Are the police on Long Island overpaid? (Nassau, Orleans: relocating, housing)

[Jrprofess]

Originally Posted by NY62

whatttt??????? the question was are they over paid. No? Your missing the point. Your saying the market cant bear a cops salary , correct? I was saying why not if we can bear everything else? answer that if you can. You are singleing out one group , when there are alot more. Why? Just answer that . We will go back to teachers can they do the jobs for one third less? I am sure they could . could all people in our school districts do there jobs for one third less? I am sure they could and I am sure there would be plenty of people wanting to scoff those jobs up for one third less.But the question is could they afford to get paid less? I dont think so.really school taxes are the majority of taxes so saveing a third of that would help more then a third of a cops salary, their salaries do not make up the rest of are taxes, it is a very small part.So if we are talking what the market can bear, the market can bear the cops salaries, they cant bear the school tax burden though.

Hey there 62,

I was just commenting on the topic thread of Suffolk cops. I do not disagree that there are other areas for debate in the region as it relates to taxes. I do respectfully disagree though that we would have any less qualified individuals applying for Suffolk jobs if the pay scale was the same as the city. I am NOT saying they do not deserve what they make, that is another debate. I simply think a guy early on in his police career, commuting into Brownsville might see a suffolk police opportunity at the same pay scale as very appealing. I don't think that is a crazy suggestion. As for the teacher debates (and I need to be careful, I married one), what blows people's minds from outside of the region is that Long Island pays MORE to their teachers than the city. For the same reason as I stated above about the police, I do not necessarily believe it is necessary given the choice of working within a suburban district or with the NYC department of education to pay our teachers more. Even scale would probably more than do it. Now do teachers deserve high salaries, that is for another time.

Extending olive branches,
JRP

[nancy thereader]

Constantly complaining about something where you have no ability to change the situation is very much like banging your head against the wall ... it feels real good when you stop. Try it.

Some old coins were stolen from my house and the kid who stole them was a cop's son and so I was "gently" persuaded not to do anything about it. It was such a frightening experience that it is another reason why I believe I must leave Long Island.

[NY62]

Originally Posted by Jrprofess

Hey there 62,

I was just commenting on the topic thread of Suffolk cops. I do not disagree that there are other areas for debate in the region as it relates to taxes. I do respectfully disagree though that we would have any less qualified individuals applying for Suffolk jobs if the pay scale was the same as the city. I am NOT saying they do not deserve what they make, that is another debate. I simply think a guy early on in his police career, commuting into Brownsville might see a suffolk police opportunity at the same pay scale as very appealing. I don't think that is a crazy suggestion. As for the teacher debates (and I need to be careful, I married one), what blows people's minds from outside of the region is that Long Island pays MORE to their teachers than the city. For the same reason as I stated above about the police, I do not necessarily believe it is necessary given the choice of working within a suburban district or with the NYC department of education to pay our teachers more. Even scale would probably more than do it. Now do teachers deserve high salaries, that is for another time.

Extending olive branches,
JRP

I was just saying that alot of city cops want suffolk jobs now and they cant get them. not enough to go around. I dont think you would get less either if they were paid less , but you cant cut salaries now, after it was given to them. As far as city and suffolk jobs (teachers, cops whatever) I cant explain why they make less. My feeling is they should be paid the same in the city. But really one has nothing to do with the other I guess.
Peace
just a friendly debate

[ogplife]

It is a sad sad day when I have to defend police officers. Growing up in NYC I had some really bad experiences with cops, but I have no choice as a public employee (probation officer). I would love to quote one person, but I can't. I read so much garbage through 21 pages I can't quote one person. People have some nerve questioning whether a police officer is overpaid. There are some occupations that you can't quantify in salary. Do firemen do anything most of the time, NO, but stepping into a burning building one time is the equivalent of a 100,000 salary. Same for a Police Officer putting his LIFE on the line. Teacher educating your child, PRICELESS. Let me teach you guys a secret anybody from the streets knows. The real gangsters don't shoot, it is the weak and scared that pop off quickly. Does Nassau compare to Compton, No, but all it takes is one bullet from a scared soul and thats it. You guys are talking about police forces like there is a market. Please understand that there is no market because this is public employment, end of the story. The market will always be unfair to public employees because we are dealing with the public's money. You know what lets call it a market. You do know that police officers are peace officers meaning they have an obligation to uphold the law at all times , you know meaning 24 hours. That would mean extra pay in some form if I'm not mistaken. It costs more to be a police officer. Do you think a police officer will have his family live in the worst neighborhoods where he has locked up a lot of people, of course not. The officer has to worry about the safety of his family. The same goes for schools, can't send a child to any school if I'm an officer, depending on my school district I may have to send them to a private school (although this probably doesn't apply to Nassau). I could continue to go on, but what I can say is this. It is very safe to work from a phone or computer for an entire day, but until you violate a client on probation or arrest someone and see that person on a Saturday afternoon 2 months later at a supermarket you will never understand what it is like to be a cop or law enforcement officer. Are you afraid in these instances usually not, but you never know what that person is thinking. You know that generally rule if you stay to yourself and mind your business you will be safe, well it does not apply to law enforcement officers, law enforcement officers are in the business of multiple people a day to help you be able to mind yours. The comparison to New York City workers is truly inept. New York is an overpopulated city that takes advantage of the competition and lowers the pay for all public employment. Find me a NYC employee that makes 100,000 period. Not many, outside of very high level executives, go to their website and look at current postings, future exams, upcoming exams. Please stop mentioning overtime because number one overtime is a function of poor management and it is by no means a line officers fault. The officer is only taking whats available. It is not like the officers hold people hostage for overtime. and in most cases its mandatory, you know not optional. Second I hate when people talk about overtime and relate that to salary (I will start a thread on Bus and finance about this). Overtime is exactly what it says, OVERTIME. 8 hours less with your wife, kids , friends or leisure time. Work a job that has a lot of mandatory overtime and lets see how you value overtime when you can't take your wife to a play you promised, miss your childs baseball game, or miss a big boxing match. Its a shame that you guys aren't proud you have a police force you pay well enough to hold accountable for protecting your city.

[clamboy]

Originally Posted by ogplife

It is a sad sad day when I have to defend police officers. Growing up in NYC I had some really bad experiences with cops, but I have no choice as a public employee (probation officer). I would love to quote one person, but I can't. I read so much garbage through 21 pages I can't quote one person. People have some nerve questioning whether a police officer is overpaid. There are some occupations that you can't quantify in salary. Do firemen do anything most of the time, NO, but stepping into a burning building one time is the equivalent of a 100,000 salary. Same for a Police Officer putting his LIFE on the line. Teacher educating your child, PRICELESS. Let me teach you guys a secret anybody from the streets knows. The real gangsters don't shoot, it is the weak and scared that pop off quickly. Does Nassau compare to Compton, No, but all it takes is one bullet from a scared soul and thats it. You guys are talking about police forces like there is a market. Please understand that there is no market because this is public employment, end of the story. The market will always be unfair to public employees because we are dealing with the public's money. You know what lets call it a market. You do know that police officers are peace officers meaning they have an obligation to uphold the law at all times , you know meaning 24 hours. That would mean extra pay in some form if I'm not mistaken. It costs more to be a police officer. Do you think a police officer will have his family live in the worst neighborhoods where he has locked up a lot of people, of course not. The officer has to worry about the safety of his family. The same goes for schools, can't send a child to any school if I'm an officer, depending on my school district I may have to send them to a private school (although this probably doesn't apply to Nassau). I could continue to go on, but what I can say is this. It is very safe to work from a phone or computer for an entire day, but until you violate a client on probation or arrest someone and see that person on a Saturday afternoon 2 months later at a supermarket you will never understand what it is like to be a cop or law enforcement officer. Are you afraid in these instances usually not, but you never know what that person is thinking. You know that generally rule if you stay to yourself and mind your business you will be safe, well it does not apply to law enforcement officers, law enforcement officers are in the business of multiple people a day to help you be able to mind yours. The comparison to New York City workers is truly inept. New York is an overpopulated city that takes advantage of the competition and lowers the pay for all public employment. Find me a NYC employee that makes 100,000 period. Not many, outside of very high level executives, go to their website and look at current postings, future exams, upcoming exams. Please stop mentioning overtime because number one overtime is a function of poor management and it is by no means a line officers fault. The officer is only taking whats available. It is not like the officers hold people hostage for overtime. and in most cases its mandatory, you know not optional. Second I hate when people talk about overtime and relate that to salary (I will start a thread on Bus and finance about this). Overtime is exactly what it says, OVERTIME. 8 hours less with your wife, kids , friends or leisure time. Work a job that has a lot of mandatory overtime and lets see how you value overtime when you can't take your wife to a play you promised, miss your childs baseball game, or miss a big boxing match. Its a shame that you guys aren't proud you have a police force you pay well enough to hold accountable for protecting your city.

What City are we protecting....The City of Glen Cove?
Do you even live on Long Island?

Are you comfotable with how your tax dollars are being spent?
It seems at this point at least half of us (or more) arent.

You make a lot of good points but your frame of reference seems a bit askew.

Youre trying to bring this back to the value of a human life.
You cant do that...its flawed logic.

One might argue that if the Garbage died on route that he may was underpaid as well.

The question remains, would the job still attract HS Grads/GEDs at 75k?

I believe it would.

C

[ogplife]

Originally Posted by clamboy

What City are we protecting....The City of Glen Cove?
Do you even live on Long Island?

Are you comfotable with how your tax dollars are being spent?
It seems at this point at least half of us (or more) arent.

You make a lot of good points but your frame of reference seems a bit askew.

Youre trying to bring this back to the value of a human life.
You cant do that...its flawed logic.

One might argue that if the Garbage died on route that he may was underpaid as well.

The question remains, would the job still attract HS Grads/GEDs at 75k?

I believe it would.

C

No I never actually lived on in Long Island, but I spent the last 24 years of my life Harlem before moving 10 months ago. I guess it is okay for many Long island police opponents to mention New York City cops and their pay, but when somebody outside of Long Island advocates for your officers then they get the you don't live here argument. Can't have it both ways. There is somebody that can do your job for much less too. Everybody is replaceable. Should they raise the standards to become a police officer? Yes. I think for that salary you should require at least an associates probably a bachelor's degree. That would eliminate a lot of people and stop them from taking a rediculous amount of applications for limited positions. Oh and yes I am comfortable with how my tax dollars are spent and I would not complain tyhe least bit if my taxes increased for any public safety officers.

[pdcnret]

Originally Posted by ogplife

It is a sad sad day when I have to defend police officers. Growing up in NYC I had some really bad experiences with cops, but I have no choice as a public employee (probation officer). I would love to quote one person, but I can't. I read so much garbage through 21 pages I can't quote one person. People have some nerve questioning whether a police officer is overpaid. There are some occupations that you can't quantify in salary. Do firemen do anything most of the time, NO, but stepping into a burning building one time is the equivalent of a 100,000 salary. Same for a Police Officer putting his LIFE on the line. Teacher educating your child, PRICELESS. Let me teach you guys a secret anybody from the streets knows. The real gangsters don't shoot, it is the weak and scared that pop off quickly. Does Nassau compare to Compton, No, but all it takes is one bullet from a scared soul and thats it. You guys are talking about police forces like there is a market. Please understand that there is no market because this is public employment, end of the story. The market will always be unfair to public employees because we are dealing with the public's money. You know what lets call it a market. You do know that police officers are peace officers meaning they have an obligation to uphold the law at all times , you know meaning 24 hours. That would mean extra pay in some form if I'm not mistaken. It costs more to be a police officer. Do you think a police officer will have his family live in the worst neighborhoods where he has locked up a lot of people, of course not. The officer has to worry about the safety of his family. The same goes for schools, can't send a child to any school if I'm an officer, depending on my school district I may have to send them to a private school (although this probably doesn't apply to Nassau). I could continue to go on, but what I can say is this. It is very safe to work from a phone or computer for an entire day, but until you violate a client on probation or arrest someone and see that person on a Saturday afternoon 2 months later at a supermarket you will never understand what it is like to be a cop or law enforcement officer. Are you afraid in these instances usually not, but you never know what that person is thinking. You know that generally rule if you stay to yourself and mind your business you will be safe, well it does not apply to law enforcement officers, law enforcement officers are in the business of multiple people a day to help you be able to mind yours. The comparison to New York City workers is truly inept. New York is an overpopulated city that takes advantage of the competition and lowers the pay for all public employment. Find me a NYC employee that makes 100,000 period. Not many, outside of very high level executives, go to their website and look at current postings, future exams, upcoming exams. Please stop mentioning overtime because number one overtime is a function of poor management and it is by no means a line officers fault. The officer is only taking whats available. It is not like the officers hold people hostage for overtime. and in most cases its mandatory, you know not optional. Second I hate when people talk about overtime and relate that to salary (I will start a thread on Bus and finance about this). Overtime is exactly what it says, OVERTIME. 8 hours less with your wife, kids , friends or leisure time. Work a job that has a lot of mandatory overtime and lets see how you value overtime when you can't take your wife to a play you promised, miss your childs baseball game, or miss a big boxing match. Its a shame that you guys aren't proud you have a police force you pay well enough to hold accountable for protecting your city.

Your observations are right on target. What most of the people beating up the cops on this thread don't understand is that being a cop is not simply a job -- it's a life. Most, if not all, departments require cops to be armed at all times and to take police action when necessary -- even while off duty. Then there's the holidays and weekends away from family, etc. And you're right, it gets a bit sticky when you run into someone in the grocery store that you arrested the week before. He's not going to be real happy to see you.

The part of this discussion that hasn't been brought up and that needs airing is that higher salaries for police inhibit systematic corruption in departments. That was a recommendation from the sixties when policing in America was under attack. Witness the New Orleans Police Department, previously one of the most corrupt departments in the country. Their pay was among the lowest -- and it showed. The bottom line is you get what you pay for. Higher salaries allow Long Island departments to get the best candidates (a competitive process based on written exams, physical and medical screening and thorough background checks). In return, Long Island residents get departments free of systematic corruption.

And while we're talking about taxes, take a good look at your tax bill. Your police taxes are significantly smaller than your school taxes. Cops making competitive salaries are not driving anybody off the Island. The issue of a 75k base salary is irrelevant (starting salary in Nassau, by the way, is about 34k). The NYC Police Department attracted only about 40% of its needed recruits to its last academy class. The reason: poor pay. NYC cops jump at the chance to take the Nassau and Suffolk tests. The reason: poor pay. Since local cops need to live locally, they also need to be able to afford to live here. They don't have the luxury of relocating their business or employment. The salaries of cops are what they are and no amount of complaining or polling is going to change that.

By the way, from the results above, it doesn't seem that there is an overwhelming majority in the "scientific" poll that believe cops are overpaid. Just bolsters my argument that a personal agenda is at work here.

[clamboy]

Originally Posted by pdcnret

Your observations are right on target. What most of the people beating up the cops on this thread don't understand is that being a cop is not simply a job -- it's a life. Most, if not all, departments require cops to be armed at all times and to take police action when necessary -- even while off duty. Then there's the holidays and weekends away from family, etc. And you're right, it gets a bit sticky when you run into someone in the grocery store that you arrested the week before. He's not going to be real happy to see you.

The part of this discussion that hasn't been brought up and that needs airing is that higher salaries for police inhibit systematic corruption in departments. That was a recommendation from the sixties when policing in America was under attack. Witness the New Orleans Police Department, previously one of the most corrupt departments in the country. Their pay was among the lowest -- and it showed. The bottom line is you get what you pay for. Higher salaries allow Long Island departments to get the best candidates (a competitive process based on written exams, physical and medical screening and thorough background checks). In return, Long Island residents get departments free of systematic corruption.

And while we're talking about taxes, take a good look at your tax bill. Your police taxes are significantly smaller than your school taxes. Cops making competitive salaries are not driving anybody off the Island. The issue of a 75k base salary is irrelevant (starting salary in Nassau, by the way, is about 34k). The NYC Police Department attracted only about 40% of its needed recruits to its last academy class. The reason: poor pay. NYC cops jump at the chance to take the Nassau and Suffolk tests. The reason: poor pay. Since local cops need to live locally, they also need to be able to afford to live here. They don't have the luxury of relocating their business or employment. The salaries of cops are what they are and no amount of complaining or polling is going to change that.

By the way, from the results above, it doesn't seem that there is an overwhelming majority in the "scientific" poll that believe cops are overpaid. Just bolsters my argument that a personal agenda is at work here.

Nor is there an overwhelming majority that believe cops arent.

No agenda

"Just the facts Ma'am"

C

[clamboy]

Originally Posted by ogplife

No I never actually lived on in Long Island, but I spent the last 24 years of my life Harlem before moving 10 months ago. I guess it is okay for many Long island police opponents to mention New York City cops and their pay, but when somebody outside of Long Island advocates for your officers then they get the you don't live here argument. Can't have it both ways. There is somebody that can do your job for much less too. Everybody is replaceable. Should they raise the standards to become a police officer? Yes. I think for that salary you should require at least an associates probably a bachelor's degree. That would eliminate a lot of people and stop them from taking a rediculous amount of applications for limited positions. Oh and yes I am comfortable with how my tax dollars are spent and I would not complain tyhe least bit if my taxes increased for any public safety officers.

Never lived on Long Island..nuff said.

I be "comfortable" too if I werent overpaying for my services.

Your tune would be different if you were paying upwards of 1k a month in property taxes.

C

[pdcnret]

Originally Posted by clamboy

Never lived on Long Island..nuff said.

I be "comfortable" too if I werent overpaying for my services.

Your tune would be different if you were paying upwards of 1k a month in property taxes.

C

And most of that 1k a month goes to your schools. How about complaining about teacher salaries or unnecessary school expenditures?

Maybe that hits too close to home.