spoke about was in 1980.

We were not a rich family. We had that TV for 15 years afterwards and kept every car for at least 8 years.

The problem with your post, again, is the assumption that young people on LI spend money on things they don't need, and that's why they struggle. For the ..fourth..time (?), people raising families now spend more of their money on housing, health care, and education, than anything, and proportionately a LOT more of it on those things, then people did when you were starting your family. Period. You need to cast aside your flawed assumption about what people spend their money on, because..it's simply wrong. People are "getting theirs" later in life, and with more struggle, than you and your peers did 30-40 years ago here on LI. Fact. A fact you are having a hard time dealing with, but a fact nonetheless.

Exactly how was it a struggle for the thousands of baby boomers who sold their overpriced hi ranches for 500K and moved South, buying 300K houses and taking the profit?

[totallyfrazzled]

Originally Posted by dman72

If they worked for a big company or a municipality, in most cases, that is indeed the case that they are full of it.

Agreed. And it's also a fact that tons of boomer's parents as well as boomers themselves worked for Grumman which was pretty much as close to womb-to-tomb financial security as you could get.

Grumman was the big name of course but there was also Sperry and I forget the name of the other large aerospace company here.

When Long Island lost their big chunk of the aerospace industry it had a much bigger negative impact on future generations employment in general than many people realize. I can't really think of another industry that has stepped into the LI employment opportunity void than Grumman et al. 's demise left us with --- can you?

Maybe expanded retail but that's not the same kind of employment/payscales/advancement opps that the aerospace companies offered.

[seren77]

Originally Posted by JudiPatooti

I can only speak for me personally, but I didn't mean to convey that I had it harder than kids today. I don't think I said that, either. Having only my true NEEDS met when I was a young adult raising a family rather than considering all my WANTS as needs doesn't mean I was unhappy. I was happy then and my memories of that time now are very happy ones. I said, in fact, just how happy I was with what I had. Perhaps young people today can't fathom being happy living the way I did and assume I must have been feeling sorry for myself, but as I said in both of my posts, on the contrary, I was very happy and content with my life just as it was. That's more or less the point I'm trying to get across. You can be happy with less and you can't expect to have it all when you're first starting out.

Furthermore, I DO think it's harder today than it was then! It's harder for boomers, too. And, it's definitely harder on LI, which is why so many boomers have left or are preparing to leave. For the umteenth time here, I was only saying that if you're struggling and want to stay on LI, take a good look at where and on what you're spending your paycheck. Think about what you really could do without. That's what people starting out do to better themselves in the future. And, you don't have to do it wailing and kicking all the way. Do it with a good attitude! If that is impossible for you and you still can't live the lifestyle you want to live here on LI, then by all means move to wherever you want to.

And, to Dman72 I say that if your dad was making 40K-50K in 1970 he was making a darn good salary and you must have come from a rich family. Because my teacher husband graduated from Stony Brook that year and got his first teaching job in public school making $6,800 per year. We couldn't afford a $350-$400 tv. We watched my parents cast-off 10 year old one instead.

See the other inconvenient truth is that some of our "needs" become so darn expensive that we cannot even touch it and we end up replacing those with our "wants".

Take health care for example: In 1970, U.S. health care spending was about $75 billion, or $356 per resident, and accounted for 7.2% of GDP. Now we are spending over $2.5 trillion on health care in 2009, or $8,160 per U.S. resident, roughly 17.6% of GDP (1 in 6 dollars). (Source: The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation - Health Policy, Media Resources, Public Health Education & South Africa - Kaiser Family Foundation)

Sad story for our generation is that we are not even enjoying better health care. Hospitals are so darn expensive that they won't even let you stay one extra night than the minimum required. So where does that all the money goes to? Guess what? Baby boomers. We are essentially subsidizing you guys.

I think it is OK. Please enjoy your early bird buffets, golf courses etc. We don't even expect any appreciation. But when you have your triple bypass surgery on my tap after you choke on your 20 oz. t-bone, at least stop making statements like "you would get by only if you shave your own legs".

[totallyfrazzled]

Originally Posted by dman72

Exactly how was it a struggle for the thousands of baby boomers who sold their overpriced hi ranches for 500K and moved South, buying 300K houses and taking the profit?

Well, not all of us moved south. My SO and I didn't. We flipped our profits over into another LI house and kept up our ongoing "contributions" to the local economy and tax base.

I admit we're in the minority overall though. We know more people our age who have relocated off LI than those who are still here.

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by totallyfrazzled

Remember too that individual retirement accounts didn't even exist until the mid-1970s and there wasn't exactly a huge rush on the part of every worker to sink every possible cent into them.

They didn't exist and weren't popular among workers once they were created because, for the most part, there was no need for them as there were company-funded pensions. As for those who worked in small businesses, etc., and did not receive a company-funded pension back then PLUS did not save anything in a plain old savings account (since there "were no IRAs"), whose fault is that? Your own. Now what do we have? Big business and the government conspired to kill company-funded pensions and created 401(k)s which companies could choose or decline to contribute to as they pleased and which puts the whole burden of retirement on the worker, whose earning power and standard of living has seriously declined compared to the baby boomers and continues to do so each year.

[dman72]

Originally Posted by totallyfrazzled

Agreed. And it's also a fact that tons of boomer's parents as well as boomers themselves worked for Grumman which was pretty much as close to womb-to-tomb financial security as you could get.

Grumman was the big name of course but there was also Sperry and I forget the name of the other large aerospace company here.

When Long Island lost their big chunk of the aerospace industry it had a much bigger negative impact on future generations employment in general than many people realize. I can't really think of another industry that has stepped into the LI employment opportunity void than Grumman et al. 's demise left us with --- can you?

Maybe expanded retail but that's not the same kind of employment/payscales/advancement opps that the aerospace companies offered.

I can't tell you how many former Grumman employees I've met on LI. It was insane what a boom that company was to people living here. Guys working in the warehouse who own houses? Where does that happen anymore?

After they went down, I think Waldbaums became the largest private employer on LI. Now sure who it is now.