Occupy Wall Street/Occupy Long Island? (Clinton, Accord: assessment, stats, food)

[MikeyKid]

Originally Posted by Walter Greenspan

That's what the MSM wants, not what the small gov't, less gov't spending folks want.

How about sharing with us what candidate you believe in... something definitive instead of generic tomato throwing ideology. Talk about what that candidate will do to make a difference. I don't believe you have one and would rather stick to the general anti-Obama rhetoric fed by the same MSM you think wants Romney. Seriously - FOX News and conservative radio (as 2 simple examples) aren't the MSM?

At the end of the day you have to know the daunting task you have in front of you with regards to "smaller" and "less". You can't reverse decades of bigger govt and deficit spending (by BOTH parties) at the flip of a switch.

[Jetties]

I finally made it down there today to check out the "Occupation". It basically looks like a Phish show tailgate.

[Walter Greenspan]

Originally Posted by MikeyKid

You can't reverse decades of bigger govt and deficit spending (by BOTH parties) at the flip of a switch.

It has to begin sometime before it implodes.

[Yzette]

Originally Posted by MikeyKid

You seem to be happy with the status quo - which is your right. But poking fun at people standing up for something they believe in while you go through the motions of sucking the system, doesn't justify your existence and invalidate theirs.

What do you expect from people who bash certain civil service employees, yet don't get off their own keisters to affect change?

If they had any smarts or ability, they would have done for those beliefs what the occupiers are doing for theirs. Something tells me none of them will confront the PBA at the forthcoming rally against Mangano. Instead, they'll be sitting in the comfort of their offices and loading up City-Data on company time so they can make their utterly useless and humorless one-liners that no one even pays attention to anymore.

Except you and a couple others, Mikey. Why bother? It's your right to engage, of course, but honestly? The ignore list is your friend.

[Pequaman]

Originally Posted by Interlude

There's really no other way to deal with you, Walter, since your usual tactic is to simply spew your neo-liberal garbage, and then refuse to address any points, dubbing your would-be opponents "secular-progressive-liberal Left" because, I guess, you once met someone with progressive viewpoints that was dumb, and so all of them must be.

I'm going to side with Walter here. People are defeated when they attack the person, ahem, and not the idea. You lose when you resort to this.

Originally Posted by Yzette

...or socialists.



There is a purpose, and there are core beliefs in the movement:
[b]

2. Promote and implement campaign finance reform so that politicians cannot be bought and paid for by special interests. Personally, I feel that message is a bit diluted by the involvement of unions, as unions, by their very nature, are special interests. However, their involvement does serve a purpose in that they stand up against and protect people from exploitation by their employers, and one of Wall Street's sins is to foster, enhance, and contribute to that exploitation.

You've got some good ideas here but I just want to focus on this one for right now as my time is limited here. The whole idea of unions getting involved in this is very hypocritical in my opinion. They act as corporations as well...huge corporations that only seek to protect themselves and their members. They do this by exploiting their employers... which happens to be us, the regular non-union taxpayer. I'm not buying their whole involvement in this at all.

"TAKE MONEY OUT OF POLITICS" should be the #1 sole idea behind this movement. And that works directly against the unions who have been buying politicians for the last 20-30 years. As a result this is why our taxes are sky high especially on LI... we have been exploited by overbearing, greedy unions and fly-by-night sell out politicians since, forever. That needs to change.

[LongIslandCitizen]

Originally Posted by Yzette

...or socialists.



There is a purpose, and there are core beliefs in the movement:

1. Divest corporations of their power over the electoral process. This includes getting rid of the insane notion that corporations are individuals. Someone else said this, but I agree with it: I'll believe a corporation is a person when Texas executes one.

2. Promote and implement campaign finance reform so that politicians cannot be bought and paid for by special interests. Personally, I feel that message is a bit diluted by the involvement of unions, as unions, by their very nature, are special interests. However, their involvement does serve a purpose in that they stand up against and protect people from exploitation by their employers, and one of Wall Street's sins is to foster, enhance, and contribute to that exploitation.

3. Stop shipping American jobs overseas. Let's get real: The companies that do this don't do it so they can offer products to the masses at lower prices. They do it to profit the people at the top. The money they don't spend on health insurance, benefits, and fair wages, they keep to themselves. Not only is outsourcing detrimental to the nation as a whole in that it is destroying the working class, it is self-defeating, too: Sooner or later, no one is going to have any money left to buy their products.

4. Punish the white collar criminals who stole from the public and took taxpayer money for their bailouts. The entire upper echelon of Goldman Sachs should be in jail. Ditto the thugs at Bank of America, Citibank, and every other major bank and firm that broke laws. And the punishment should not be fines, but jail time, although they should be forced to pay out of their own pockets, as well.

5. Reinstate Glass-Steagall. Wall Street has shown us how well it can self-police and avoid conflicts of interest. There is no way a depository institution should be allowed to gamble away the citizens' savings on commercial crap shoots. Deregulation is a giant fail.

There are other side interests, like affordable education, affordable health care, and so on, that funnel into this, but in terms of Wall Street and what it stands for, the five items above are why people are occupying.

Just that you'd never hear that from the mainstream media.

Great points Yzette as usual and I actually agree with most of your points but that really isn't that much different then what the Tea Party is also protesting about. I'm not sticking up for them but most Americans are against greed and corruption, shipping jobs overseas, bailouts, finance reform etc...
But the democrats and liberals appear to be taking advantage of these people.

[Interlude]

Originally Posted by Pequaman

I'm going to side with Walter here. People are defeated when they attack the person, ahem, and not the idea. You lose when you resort to this.

I'm not calling him a poopy head, I'm pointing out that he comes into threads, makes a one-liner, and then doesn't back anything up if you try to debate with him. Last time I called him out on it, he said something to the effect of "I don't debate with communists". Welp. What can you do.

"TAKE MONEY OUT OF POLITICS" should be the #1 sole idea behind this movement. And that works directly against the unions who have been buying politicians for the last 20-30 years. As a result this is why our taxes are sky high especially on LI... we have been exploited by overbearing, greedy unions and fly-by-night sell out politicians since, forever. That needs to change.

This is basically only a problem on Long Island (and a few other parts of NY like Westchester). Nationwide, only 13% of people are unionized. To believe that is why taxes are "so high" is as wrong as blaming it entirely on Wall Street.

But you are correct, that should be the message - get the money out entirely. All elections should be publicly funded, with no private contributions allowed, end of story.

By the way, taxes are not "so high" (aside from LI property taxes). Nationwide, they're at historic lows, and worldwide among the lowest in the first world.

[MikeyKid]

Originally Posted by Walter Greenspan

It has to begin sometime before it implodes.

On this we agree... yet, we seem to disagree on how that is accomplished.

As stated, please continue on with your generic slams of the current administration with no real logistical ideas to improve things or a viable candidate that will do anything different then the previous administrations. We'll both watch with interest as the keystone cops come up with someone to lose in 2012.

Then you can spend 4 more years chanting small and less.

Originally Posted by Yzette

<snip>

Except you and a couple others, Mikey. Why bother? It's your right to engage, of course, but honestly? The ignore list is your friend.

I guess in the end this is just a fun distraction. Ignore is something I've never used because the more heated the debate, the more I love participating. I'd hate to miss a wonderful nugget of wisdom from the brain trust!

Originally Posted by Pequaman

I'm going to side with Walter here. People are defeated when they attack the person, ahem, and not the idea. You lose when you resort to this.

<snip>

Agree with Walter and say not to attack the person. WOW - that's all he does when it comes to political discussions.

Talk about an oxymoronic idea. LOL

[mongoose65]

Originally Posted by LongIslandCitizen

People are so susceptible to manipulation and deception. This whole thread makes me laugh out loud. People this is an upcoming election year and the democrats have finally put their collective heads together to counter the tea party movement. These poor souls are just pawns that believe in something but don't exactly know what. Any 2 cent politician can have thousands of Facebook groups created with a narrative and "purpose".

It also really wouldn't surprise me if this originated in the middle east but I'm going with the first explanation.

Wake up

Well that is the MOST naive post yet and my posts didn't support the tea party. To discount the anger at both parties and government size and ineptitude by the GROWING number of independents is just ignorance.

There has NEVER been a better time for a 3rd party but we do not have one that can come up with the financing of the big 2. The Tea Party is not a party, it is a Republican shill organization.

The anger and frustration, however are real and valid.

The "occupiers" in the post aren't much different in that they are also angry at govt ineffectualism. Just differ on policy.

[Walter Greenspan]

According to the ECONOMIST, Public-sector workers: (Government) workers of the world unite!

In the American private sector trade-union density (ie, the proportion of workers who belong to unions) has fallen from a third in 1979 to just 7% today.



There is one big exception to this story of decline, however: the public sector. In America it has increased over the same period from 11% to 36% (see chart). There are now more American workers in unions in the public sector (7.6m) than in the private sector (7.1m), although the private sector employs five times as many people. Union density is now higher in the public sector than it was in the private sector in its glory days, in the 1950s.