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Status:
"Let this year be over..."
(set 19 days ago)
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,219 posts, read 17,085,392 times
Reputation: 15538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interlude
Here are the right-to-work states. Not seeing much of a difference in terms of employment rates. You'd think businesses would just be FLOCKING to these employer paradises!
Cost of living I'll grant you. There are a huge number of factors for that though.
Link #1 didn't work and Link #3 is an individuals page, the figure is actually @76% right now. States like WV are only 31%. What shortages do exist are because of years where agency's were allowed to defer the contributions. The programis still ranked as one of the best managed pension systems.
It's just unemployment data from google, search "unemployment data" and it's the first result. Point was that there's no difference in unemployment rates from union to right-to-work-for-less states.
Agreed but on the same note I wouldn't be so fast to assume that the union ran a fair/clean campaign either.
Being a former Union organizer, it would be stupid to play games and lie or any other false tactic.
As for fair, it's always funny to see, (you need more than half the work force of the work place to sign in favor to gain a vote for union representation) how you get more than half to want Union, get the more than half needed and then on the vote day, get such a huge swing the other way. . . .
When that happens it is because the bosses lied and told them how they'll close up, fire them, bankrupt and open next week as bla bla and hire others, or the many many other disgusting greedy lies the business owners usually do.
Including hiring union busting firms to come in and get everyone petrified, and what i have always said to my future Union members.
"im not hiring and spending thousands of dollars AGAINST you, or spending money better off split up amongst you all and given to you, instead the boss that says how much he respects and loves you all like family just hired "pricks and liars" union busting firm at 2k a day, and this is going to take atleast a month, so the boss who claims how important you are to him is throwing away atleast 40k to keep you as slaves, run you around the clock, interfere in your personal lives by a constant changing start time, making there own OT rules, disciplinary rules and even discriminate.
See the employees at target that voted this down, they passed up having a more steady, normal life, better benefits, better pay. . . . and the company didn't pull some unfair bs, lol imagine that
We also have employment opportunities, a more resonable cost of living and some great state agency's that ensure companies are in compliance. We also have a state run retirement system that is one of the best managed in the country. You would also find that the poorest state have typically had an agrarian economy without alot of diversity in industries. ...
To each it's own..
The state agencys are the only people being treated fairly.
Wanna come and see what is the real world, wanna see how many companies are treating there employees unfairly and NOT A SINGLE agency is doing a damned thing about.
You better open the door you're locked in behind and venture out past that one block you seem to only know so well, in this state the bs going on as for labor rights i can't keep up with.
If the unions are as good as you say they are, why has union membership been in a steady decline since the 80's?
While I've never been part of a union, I don't feel there is anyone out there that can do anything that I cannot do myself. I certainly do not need someone to speak for me to get better wages, etc.
While it certainly sounds like Target might have used some unfair tactics to get the employees to reject the union vote, the vote was still rejected.
And really, was the tactics they used any different then any type of political vote you see? Most of the political elections we have had, have votes cast off of fear and lies that the politicians tell.
Union membership has been in decline for a variety of reasons but most importantly because most union jobs were in manufacturing and globalization has shipped those jobs overseas. The service industry that rose to take its place has proven remarkably resistant to unionization. Wal-Mart and its ilk depend on a combination of cheap imports and treating their workers poorly in order to profit and as such, as LIMA can probably tell you, there is an entire industry devoted to preventing work forces from unionizing. That, and governments in nearly half of the US have severely weakened unions by instituting right-to-work laws.
I'm happy that your job situation is such that you can be your own island - but most likely you don't work in the type of job where a union would be useful. People working in lower-end positions like in a factory, working a register, etc. don't have negotiating power with management unless they are able to organize and do so en mass. And rest assured, a lot of the benefits you enjoy transparently were fought for and won by unions. Their continued presence helps keep management from regressing. If you think that can't happen, look into how meat processing facilities, farms, etc. - where there are frequently no unions - treat their employees. It's already happening.
Status:
"Let this year be over..."
(set 19 days ago)
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,219 posts, read 17,085,392 times
Reputation: 15538
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIMA
The state agencys are the only people being treated fairly.
Wanna come and see what is the real world, wanna see how many companies are treating there employees unfairly and NOT A SINGLE agency is doing a damned thing about.
You better open the door you're locked in behind and venture out past that one block you seem to only know so well, in this state the bs going on as for labor rights i can't keep up with.
.
You may be right, unions were created because of the abuses of industry. The problem is over the years too many have become corrupt losing focus on the purpose they are supposed to serve. I have lived all over the country with the military and have see both sides of the "right to work state" as well as the "pro union state". When the regions economics started to dip the unions only concern seem to be saving their position all others can be sacrificed.
Maybe NY would benifit by cleaning house on their agency's and only keeping those that serve a purpose??
If the unions are as good as you say they are, why has union membership been in a steady decline since the 80's?
While I've never been part of a union, I don't feel there is anyone out there that can do anything that I cannot do myself. I certainly do not need someone to speak for me to get better wages, etc.
While it certainly sounds like Target might have used some unfair tactics to get the employees to reject the union vote, the vote was still rejected.
And really, was the tactics they used any different then any type of political vote you see? Most of the political elections we have had, have votes cast off of fear and lies that the politicians tell.
Teamsters went from 1.2 million to 1.7 million, i don't know where you see that as a decline. . . Some unions have lost membership, but it's not from people not wanting union representation, from corporate sending jobs out of country
While you feel you MAY be able to get better wages and talk a better game at bargaining for benefits and other work place standards, i highly doubt you have, you are easily terminated when you open your mouth about a concern the boss doesn't want to deal with and YOU have nothing or no one to keep that from happening.
Union membership has been in decline for a variety of reasons but most importantly because most union jobs were in manufacturing and globalization has shipped those jobs overseas. The service industry that rose to take its place has proven remarkably resistant to unionization. Wal-Mart and its ilk depend on a combination of cheap imports and treating their workers poorly in order to profit and as such, as LIMA can probably tell you, there is an entire industry devoted to preventing work forces from unionizing. That, and governments in nearly half of the US have severely weakened unions by instituting right-to-work laws.
I'm happy that your job situation is such that you can be your own island - but most likely you don't work in the type of job where a union would be useful. People working in lower-end positions like in a factory, working a register, etc. don't have negotiating power with management unless they are able to organize and do so en mass. And rest assured, a lot of the benefits you enjoy transparently were fought for and won by unions. Their continued presence helps keep management from regressing. If you think that can't happen, look into how meat processing facilities, farms, etc. - where there are frequently no unions - treat their employees. It's already happening.
How many employees does Wal Mart have? 2.1 million
How much did they make in 2010? Their profits were up 7% to 14.2 billion.
That's a big number, a very big number. But let's look a little further. What would it cost to give every employee in Wal Mart a raise of $1 per hour?
Well $1 x average work hours per year of 2,000 hours = $2,000/year raise
$2,000 x 2.1 million employees = 4.2 billion dollars
That's just to raise their salaries $1 per hour. Yeah, their margins are so paper thin to begin with that they would go the way of well known supermarket chains.
Oh, by the way. The only way that most unionized industries like airlines and steel have stayed in business is by going bankrupt and passing off their pension plans to the PBGC. How bout them unions choking off the very businesses that give them a livelihood.
Unions had a time and place. They are an antiquated system, just like work houses, and no longer serve a useful purpose in a global economy where jobs can easily be shipped off or replaced with technology if manpower gets too expensive.
Teamsters went from 1.2 million to 1.7 million, i don't know where you see that as a decline. . . Some unions have lost membership, but it's not from people not wanting union representation, from corporate sending jobs out of country
While you feel you MAY be able to get better wages and talk a better game at bargaining for benefits and other work place standards, i highly doubt you have, you are easily terminated when you open your mouth about a concern the boss doesn't want to deal with and YOU have nothing or no one to keep that from happening.
.
That sounds exactly like the type of fear tactics that Unions use to try and get people to sign their cards. Have you ever worked in retail? Do you realize just how hard it is to get fired? I've seen people do some pretty ridiculous things, and get placed on "final warnings".
Most retailers have an "Open Door Policy" because they want the employees to voice their concerns. Just because an employee voices a concern doesn't necessarily make their concern valid, but at least they are heard. I've spoken to numerous colleagues who have worked for unions, and they all were very similar in their responses as to how "useless" it was to pay dues to the union.
Unions have lost membership, because they are not needed any longer, plain and simple.
Understand, I'm only speaking from a retail standpoint, I don't have personal experience with outside of that sector. And you can look up the statistics anywhere to see the union decline in the public sector.
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