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Unread 02-18-2010, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
15,152 posts, read 14,236,011 times
Reputation: 6035
Quote:
Originally Posted by firefighter55 View Post
Big Mike, the whole point of the "what would you make" thread was to show that the cost of living differential isn't as large in the private sector, meaning that if police and teachers can get by on the lower salaries relative to private sector in other parts of the country, why do they need higher salaries relative to the private sector here on LI to get by?
Good point. Let's see if you get an answer to this post.

 
Unread 02-18-2010, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Wallens Ridge
3,049 posts, read 2,109,091 times
Reputation: 17128
Quote:
Originally Posted by firefighter55 View Post
Big Mike, the whole point of the "what would you make" thread was to show that the cost of living differential isn't as large in the private sector, meaning that if police and teachers can get by on the lower salaries relative to private sector in other parts of the country, why do they need higher salaries relative to the private sector here on LI to get by?
I need more info than this How much do they make in the PRIVATE SECTOR? I ask what you did and you won't answer me Are we talking about Doctors or busboys? Who are we comparing the teachers/cops salaries againts? I know some people that make 8 $ and hour and some making 750K a year all I know is it costs a lot more to live on Long Island than most places.....and that's a fact!
 
Unread 02-18-2010, 01:33 PM
 
953 posts, read 1,255,408 times
Reputation: 331
Jrprofessor,

Do you really expect us to believe that the elected officials who approved these contracts, which have all but doubled our taxes in the last few years, are not corrupt? They are the definition of corrupt. They are not acting in the best interests of those they represent. Instead, they cater to the unions because the unions are incredibly well organized and turn out the vote everytime. It is in their best interest to reward the unions so they continue getting elected. That's why they simply rubber stamp contracts that are borderline theft. Have you seen the details of these contracts? They rob from the many to give to the few. They are the Reverse Robin Hood of the public sector. Under your theory, these politicians are simply absent and have no clue what they are voting on. Come on...they know exactly what they are doing.

Teachers can be good people and still be greedy. Those two elements are not mutually exclusive. Why is that so hard to understand? There is no other term to use other than greed. When so many of their fellow taxpayers are struggling, the teachers allow their unions to keep pushing for these salaries and benefits. It's greed. Sure, everyone is susceptible to this. Sure, everyone is self-interested at times. But, that doesn't mean this is right.

So, you are saying that teachers who know Long Island, who researched the area and will probably be living in our community, have no clue that our school taxes are so high here? Even if that were true, which I disagree with, then what about the active teachers who have lived and worked here a long time. Surely, they must know the fiscal pressures on Long Island each time contract time comes up?
 
Unread 02-18-2010, 01:36 PM
 
490 posts, read 663,054 times
Reputation: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72 View Post
We do have very high performing PUBLIC OPEN ADMISSION school districts on Long Island..every attempt by people to paint it otherwise ends up with them putting up lists of specialty high schools that let in 10% of students in a given area. Let's not go down that road again.

That doesn't mean there isn't an argument to be made that we don't need to pay teachers as much as they are being paid to have good schools. However, going with the "LI schools suck" argument as a justification for cutting teachers comp is a dead on arrival and indicates that the person authoring it is lying, distorting information, misinterpreting information, or doesn't know what they are talking about. Sorry, that's the truth.
I actually don't care if they are overpaid or underpaid. My concern for the money they get paid, they do not perform. My other concern is everyone gets into teaching because of how much it pays in the island. I do not want every joe schmo becoming a teacher, and then becoming impossible to get rid of them. Teaching should be a calling, a passion, only a handful of people have that passion. I have seen teachers who hate teaching yet they do it for the money. And the chance of any of those teachers becoming my kids' teacher? NO. I'd rather see them get a pay cut, and wait only for true teachers to stick around.
 
Unread 02-18-2010, 01:51 PM
 
7,098 posts, read 6,714,374 times
Reputation: 2647
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlorak View Post
I actually don't care if they are overpaid or underpaid. My concern for the money they get paid, they do not perform. My other concern is everyone gets into teaching because of how much it pays in the island. I do not want every joe schmo becoming a teacher, and then becoming impossible to get rid of them. Teaching should be a calling, a passion, only a handful of people have that passion. I have seen teachers who hate teaching yet they do it for the money. And the chance of any of those teachers becoming my kids' teacher? NO. I'd rather see them get a pay cut, and wait only for true teachers to stick around.

A bunch of anecdotes and sweeping generalizations do not a good post make.
 
Unread 02-18-2010, 02:01 PM
 
7,098 posts, read 6,714,374 times
Reputation: 2647
Quote:
Originally Posted by azzurrony View Post
Jrprofessor,

Do you really expect us to believe that the elected officials who approved these contracts, which have all but doubled our taxes in the last few years, are not corrupt? They are the definition of corrupt. They are not acting in the best interests of those they represent. Instead, they cater to the unions because the unions are incredibly well organized and turn out the vote everytime. It is in their best interest to reward the unions so they continue getting elected. That's why they simply rubber stamp contracts that are borderline theft. Have you seen the details of these contracts? They rob from the many to give to the few. They are the Reverse Robin Hood of the public sector. Under your theory, these politicians are simply absent and have no clue what they are voting on. Come on...they know exactly what they are doing.

Teachers can be good people and still be greedy. Those two elements are not mutually exclusive. Why is that so hard to understand? There is no other term to use other than greed. When so many of their fellow taxpayers are struggling, the teachers allow their unions to keep pushing for these salaries and benefits. It's greed. Sure, everyone is susceptible to this. Sure, everyone is self-interested at times. But, that doesn't mean this is right.

So, you are saying that teachers who know Long Island, who researched the area and will probably be living in our community, have no clue that our school taxes are so high here? Even if that were true, which I disagree with, then what about the active teachers who have lived and worked here a long time. Surely, they must know the fiscal pressures on Long Island each time contract time comes up?
Pulling scams is a way of life around here, from the car mechanic charging you to fix something that isn't broken, to the contractor cutting corners, to the wannabe boiler room stock trader.

That means that the desire to get one step ahead of the next guy is not lost on cops and teachers. These people know they have a sweet deal, you think they are going to admit it and give you ammunition against them?

The PBA's and the teachers unions only reason to exist is to keep their membership happy, ie paid, and the way you do that is the wine and dine local polls or school board members, and they do it in spades. The head of the PBA hob-nobs with the county executive as much as he can, why do you think these contracts got so bloated in the first place? Why do you think the vitriol against Levy from the cops is so haywire?

Likewise with the School boards. While you weren't looking, someone was getting a favor done for them to slip through step increases. That's politics. The people with something to gain from the school board are up their butts all the time, while the taxpayer whines every once in awhile, but they don't vote in the numbers needed to change things.

The effects of "special interests" on politics are vast, from the local town to the Feds, from the teachers union lobbying the school board to the defense contractor lobbying Congress. It's called "disproportionate influence".
 
Unread 02-18-2010, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Wallens Ridge
3,049 posts, read 2,109,091 times
Reputation: 17128
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72 View Post
A bunch of anecdotes and sweeping generalizations do not a good post make.
That won't even sound right as a Chinese proverb
 
Unread 02-18-2010, 02:10 PM
 
953 posts, read 1,255,408 times
Reputation: 331
Dman,

I agree 100%. That's exactly what's going on.
 
Unread 02-18-2010, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Wallens Ridge
3,049 posts, read 2,109,091 times
Reputation: 17128
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72 View Post
Pulling scams is a way of life around here, from the car mechanic charging you to fix something that isn't broken, to the contractor cutting corners, to the wannabe boiler room stock trader.

That means that the desire to get one step ahead of the next guy is not lost on cops and teachers. These people know they have a sweet deal, you think they are going to admit it and give you ammunition against them?

The PBA's and the teachers unions only reason to exist is to keep their membership happy, ie paid, and the way you do that is the wine and dine local polls or school board members, and they do it in spades. The head of the PBA hob-nobs with the county executive as much as he can, why do you think these contracts got so bloated in the first place? Why do you think the vitriol against Levy from the cops is so haywire?

Likewise with the School boards. While you weren't looking, someone was getting a favor done for them to slip through step increases. That's politics. The people with something to gain from the school board are up their butts all the time, while the taxpayer whines every once in awhile, but they don't vote in the numbers needed to change things.

The effects of "special interests" on politics are vast, from the local town to the Feds, from the teachers union lobbying the school board to the defense contractor lobbying Congress. It's called "disproportionate influence".
Good post
 
Unread 02-18-2010, 02:21 PM
 
Location: In my house
2,870 posts, read 4,210,790 times
Reputation: 964
Every last thing on this Island relates to money.
That's all that matters here, money and status.
Morals are all but extinct.
Some people pretend to care, but it's all part of a personal agenda. That's just the way it is. I don't care if you're a cop, teacher, doctor, lawyer, whatever.
It's all about money. Money money money and screw everyone else.
Me me me. Mine mine mine.
Nobody gives a damn anymore.
The Island has become a mecca for arrogance and self.
Every other person is convinced they are better, and more important then the next.
This is very evident in the school systems.
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