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Old 04-02-2013, 10:38 AM
 
3,931 posts, read 6,190,173 times
Reputation: 2030

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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiftymh View Post
Is it really racist to move out of high crime areas?
Of course not. Just as it's not facist ot want to live in low crime areas.
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:06 PM
 
1,005 posts, read 1,734,327 times
Reputation: 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
Why is it that there "is NEVER enough middle class blacks to take their place and fill the void"? We see plenty of EOP programs on college campuses, minority-based organizations to help wayward black youth get on the success track. There are politicians, physicians, scientists, astronauts, teachers -- and even a President who self-identifies as a black man. There are plenty of great role models to emulate.

We can point and say this town is segregated or that person is racist, but how can we expect to gain enough middle class blacks to take the place of the departing upper class blacks when the lower class remains entrenched in poverty either by lifestyle or bad decisions? When a young man sees a rap star who made it big, or decides to go for what appears to be easy money doing something nefarious, that white picket fence in front of a vanilla, cookie-cutter middle class suburban home isn't going to cut it.
Ok, you can take your ignorant, conservative talking points somewhere else. At no point did I ever insinuate that there are NEVER enough middle class blacks because the "man" is holding them down or whatever your conscience (guilty or not) is conjuring up. There are NEVER enough middle class blacks out of sheer demographics. There are literally five times as many non-Hispanic whites in this country as blacks. There as SIX times as many non-Hispanic whites in Nassau County than blacks and SEVEN times as many in Suffolk County. If all whites continue to move out of neighborhoods when the black percentage (for example), reaches 20%, then I would think all the blacks in Brooklyn could move further out onto Long Island and still not fill the vacancies.

So take race out of the equation. What happens to a town when most of the kids grow up and no new families move in? You have schools that cost millions of dollars to build and need to be filled to justify their existence. How do they become filled?

Hispanics Reviving Faded Towns on the Plains

The present in Kansas is the future of America. Non-Hispanic whites will continue to move out of areas and the vacancies will continue to be filled by a hodgepodge of lower income minorities. So sorry a boatload of wealthy Swedes didn't move into Uniondale to replace the working class white population. That is not reality. The reality is that the definition of race continues to shift. First, Northwestern European Americans fled the boroughs from waves of impending Southern Europeans and Jews. Then when those Americans became regarded as "white", whites fled Western Nassau due to waves of blacks moving in. Now whites are fleeing Hispanics because they are "illegal immigrants". The common theme is that white flight produces the urban and suburban wastelands than provide shelter to low incomes and crime. How funny that the millions of blacks and Hispanics that live in integrated middle to upper income communities somehow are doing just fine.

Because it is easy and essentially unfair, here is the city-data profile for Bowie, MD. It doesn't have a black majority (but at plurality at 48%). It is also very diverse, being 39% white, 6% Hispanic and 4% Asian. It is not a small city, with over 54,000 people. It is essentially the exact same size as Levittown. Not expecting you to know the history of Bowie, it is essentially a Levittown itself (just some tiny village until Levitt built Belair @ Bowie around it and then the town incorporated the Levittown to form the city of Bowie in 1963). Not only that, the communities are so similar Bowie High and Island Trees High oddly enough even have the same mascot (Bulldogs) and colors.

So how could Bowie be so diverse (and Levittown, NY not) but still be so prosperous? Actually somewhat moreso than Levittown, NY? Why is there so little crime in Bowie despite so many blacks? Why isn't it like East St. Louis? I thought minorities (I guess in this case blacks) had the crime and ruin gene? Why has Bowie only gotten more prosperous the blacker it has gotten?

Last edited by Steelers10; 04-02-2013 at 07:21 PM..
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Copiague, NY
1,500 posts, read 2,176,520 times
Reputation: 2371
Is the Pope Catholic?
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:23 PM
 
103 posts, read 106,859 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by nycbrooklyn View Post
SamanthaDoll make sure you have your armored escort the next time you drive through there. I don't know about your experience but I have yet to see that in either neighborhood that you mentioned.
Maybe you haven't checked all the porches then.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Copiague, NY
1,500 posts, read 2,176,520 times
Reputation: 2371
Perhaps we (or some of us), have blinded ourselves to social evolution, supply and demand, those who have and those who have not.
We'll banter demographics around, terms like racist, or that infamous `N' word, (Chris Rock and Dave Chapelle wouldn't have a life without that old
and beaten racial epithet! This world that we live in is about color indeed! Not white or black, but green, the color of money. Al Pachino put it succinctly:
`First you get the money, then you get the power'. Money equates to power, whether it is campaign dollars in an election, or the $700.00 hammer that
your Uncle Sam is buying with YOUR money. Believe in the golden rule: "He who has the gold, rules". Suppose you were born in a ghetto, an impoverished city,
so much a commonly growing scenario, your opportunities were clearly impeded and you had no other way of changing your lifestyle than `going with the flow'.
The flow is where the money is, thats the bottom line, and whether it means dealing drugs or being a well paid athlete, they'll go for the easiest money.

In a more direct response to the OP's query, I can only say that I feel that Long Island is as good a place to live as anywhere else. Yes, we're plagued with all
sorts of problems, but in today's world, who but the rich are not encumbered by the oncoming direction that America, (if not the world), is taking? You cannot
rightfully assign blame to any skin color, there is good and bad in all of us. If you need a scapegoat for your frustration, place it rightly, on basic social evolution,
which much like the laws of gravity, cannot be escaped or changed. Change, if it is to have real meaning, begins from within.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:17 AM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,285 posts, read 25,927,368 times
Reputation: 6913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelers10 View Post
Ok, you can take your ignorant, conservative talking points somewhere else. At no point did I ever insinuate that there are NEVER enough middle class blacks because the "man" is holding them down or whatever your conscience (guilty or not) is conjuring up. There are NEVER enough middle class blacks out of sheer demographics. There are literally five times as many non-Hispanic whites in this country as blacks. There as SIX times as many non-Hispanic whites in Nassau County than blacks and SEVEN times as many in Suffolk County. If all whites continue to move out of neighborhoods when the black percentage (for example), reaches 20%, then I would think all the blacks in Brooklyn could move further out onto Long Island and still not fill the vacancies.

So take race out of the equation. What happens to a town when most of the kids grow up and no new families move in? You have schools that cost millions of dollars to build and need to be filled to justify their existence. How do they become filled?

Hispanics Reviving Faded Towns on the Plains

The present in Kansas is the future of America. Non-Hispanic whites will continue to move out of areas and the vacancies will continue to be filled by a hodgepodge of lower income minorities. So sorry a boatload of wealthy Swedes didn't move into Uniondale to replace the working class white population. That is not reality. The reality is that the definition of race continues to shift. First, Northwestern European Americans fled the boroughs from waves of impending Southern Europeans and Jews. Then when those Americans became regarded as "white", whites fled Western Nassau due to waves of blacks moving in. Now whites are fleeing Hispanics because they are "illegal immigrants". The common theme is that white flight produces the urban and suburban wastelands than provide shelter to low incomes and crime. How funny that the millions of blacks and Hispanics that live in integrated middle to upper income communities somehow are doing just fine.

Because it is easy and essentially unfair, here is the city-data profile for Bowie, MD. It doesn't have a black majority (but at plurality at 48%). It is also very diverse, being 39% white, 6% Hispanic and 4% Asian. It is not a small city, with over 54,000 people. It is essentially the exact same size as Levittown. Not expecting you to know the history of Bowie, it is essentially a Levittown itself (just some tiny village until Levitt built Belair @ Bowie around it and then the town incorporated the Levittown to form the city of Bowie in 1963). Not only that, the communities are so similar Bowie High and Island Trees High oddly enough even have the same mascot (Bulldogs) and colors.

So how could Bowie be so diverse (and Levittown, NY not) but still be so prosperous? Actually somewhat moreso than Levittown, NY? Why is there so little crime in Bowie despite so many blacks? Why isn't it like East St. Louis? I thought minorities (I guess in this case blacks) had the crime and ruin gene? Why has Bowie only gotten more prosperous the blacker it has gotten?


Is Long Island Racist?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelers10 View Post
A few blacks move in. At 20% black population, "white flight" is triggered. There is ALWAYS a much larger white population than black population so when almost all of the whites move out of a neighborhood, there is NEVER enough middle class blacks to take their place and fill the void. As a result, property owners who hold out have no one to sell to and end up renting their properties to low income blacks as certainly no one else will rent or buy in the neighborhood. The higher income blacks that first moved into the neighborhood and can afford to do so then move to the new predominately-white neighborhood and the cycle starts all over again.
Get the big chip off your shoulder and READ what I wrote before you go all huffy and toss comments like 'ignorant'. Ironic, really, that you didn't fully comprehend what I had written before you spewed your hateful rhetoric. Please, go back and re-read it if necessary. No where did I infer, intone, imply that 'the man' is keeping the blacks down. In fact, if you read it carefully, you will see that I suggested they are doing it to themselves. Those who've sought to achieve and succeed have -- have they not? What can be done to grow the black middle class? That was my query. They must be doing something right in Bowie.

Believe me, the last thing I can be accused of is white guilt. I nearly fell off my chair laughing at your suggestion of such. If you knew anything of my history on Long Island, you would know that my mother, sister and I were the victims of anti-Hispanic prejudice in LEVITTOWN over four decades ago. It was so bad that the police had to be brought in. In fact, I've lost a few fake friends here because my son dates outside his race. The good news is that I've found them to be more the exception than the rule.

Whether Bowie is a prosperous yet diverse community is not important in terms of this thread; it is not going to change the fact that most people on Long Island tend to self segregate whether by color, creed, or profession. It does, however, warrant consideration for future development.
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Merrick, Long Island
82 posts, read 127,772 times
Reputation: 80
Of course Long Island is 'racist'. I just don't see that word as an insult anymore.
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:38 AM
 
1,005 posts, read 1,734,327 times
Reputation: 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
Is Long Island Racist?


Get the big chip off your shoulder and READ what I wrote before you go all huffy and toss comments like 'ignorant'. Ironic, really, that you didn't fully comprehend what I had written before you spewed your hateful rhetoric. Please, go back and re-read it if necessary. No where did I infer, intone, imply that 'the man' is keeping the blacks down. In fact, if you read it carefully, you will see that I suggested they are doing it to themselves. Those who've sought to achieve and succeed have -- have they not? What can be done to grow the black middle class? That was my query. They must be doing something right in Bowie.

Believe me, the last thing I can be accused of is white guilt. I nearly fell off my chair laughing at your suggestion of such. If you knew anything of my history on Long Island, you would know that my mother, sister and I were the victims of anti-Hispanic prejudice in LEVITTOWN over four decades ago. It was so bad that the police had to be brought in. In fact, I've lost a few fake friends here because my son dates outside his race. The good news is that I've found them to be more the exception than the rule.

Whether Bowie is a prosperous yet diverse community is not important in terms of this thread; it is not going to change the fact that most people on Long Island tend to self segregate whether by color, creed, or profession. It does, however, warrant consideration for future development.
Ok, I think I'll let you have the floor on this because you are clearly on a different plane of thinking and not particularly good at comprehension. It is cool because you are essentially agreeing with me. This discussion is about Long Island being racist. I believe multiple studies have been cited in this forum how Long Island was the 7th most segregated metro area in the United States as of 2011, which was down from 1st in 2002. These studies also identify the main source of segregation being a white vs. black residential division. So I think the OP is asking a valid question. Is Long Island racist? If so, is the racism decreasing? Is the intense segregation a product of racism?

So I have heard some silly roundabout explanations on this forum. The main one is that the segregation was not caused by racism, but that minorities simply prefer to live around one another. Ok, so minorities left neighborhoods in the boroughs where they were in the majority to move out to Long Island to white neighborhoods to chase whites away to form majority/minority communities out there? I've never quite understood that logic but I've already discussed how minority communities are formed. You would think minorities would be more integrated with whites on Long Island not less.

In your above post, you gave a very candid anecdote of the racism you experienced on Long Island. I actually feel bad for you. I've been more or less discussing institutional segregation but you have experienced overt racism. So I concede you are better equipped to make a case that Long Island is racist because I haven't (and won't) come out and say that Long Island is definitively racist, but their are some curious patterns of segregation that still persist.

But inexplicably you continue to beat this horse about blacks doing "it" to themselves. Doing what? Your argument is black kids want to be rappers and commit crimes so therefore they can't achieve? All I can offer to you is low income renters often don't make the best of neighbors because the population is much more transient. Yes there is a much greater preponderance of crime in lower income population, no question. But yo, there are 5 million African Americans with college degrees. Younger generations of blacks have higher levels of educational attainment than their parents. But all young black kids want to be rappers? What did their parents want to be Motown singers, their grandparents jazz musicians, and their great grandparents fiddlers? What does that have to do with anything?

As a matter of fact some of the highest income and best educated black populations in the country live in NYC metro. Ironically, Long Island has produced some of the most successful rappers and producers in the music industry. I could see why I black kid on Long Island would want to be in hip hop. Some of these artists recorded on Long Island in studios owned by whites. Should white Long Islanders not run studios where rappers can make tracks? Are the studio owners thugs too?

So, there are no possible parallels between Levittown, NY and Bowie, MD which is a "Levittown" itself? No irony present in the fact that of a Levittown in the suburbs of an equally prosperous major city, it is the one further south in a former segregated state that ended up to be more diverse? According to you "people" tend to "self-segregate". Why is Bowie (a Levittown), nowhere near as segregated? Why is Levittown still not particularly diverse but Hempstead, which has the same sized population as both Levittown, NY and Bowie, MD, essentially split 50/50 black/Hispanic?

Yes, Hempstead has far more crime than Levittown. I think you and others are making the case that is because parents of young minorities want to be around like individuals (self-segregate) so forget ethnicity, let's go live where the thugs live! But that doesn't hold water because Bowie (like Levittown, NY) has very little crime. So irrespective of the racial makeup of "Levittowns", something of the structure of these early suburbs has produced largely safe and fairly high-income communities despite their working class suburban origins. So I contend that their is something structural and institutional that created segregation on Long Island rather than the desire to "self-segregate" among the people in these communities.

In Hempstead, the between Clinton St. and Ramsen Ave. north of Fulton is mostly black. The surrounding neighborhoods on either side are racially diverse, but have about half the median family income. So in many of the neighborhoods, blacks and hispanics live interspersed with one another. You could say that income is a factor which is why Levittown is not diverse, but we're talking five miles away on basically the same street (Fulton/Hempstead Pike) in neighborhoods that have basically the same median family income and same median house value there is very little diversity if any at all? And we won't even get into Indians in Hicksville (once again same incomes/same housing values as Levittown).
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:10 AM
 
2,630 posts, read 3,788,298 times
Reputation: 1746
Ugh, same old silly talk. OF COURSE it's racist. Historically and demographically. The Island as middle class suburban settlement post WWII was created by the grandchildren and great grandchildren of NYC settlers and immigrants who were OPPOSED to fighting for the Union in the civil war and RESENTED giving their lives to abolish slavery. They hated black people then and at the 1st sign of affluence sought homes in areas logistically and financially out of reach of non-whites.
That's history. Like it or not, embarrassed by it or not. Things have changed as we evolved and demographics change and generations have more exposure to each other and breed understanding (or more hatred). Also, govt mandates for equality have imposed greater understanding and tolerance (more accurate word in some cases) and more resentment in some cases (Affirmative Action, etc). So there is plenty of change needed. Newer waves of immigrants with their own historical baggage. Changing demographics of middle and upper middle class and incusion. Racism is a constant and dynamic issue and will likely never go away completely. Short answer is that LI is a textbook example of systemic racism, white flight and passive/aggressive segregation. As LI gets poorer (and it IS), the issue will get more prevalent and at the same time, less pervasive.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:35 AM
 
56 posts, read 67,910 times
Reputation: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongoose65 View Post
Ugh, same old silly talk. OF COURSE it's racist. Historically and demographically. The Island as middle class suburban settlement post WWII was created by the grandchildren and great grandchildren of NYC settlers and immigrants who were OPPOSED to fighting for the Union in the civil war and RESENTED giving their lives to abolish slavery. They hated black people then and at the 1st sign of affluence sought homes in areas logistically and financially out of reach of non-whites.
That's history. Like it or not, embarrassed by it or not. Things have changed as we evolved and demographics change and generations have more exposure to each other and breed understanding (or more hatred). Also, govt mandates for equality have imposed greater understanding and tolerance (more accurate word in some cases) and more resentment in some cases (Affirmative Action, etc). So there is plenty of change needed. Newer waves of immigrants with their own historical baggage. Changing demographics of middle and upper middle class and incusion. Racism is a constant and dynamic issue and will likely never go away completely. Short answer is that LI is a textbook example of systemic racism, white flight and passive/aggressive segregation. As LI gets poorer (and it IS), the issue will get more prevalent and at the same time, less pervasive.

You REALLY believe that the Civil War was over slavery? You poor ignorant person. You do realize the Northern generals STILL held slaves even after the war? It was over state rights. South Carolina and southern states were importing/exporting and doing more business with Europe than with the north. When the union imposed tariffs, the south attempted to secede. In fact, Lincoln and the union only attempted to prevent slavery in new territories, not in established states. Lincoln and his cronies wanted to send the colored folk back to Africa. My family has been here since the beginning, I am a southerner - English descent WASP and what you say is so inaccurate. Do you whine about the enslavement of children in Africa by other black Africans? Or you just want to stick it to the white man?
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