Anyone sick of News 12's reports about Illegal on Long Island? (Mexico: estate, jobs)

[Dedalus]

Originally Posted by GCGuy

Thank you. That's exactly what I've been saying. Yes, my granparents, etc...but that was 100 years ago when America was TRYING to be what it is today. It's a new world and there needs to be some new thought behind how the country is managed.

America is in such sorry shape at the moment that I question that anyone would have desired this outcome, save some robber baron.

I have not, I confess, read up on this law in PA that was struck down by the Federal courts. It's inconceivable to me that some kind of law could not be drafted to go after the real bad guys in the illegal alien mess - the Americans who employ them. If not for them, those illegals would not be here in the first place. Here's a thought - explicitly permit the employment of illegal aliens, but impose a whopping TAX on those who do. This makes the people who employ them into tax evaders. If that won't work, how about publishing their names in the paper?

As for giving their kids free medical care...OK, let's deny their kids free medical care. Do you think that will stop them from coming? My thought is: no. It'll simply create an economic niche for quack doctors to ply their trade among the illegal aliens. And, at the best, their children would simply die; at the worst, they would die after spreading whatever they were infected with to your children.

Let's see...where did the Bush brothers get elected governor? Texas and Florida. What are the two of the three states with the largest number of Hispanics? In the third one, where I used to live (hint: it's even shaped like a banana) the one time governor, Pete Wilson, tried to make a campaign issue out of the "unfunded mandates" imposed on the State by the Federal government by the burden of having to pay for services to illegal aliens. His political career went pfffft! with lightning speed. Never ones to neglect such a lesson, the First Frat Boy and his brother have decisively...sat on the fence. They sure have talked a good fight. Does that make them "liberals?'

[NY62]

and those 20 to a house are sending there money back "home" our grandparents didnt do that . Did anyone see when the miss universe or whatever pageant was in mexico? when miss usa came out they booed her and chanted osama bin laden,they went to comercial and the mc told them to stop it. It was a small article in the paper so all of you bleeding hearts should know how they feel about us and our country wake up america.yes there are a few that want to be americans but there are way more here just sending the money back to there countries, So they can live like kings there when they go back.I new a guy personally from guattamalla or whatever and he told me that is what they are doing himself. The american dream my a** they live 20 to a house so they can send the money away not put it back in our country.and tenemants were alot different then 20 living in a 3bd ranch. and I never said they were lucky?

[4StanleyCups]

"First Frat Boy", LOL, I like that one!

(I'd give you another rep point for that but The System says it's too soon.)

I was talking to someone the other day who used to operate an indepedent nursery here on LI (they retired and sold the place about a year or so ago; a developer bought the land and put up 6 houses). I asked him what happened to all of the grounds guys they used to employ (all Hispanic). He said most of them went to work off the books for lawn maintenance firms because it's the easiest for illegals to get into. I asked if they were all illegals. His answer was "these guys hand over a Social Security card, we put them on the books with that number, we give them checks in that name/number, it wasn't our job to verify whether the number was theirs or not. They handed us a card, we took it, no questions asked. Taxes got taken out of their pay just like anyone else's. All I know is these guys worked their a**es off and sent most of their money back home to their families in South America or Mexico."

Obviously this is a grey area. These guys were on the books (albeit probably with a falsified SS card), were getting paid the minimum wage or more, and all the proper Federal and state taxes were being deducted from their pay. But odds are most of these guys were here illegally (the guy I talked to admitted that he was pretty sure they were "but that was none of my business, it's not my job to play Immigration Cop"). Is an employer like this as bad as the one described in the News12 report? He's still employing an illegal but in a semi-legal (?) way - if there is such a thing. The employee wasn't being cheated by substandard pay, the government wasn't being cheated of their payroll taxes, BUT he was still hiring illegals.

Guess we have 2 classes of "illegal employers" as well as 3 classes of "illegal landlords"?

[NY62]

Originally Posted by 4StanleyCups

"First Frat Boy", LOL, I like that one!

(I'd give you another rep point for that but The System says it's too soon.)

I was talking to someone the other day who used to operate an indepedent nursery here on LI (they retired and sold the place about a year or so ago; a developer bought the land and put up 6 houses). I asked him what happened to all of the grounds guys they used to employ (all Hispanic). He said most of them went to work off the books for lawn maintenance firms because it's the easiest for illegals to get into. I asked if they were all illegals. His answer was "these guys hand over a Social Security card, we put them on the books with that number, we give them checks in that name/number, it wasn't our job to verify whether the number was theirs or not. They handed us a card, we took it, no questions asked. Taxes got taken out of their pay just like anyone else's. All I know is these guys worked their a**es off and sent most of their money back home to their families in South America or Mexico."

Obviously this is a grey area. These guys were on the books (albeit probably with a falsified SS card), were getting paid the minimum wage or more, and all the proper Federal and state taxes were being deducted from their pay. But odds are most of these guys were here illegally (the guy I talked to admitted that he was pretty sure they were "but that was none of my business, it's not my job to play Immigration Cop"). Is an employer like this as bad as the one described in the News12 report? He's still employing an illegal but in a semi-legal (?) way - if there is such a thing. The employee wasn't being cheated by substandard pay, the government wasn't being cheated of their payroll taxes, BUT he was still hiring illegals.

Guess we have 2 classes of "illegal employers" as well as 3 classes of "illegal landlords"?

wow hey at least they paid taxes LOL most dont. now They are asking for 10 an hour off the books at least.minimum wage dont cut it.LOL

[GypsySoul22]

No one said to deny kids medical care buy why should my husband bust his butt at his job so we can have it while illegals come here and get on the books and all the freebies they can? Believe me, they KNOW how to milk the system. One baby who's an American citizen and bam, they are able to stay in the country.

Yes, if we tell them there are NO benefits if you are illegal I believe THEY WILL stop coming, and maybe head off to some other country.

We make it too easy here, especially in New York.

[GCGuy]

Yes, it's too easy. They do work to send the money home and go back eventually. Screw that. That's why we let them in here? They should want to come here and become Americans and make this country better for a long time to come.

And while I do not hate Bush at all, his stance on immigration is quite sickening to me.

[4StanleyCups]

Just throwing this out for comment and discussion, inspired by the above:

Let's say we have "Hernando" and also "Francisco" who have both come here illegally from points south, two years ago. They both work for the same home improvement contractor who pays them both off the books and make the same amount of $ per week.

"Hernando" came here with his wife and 2 kids. They live in an (illegal, of course) apartment in a house with an absentee landlord who also rents the other parts of the house to other immigrant families. Whenever anyone in Hernando's family gets sick they go to the emergency room (and with 2 kids that happens a lot). His kids go to public school while his wife also has an off-the-books job. Hernando was able to obtain a falsified SS card which enables his family to get public assistance such as food stamps, etc (although he pays no taxes).

"Francisco" came here by himself, leaving his wife and 2 kids back home with the rest of his extended family, because there was no chance of him finding a job there. He lives in an (illegal, of course) one-room apartment which used to be the garage of the house. When he gets paid, Francisco keeps only what money he needs for rent and food, and sends the rest of it to his wife. When Francisco gets sick, he goes to the emergency room just like Hernando & family do, but he didn't get a false SS card and doesn't apply for any kind of public assistance. He doesn't pay any taxes either, obviously. He misses his family but realizes that at least he's able to provide money to them which he'd have no chance of doing if he stayed "back home".

My question is: If you had to choose, which of these two men would you consider to be the "lesser of two evils" illegal immigrant? The one whose family here is more of a drain on our system, or the one who is sending his money out of the country?

[nbres]

Obviously you are pushing Bush's Guest Worker program.

Neither choice is good for America. Doesn't everybody realize that Bush, the Republicans, the Democrats, and the upper class elite want as many immigrants as possible so they can screw all of us - the working and middle class Americans. They want to break what is left of the unions, make everyone replaceable and disposable. Essentially, they want things to be like they were in the merry days of the Gilded Age. They want 2007 to be more like 1907. They want unrestricted capitalism, who needs safety requirements for children's toys, who cares if 1% of Americans control 40% of the wealth, don't you worry, just go along and do that wage slave thing you do.



America must:

1. Secure the borders - no illegal immigration.

2. Reduce Legal Immigration to tolerable levels.

3. Then we will discuss what to do with the illegals.

[4StanleyCups]

Originally Posted by nbres

Obviously you are pushing Bush's Guest Worker program.

By NO MEANS. On the contrary, I'm in the round em up/ship em out camp.

And I didn't say that either Hernando or Francisco is good for America.

What I am is a realist and asking for opinions about today's reality, right now this minute, which is (like it or not) personified in "Hernando" and "Francisco".

[nbres]

Look the problem is not the illegal immigrants. They just want work. It is our country that is at fault because it doesn't enforce the laws in the first place. Those at the top of our society are responsible. They want this and they want to replace you and me with a more compliant labor force. We the people don't seem to matter much anymore.