Are the teachers on Long Island overpaid? (good schools, contractor)

[firefighter55]

Originally Posted by Jrprofess

I don't think people buy the whole "little Jimmy won't read if our contract is not renewed" anymore...just as people are rolling their eyes at the Suffolk PDs claims that LI will become Beirut if they did not pay the current salary levels. The real issue is voter apathy...which is true across the entire country, not just related to school board matters. Incumbents largely always get re-elected, entrenched politicians and municipal unions get renewed every time and the "apathetic majority" simply doesn't get out the vote.

Now I am married to one of these "evil" teachers but do agree with Dman's comments about salary levels. What I do not agree with is that LI teachers are actively fleecing LI....I do not believe a Long Island teacher applies for an open position with the thought "Ah Ha! Now I can work 3/4's of the year and really stick it to the taxpayer." These are typically people who love teaching young people, have graduate loans, and are trying to get into the best career situation possible. Which would mean getting paid the most for what you do, ideally in a nice district. All of us do that in our careers...and if you do not, then you are stupid.

Can we lower teacher salaries, admin costs and still get qualified talent in our schools...absolutely. Do we need to lower taxes, absolutely. I just get off the train when the discussion turns to demonizing teachers.

I totally agree here. People who say "teaching is easy" or a "cake job" are ignorant. Teachers are not the enemy here (neither are the cops), but the fact is both groups are making out like bandits when majority of the tax payers that support their salaries are having to pinch pennies. Teachers and cops perform a noble service and should be compensated fairly based on their level of education, skills, and the availability of qualified individuals to perform those jobs. Unfortunately, the unions and the taylor law have stacked the deck against the tax payers and now you have the situation we have. It takes away from the great job that these folks do on a daily basis.

[azzurrony]

Originally Posted by BigMike50

[/u]

Of course ! That's their jobs. I agree 100% but you have to pay more because it cost more to live. How would you get by on New Orleans PD salary of 30 k on the Island

People that lived else where would understand it a lot more, like you and I have

BigMike...of course they should be paid more, but 3 and 4 times more?

[firefighter55]

Originally Posted by BigMike50

[/u]

Of course ! That's their jobs. I agree 100% but you have to pay more because it cost more to live. How would you get by on New Orleans PD salary of 30 k on the Island

People that lived else where would understand it a lot more, like you and I have

Big Mike, the whole point of the "what would you make" thread was to show that the cost of living differential isn't as large in the private sector, meaning that if police and teachers can get by on the lower salaries relative to private sector in other parts of the country, why do they need higher salaries relative to the private sector here on LI to get by?

[dman72]

Originally Posted by vlorak

BUt we don't have the best teachers nor best performing school districts. we pay for beaches with our taxes, and then we pay some more daily when we go to the beach. same thing for parks. so tell your friends they're living in OZ.

We do have very high performing PUBLIC OPEN ADMISSION school districts on Long Island..every attempt by people to paint it otherwise ends up with them putting up lists of specialty high schools that let in 10% of students in a given area. Let's not go down that road again.

That doesn't mean there isn't an argument to be made that we don't need to pay teachers as much as they are being paid to have good schools. However, going with the "LI schools suck" argument as a justification for cutting teachers comp is a dead on arrival and indicates that the person authoring it is lying, distorting information, misinterpreting information, or doesn't know what they are talking about. Sorry, that's the truth.

[firefighter55]

Originally Posted by dman72

We do have very high performing PUBLIC OPEN ADMISSION school districts on Long Island..every attempt by people to paint it otherwise ends up with them putting up lists of specialty high schools that let in 10% of students in a given area. Let's not go down that road again.

That doesn't mean there isn't an argument to be made that we don't need to pay teachers as much as they are being paid to have good schools. However, going with the "LI schools suck" argument as a justification for cutting teachers comp is a dead on arrival and indicates that the person authoring it is lying, distorting information, misinterpreting information, or doesn't know what they are talking about. Sorry, that's the truth.

LI schools are top notch, there's no denying that.

The question is, are they top notch because of what the teacher's are paid, or are they top notch because of the favorable demographics?

I'd say the favorable demographics play a significantly larger role in the quality of our schools than teacher compensation. I point to the poor performing districts (wyandanch/hempstead etc) as examples, since their teachers are paid just as well (if not better in some cases).

[BigMike50]

Originally Posted by azzurrony

BigMike...of course they should be paid more, but 3 and 4 times more?

Unfortunately a home costs 4-5x more on the Island...your biggest expense.
Can you buy a new 5,000 sqf home on an acre for 290,000 on the island? Believe me it all almost equals out......teacher and cops here are middle class just like everywhere else.

[firefighter55]

Originally Posted by BigMike50

Unfortunately a home costs 4-5x more on the Island...your biggest expense.
Can you buy a new 5,000 sqf home on an acre for 290,000 on the island? Believe me it all almost equals out......teacher and cops here are middle class just like everywhere else.

Teachers and in particular, cops are doing much better than the average LIer. It doesn't average out - the LI cost of living increase for private sector jobs is 10-20%.... the cop/teacher cost of living increase on LI is 50-60%. You just don't get it.

[dman72]

Originally Posted by firefighter55

Teachers and in particular, cops are doing much better than the average LIer. It doesn't average out - the LI cost of living increase for private sector jobs is 10-20%.... the cop/teacher cost of living increase on LI is 50-60%. You just don't get it.

That's the thing..the ACTUAL cost of living really is 50% higher here, but that seems to only affect public workers salaries, thereby exacerbating the problem because taxes pay for those salaries and you have a snowballing effect.

[Jrprofess]

Originally Posted by azzurrony

Jrprofess,

I never said teachers have a malevolent and intentional plan to fleece taxpayers. Nonetheless, taxpayers are getting fleeced. I think teachers are the beneficiaries of aggressive unions and corrupt politicians. <- I am not in a union, in fact my job in some ways is to prevent them, but a unions role is to be aggressive on behalf of their members. I would expect them to be aggressive. It is why they exist. And I disagree with the corrupt politician stance...I doubt teachers unions are paying off politicos...The school boards simply do nothing come contract renewal. That is much different. That is what I meant by demonizing teachers...I do not believe there is a vast deceptive conspiracy to keep the gravy train rolling. They simply renegotiate, and the appointees do little to amend the new contracts or try and strongarm the unions for changes. But corrupt politicians, that is too much of a leap.

Of course most teachers are good people and want to help kids learn. I have them in my family. However, you can be certain that they FULLY understand that LI is a gravy train. These aren't people who are actively looking to teach in the inner-city and benefit mankind simply out of benevolence. These are good people who also know they stand to make some great compensation coming here. <--I agree, but so what? Don't we all try and do this? You are indirectly knocking teachers for trying to get paid the most they possibly can in their chosen field. And you agree that most teachers are good people. What is wrong with that??? Your comments are contradictory. I agree with the stance on teacher salaries, you can certainly get the same level applicants at 20% less salary, I simply do not agree with the negative tone taken toward our teachers. They are two different issues

There is no way around it. Money and benefits are a huge factor in their decision, and they are fully aware of the cost it imposes on local taxpayers when they join. <- No offense but you are stretching a bit here. You are putting the fiscal weight of property taxes on the young teacher who lands a job in Seaford schools (for example). I do not think they pause and think for a moment, hmmm, what is my acceptance of this history teacher vacancy doing to the local taxpaper...?? They are just taking a job.

Comments above

[firefighter55]

Originally Posted by Jrprofess

Comments above

I think azzurony's point is that if you talk to most any teacher openly and honestly about their job on LI, they realize they have a great gig. I think it's known as a great job going in since they are so difficult to get.